Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-05-2012, 04:03 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Drew Brees easily makes lesser players look better than Eli does, I dunno what he's getting at here. Shockey had a bad year with the Giants, then they traded him, and he got even more injured but played about the same here as he did there. Though we all know that no player has ever had to deal with a harder offense than Eli has.
So Drew Brees is an elite qb who makes the players around him better right?

So if Shockey, by your own admition, performed the same under Brees as he did with Eli, then what does that tell you?

Shouldn't he have performed BETTER under Brees if Brees does a better job of making the players around him better?

Oh right. I forgot. That can't be possible because it makes too much sense.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:04 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,093
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Ridiculous. You of all people should know better than that.

But I've heard your arguments for what makes a qb elite before, and it's laughable. Completely based on statistics.
Hahaha....and your argument for Eli is essentially the same one people make for Tim Tebow.

Eli is a much improved player, arguably top 5 QB. But he's not elite. Almost nobody outside of NY thinks that.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,093
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Right now the only QBs I would comfortably call elite are Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:08 PM    (permalink
Saints-Tigers
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,856
Reputation: 659348
Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i think the patriots offense, early in his career, was crap. and i think his defense was hamstrung at every conceivable opportunity. and you have no idea how much it hurt to type those two sentences. i think brady 'made' players like deion branch, david givens, et al.

whether he's better now or not, i think their offense is a worse fit for how he plays best (in spite of the genius of josh mcdaniels), and i think it was a poor fit even when he was setting records. but my stance on stats is well-known.


I think the case is very similar to Peyton Manning. It seems to me that the better blueprint to winning a superbowl is great defensive play, and having your QB only have to make the occasional big drive because you can count on your D to get stops. The Indy team that won the Superbowl was probably the weakest they had looked on offense in a long time.

Honestly, looking at the teams to win the Superbowl recently, the only ones to do it by way of dominant offense during the regular season and through the playoffs is the year the Saints won, and even then, we had a lot of big defensive plays help out.

The dominant offense and middling defense blueprint seems to bite people in the ass more often than having a dominant defense, mediocre offense but with a great QB.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
Saints-Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:10 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Hahaha....and your argument for Eli is essentially the same one people make for Tim Tebow.

Eli is a much improved player, arguably top 5 QB. But he's not elite. Almost nobody outside of NY thinks that.
Seriously? You're gonna compare Eli to Tebow?

I don't have to defend Eli anymore. I think he's done enough in his career to prove his worth.

But I guess throwing for 40 touchdowns is more important to some than leading your team to the game winning drive with the SB, playoffs, etc on the line.

This is why I rank guys like Roethlisberger way ahead of guys like Rivers. Empty stats don't mean ****.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:14 PM    (permalink
niel89
SuperBowl Prop Bet Winner
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 2nd deck at Stanford Stadium
Posts: 7,466
Reputation: 1651430
niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I feel like most of those Giants players that left were either old and out of their prime or injured by the time they left. Of course Shockey isn't going to be as effective when he is declining even if Brees is his QB.

I think some QBs can make their weapons around them better but its honestly one 3-4 guys who can do that. Just because you don't have that guy doesn't mean you are automatically discounted from winning a SB. Flacco doesn't elevate his weapons but now that he has some talent to throw to, I think he could take us all the way.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Don't be a stranger. Jordyzzzz would want you to stick around. ;o)

Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy
niel89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:16 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,093
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
But I guess throwing for 40 touchdowns is more important to some than leading your team to the game winning drive with the SB, playoffs, etc on the line.

This is why I rank guys like Roethlisberger way ahead of guys like Rivers. Empty stats don't mean ****.
Eli and Tebow: Just win games.

Cause that's all that matters, right?
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
Saints-Tigers
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,856
Reputation: 659348
Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Saints-Tigers is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

So what is more impressive, and who should ultimately be judged higher? Tom Brady in his record breaking year(possibly the best regular season ever, struggles in the superbowl) or Tom Brady in his early superbowls(Not dominant, but good production... followed up by good showings in the superbowl)..

I could see arguing for either, I personally think he was much more impressive in the record breaking year, and was a better player, and the **** hitting the fan is less his fault than it was for flaws in the blueprint.

My pet peeve is when people will flip flop depending on the player. I think Tom Brady over the last half of his career is very Peyton Manning like when you think about it. Dominant numbers, and the team is marred with playoff upsets, but how much do you place the blame on a QB that is carrying the team with huge point totals? In a 1 and done playoff system, their are bound to be slip ups.

/rant
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPER26 View Post
fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.
Saints-Tigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:21 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Eli and Tebow: Just win games.

Cause that's all that matters, right?
To compare their skill sets is laughable and you know it. Eli doesn't just win games. That's a clear discredit to his career, and what he does in this offense.

It's the same stupidity you hear when people say Troy Aikman wasn't a good qb bc he didn't throw a lot of touchdown passes.

Absolutely ridiculous. Some systems and teams are built to put up numbers. Others aren't. You don't base your argument soley on the quarterback's statistics.

Considering Eli played with the worst rush offense in the league last year, the 27th ranked defense, and the worst OL in the league in terms of hurries/pressures, I think doing what he did was pretty damn impressive.

But sure. Compare him to Tebow. Because that makes more sense.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:22 PM    (permalink
Diehard
Veteran
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,836
Reputation: 184401
Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Diehard is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
Eli and Tebow: Just win games.

Cause that's all that matters, right?
Eli: Just win Superbowls.

That is all that matters.
Diehard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:22 PM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: R4L 3:16 says I just whipped your ass
Posts: 12,707
Reputation: 2783873
Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

What was Archie thinking?? Elisha?
__________________

Props to BK for the sig
"Impulsive thinker, compulsive drinker, addict, half animal half man"
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's because we're the only animal capable of getting it from other animals. the day a goat can milk cows, it will.
Raiderz4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:24 PM    (permalink
SuperPacker
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: awkward
Posts: 10,476
Reputation: 2197079
SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SuperPacker is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
as a sidenote, i had no idea eli's real name is actually elisha. i thought that was just a lame slur people made up.
wow. mind = blown. poor eli. what sort of name is elisha?!
__________________



RIP themaninblack
SuperPacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:24 PM    (permalink
Jvig43
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dropping Brady Passes
Posts: 15,947
Reputation: 4511504
Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i disagree. a good qb plays well enough to win with a good team around him (let's say marc bulger). a great qb makes the offense better (philip rivers). an elite qb can take crap to the super bowl (early tom brady). it might be semantics, but i think there have been a lot of good qbs in nfl history. i think there are very few great and elite qbs in nfl history.
This is certainly far more present Brady than early my patriot hating friend. No way were we a SB caliber team last year.

Also, Eli manning, and I said it last year too (although to a lesser extent now without Manningham) has one of the most dynamic combos of wrs in the game right now. Steve smith hasn't done anything no, and Shokey is a bad example considering he was coming off multiple injuries and went to the Saints where no one man is the star receiving the ball.
__________________



Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD View Post
Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
Jvig43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:25 PM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 4,013
Reputation: 323867
abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.abaddon41_80 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I always see Deion Branch brought up in topics like this, discussing receivers being made by quarterbacks, but I don't understand it. His per game numbers for his first few years in Seattle were nearly identical to those of his previous three years in New England. He was actually averaging more yards/catch and more touchdowns/catch. He was just always injured in Seattle
abaddon41_80 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:26 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,093
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
To compare their skill sets is laughable and you know it. Eli doesn't just win games. That's a clear discredit to his career, and what he does in this offense.

It's the same stupidity you hear when people say Troy Aikman wasn't a good qb bc he didn't throw a lot of touchdown passes.

Absolutely ridiculous. Some systems and teams are built to put up numbers. Others aren't. You don't base your argument soley on the quarterback's statistics.

Considering Eli played with the worst rush offense in the league last year, the 27th ranked defense, and the worst OL in the league in terms of hurries/pressures, I think doing what he did was pretty damn impressive.

But sure. Compare him to Tebow. Because that makes more sense.
I'm mostly just mocking your ridiculous argument that somehow statistics are empty. Math isn't empty; it's a quantifiable reflection of things that actually happen. You would prefer to handpick things that you like, because you have an inherent bias in this argument (and anything to do with New York).

But, if you want to focus on schemes, the Giants must have a really bizarre one that forces Eli to throw so many interceptions and have a career completion % below 60%.

Eli has made some good throws (and been on the other end of some ridiculous catches) in high pressure moments. Good for him. But to focus entirely on that in some vain attempt to make Eli into something he isn't is the epitome of homerism.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:30 PM    (permalink
Jvig43
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dropping Brady Passes
Posts: 15,947
Reputation: 4511504
Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Jvig43 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i was honestly chalking up last year to a bad afc. i just don't think brady last year was the same brady, though again, i think you've completely gotten away from what he's really good at in your offense. or, i should say, you repeatedly get away from what he's really good at during games because your genius is an idiot.
Hmm elaborate. I would say last year was one of his best years, in fact I'd say the last two years were even better than his 2007 year based on how much he did with much weaker teams. Hes being asked to do more now because our defense can't hold guys to 10 points a game like they were doing pre 2005. At that point all we needed (although wasnt always the case) was for Brady to dink and dunk his way to long drives and let the D take care of the rest. But I am intrigued on what you mean by getting away from what were good at.
__________________



Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD View Post
Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
Jvig43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:37 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
I'm mostly just mocking your ridiculous argument that somehow statistics are empty. Math isn't empty; it's a quantifiable reflection of things that actually happen. You would prefer to handpick things that you like, because you have an inherent bias in this argument (and anything to do with New York).

But, if you want to focus on schemes, the Giants must have a really bizarre one that forces Eli to throw so many interceptions and have a career completion % below 60%.

Eli has made some good throws (and been on the other end of some ridiculous catches) in high pressure moments. Good for him. But to focus entirely on that in some vain attempt to make Eli into something he isn't is the epitome of homerism.
Completion percentage is overrated to begin with. Elway had a less than 60% completion percentage.

And in a choice route offense, I've said this for the past 4 years, you're gonna throw picks. These guys aren't robots, you're not going to read the defense the exact same way every time. When you run that type of scheme with that many choices, you get interceptions. It happens.

Eli doesn't even have terrible stats. His stats are fine. I don't get how we can use stats against him when he's put up solid numbers. And I have complete confidence that as long as he stays healthy, he'll continue to put up great numbers.

And we run for touchdowns. That's just how the offense is. Even with a terrible rush offense, we run for touchdowns. We run for the sake of running many times. That's just the offense, it is what it is.

And I'm perfectly fine with that. You can come into the Giants team forum any time and you'll see me say it time and time again, I could care less about Eli's stats. He's gonna be a HOFer, I'm not worried about his perception. I just want to win. That's why we root for our teams. We don't root for them to put up great numbers. We root for them to win. That's all that matters.

Eli has the hardware, and he has the stats too. You make it sound like the guy is throwing 52% with a 1:1 TD/INT ratio.

I do believe elite quarterbacks find ways to win. So winning does matter. I've never deviated from this belief. It's why Tom Brady is the best qb in the league to me. It's why I rather have a Roethlisberger than a Rivers. It's why a Troy Aikman is more valuable to me than a Dan Fouts.

The revisionist history is unfair too. Before the season starts, we always hear about how the Giants lost so many key pieces, and lost so many weapons. By the end of the season we hear about how Eli had a ton of weapons. Give me a break. You can't have it both ways either.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:43 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,093
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Completion percentage is overrated to begin with. Elway had a less than 60% completion percentage.
Different offensive era.

Quote:
And in a choice route offense, I've said this for the past 4 years, you're gonna throw picks. These guys aren't robots, you're not going to read the defense the exact same way every time. When you run that type of scheme with that many choices, you get interceptions. It happens.
But why does it happen more to Eli than every other "elite" quarterback?

Quote:
Eli doesn't even have terrible stats. His stats are fine. I don't get how we can use stats against him when he's put up solid numbers.
Becuase nobody is arguing if he's "solid". You said he was elite. In a league with only 32 starting quarterbacks, that's top 3-4.

Quote:
And we run for touchdowns. That's just how the offense is. Even with a terrible rush offense, we run for touchdowns. We run for the sake of running many times. That's just the offense, it is what it is.
Passing touchdowns actually are overrated for that reason. I'm not taking that into account at all.

Quote:
He's gonna be a HOFer, I'm not worried about his perception.
You clearly are.

Quote:
You make it sound like the guy is throwing 52% with a 1:1 TD/INT ratio.
No I don't, he's just not elite.

Quote:
I do believe elite quarterbacks find ways to win. So winning does matter. I've never deviated from this belief. It's why Tom Brady is the best qb in the league to me. It's why I rather have a Roethlisberger than a Rivers. It's why a Troy Aikman is more valuable to me than a Dan Fouts.
It's why Tim Tebow is a probowl quarterback. The "he just wins" argument is about as real as the tooth fairy. It's something analysts say to fill space and boost ratings.

Quote:
The revisionist history is unfair too. Before the season starts, we always hear about how the Giants lost so many key pieces, and lost so many weapons. By the end of the season we hear about how Eli had a ton of weapons. Give me a break. You can't have it both ways either.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Eli isn't elite because he's too inefficient. That's it.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

Last edited by bearsfan_51 : 10-05-2012 at 05:45 PM.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:45 PM    (permalink
Complex
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,699
Reputation: 659500
Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Complex is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Before the season starts, we always hear about how the Giants lost so many key pieces, and lost so many weapons. By the end of the season we hear about how Eli had a ton of weapons. Give me a break. You can't have it both ways either.
No we don't.You're so delusional.
__________________
Complex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
Giantsfan1080
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Jersey
Posts: 29,458
Reputation: 2617990
Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Giantsfan1080 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Eli is already top 40 in both passing TD's and yards. By the time his career is over he'll be in the top 15 or higher in both. He puts up numbers and wins.
__________________
#Chop


sig by BoneKrusher
Giantsfan1080 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Complex View Post
No we don't.You're so delusional.
So we didn't hear in the offseason about how Eli lost Steve Smith, and Kevin Boss, and how he lost 2 OLmen in Seubert and O'Hara and they were all gonna be hard to replace? We didn't hear about how the Giants weren't even gonna make the playoffs and those losses were a large reason for it? You're the delusional one if you think that didn't happen.

Look I get it. I've been on this forum for awhile, and I've seen Eli get hated on here for a long time.

But it's time to shut up and give the man his due. He proved it. Get over it.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:54 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,093
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Eli is already top 40 in both passing TD's and yards. By the time his career is over he'll be in the top 15 or higher in both. He puts up numbers and wins.
I'm all about history, but it's not fair at all to compare passing stats historically at this point. They're practically playing a different sport than they were even 20 years ago, let alone 40.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:54 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,093
Reputation: 2295780
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Look I get it. I've been on this forum for awhile, and I've seen Eli get hated on here for a long time.

But it's time to shut up and give the man his due. He proved it. Get over it.
Hahaha....you are hilarious.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
Raiderz4Life
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: R4L 3:16 says I just whipped your ass
Posts: 12,707
Reputation: 2783873
Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Raiderz4Life is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I think BBD's BBall trolling is starting to trickle down to his football a little bit.
__________________

Props to BK for the sig
"Impulsive thinker, compulsive drinker, addict, half animal half man"
Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's because we're the only animal capable of getting it from other animals. the day a goat can milk cows, it will.
Raiderz4Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2012, 04:57 PM    (permalink
thenewfeature06
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 3,658
Reputation: 82415
thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.thenewfeature06 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Why are talking about Eli..? he has done what he has done this is a week 5 discussion eh?

He isn't the prettiest when he plays at the same time he is fearless and being durable at his position is key. His brother is the better QB though, not sure what we are discussing here.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
Coples is that dude.
Go Amare.
thenewfeature06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.