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Old 03-10-2014, 07:46 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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Default Thoughts on McAdoo's offense

We know McAdoo's offense will incorporate elements of the Packers system with our existing system.

To get an idea of how the two systems compare, I looked at the team pro football focus rankings over tha past 4 seasons which ranks some key categories. Here is what I found

Overall offense: Giants 16th, Packers 7th

Pass: Giants 10th, Packers 6th

Rush: Giants 17th, Packers 17th

Pass Block: Giants 22nd, Packers 5th

Run Block: Giants 16th, Packers 22nd

Penalty: Giants 14th, Packers 9th

Key points

1. Packers are much more effective at pass blocking

2. Giants still have effective passing game despite below average pass protection

3. Packers have similar rushing effectiveness despite worse run blocking.

If our new system can majorly improve our pass protection while keeping our solid run blocking, we have the makings of a very effective offense.

Note: I took a four year span to look at trends over time.
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Old 03-10-2014, 07:47 PM    (permalink
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For those interested, here is the Pro Football Focus data (and NFL rankings)


2013

GB 92.5 (6th)
Pass 42.9 (6th), Rush 15.9 (6th), Pass Block 37.6 (3rd), Run Block -33.2 (19th), Penalty 29.3 (5th)

NYG -72.9 (27th)
Pass -12.1 (21st), Rush -4.3 (29th), Pass Block -58.6 (31st), Run Block -22.9 (18th), Penalty 25.0 (12th)


2012

GB 71.7 (13th)
Pass 56.2 (9th), Rush -3.3 (28th), Pass Block 34.4 (6th), Run Block -25.4 (29th), Penalty 9.8 (7th)

NYG 134 (6th)
Pass 62.4 (7th), Rush 8.6 (12th), Pass Block 14.3 (18th), Run Block 39.1 (4th), Penalty 9.6 (8th)


2011

GB 98.1 (4th)
Pass 80.0 (4th), Rush 2.2 (16th), Pass Block 37.1 (8th), Run Block -18.3 (20th), Penalty -2.9 (19th)

NYG -21.4 (22nd)
Pass 88.4 (3rd), Rush -0.4 (20th), Pass Block -81.0 (32nd), Run Block -29.8 (25th), Penalty 1.3 (14th)


2010

GB 73.7 (6th)
Pass 33.5 (4th), Rush -5.6 (19th), Pass Block 27.8 (3rd), Run Block 6.3 (18th), Penalty 11.7 (4th)

NYG 45.4 (10th)
Pass 15.3 (10th), Rush 4.0 (7th), Pass Block 16.2 (7th), Run Block 13.1 (16th), Penalty -3.2 (22nd)
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Old 03-10-2014, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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Here is the four year comparison using the average PFF ratings for each category

Overall offense: Giants 21.3 / Packers 84.0

Pass: Giants 38.5 / Packers 51.2

Rush: Giants 2.0 / Packers 2.3

Pass Block: Giants -27.3 / Packers 34.2

Run Block: Giants -0.1 / Packers -17.7

Penalty: Giants 8.2 / Packers 12.0

Trends

the Giants have an effective passing game with poor pass protection, the ground game is average.

the Packers have an average ground game with average run blocking.

The one thing that jumps out to me is how effective the Giants passing game is, basically it is 65.8 rating points better than our pass protection. Whereas the Packers passing game is 17.0 better than the pass protection.

It seems to me that you can argue that Kevin Gilbride's offense was very effective despite having poor pass blocking.

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Old 03-12-2014, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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It's going to be a hybrid offense. A lot of these stats are meaningless until we see how everything is contructed from pass pro and running schemes, to passing concepts, and formations we will use. We need to know what is the same and what's going to be added.
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
It's going to be a hybrid offense. A lot of these stats are meaningless until we see how everything is contructed from pass pro and running schemes, to passing concepts, and formations we will use. We need to know what is the same and what's going to be added.
I agree to some extent, although I disagree on basics like run blocking and pass blocking.

I don't think the talent over the four years is yo dissimilar, but the results, particularly in pass protection is significant. That's compounded further with the NFL trend towards more passing.

I also think it is reasonable to look at how we have performed over time. There are some definite trends
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Big_Pete View Post
I agree to some extent, although I disagree on basics like run blocking and pass blocking.

I don't think the talent over the four years is yo dissimilar, but the results, particularly in pass protection is significant. That's compounded further with the NFL trend towards more passing.

I also think it is reasonable to look at how we have performed over time. There are some definite trends
I am talking about specific pass pro and running schemes from both systems. It's not accurate to compare the two because they are two different systems. If you want to compare apples to apples compare them to another WCO system.

That's like when people compare QBs. Sure they play the same position but the systems are different in which QBs operate in. In this case, the systems are not the same, thus pass pro and running concepts will differ.

I am simply saying wait. Look at the system that is created and see how it compares. I can do this because I can compare my game break downs to this hybrid system. I will know after a few games if:

Pro pro is the same
Running concepts are the same
Formations: Similar or vastly different?
Routes: Similar or vastly different
Passing concepts: 1, 3 5 and 7 step? More screens? If yes, what type? More utilization of the RB as a pass catcher?

Since I coached TE, I will look at the TE position. Our OC was a TE coach, so I am interested in how he coaches them up. Are they more of a 2 way TE? More of a pass catcher? When he blocks is he in tow? Does he block the DE, or is he arc releasing to backer or safety?

So that's what I mean by let's wait and see because these numbers aren't from comparable systems.
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Old 03-13-2014, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
I am talking about specific pass pro and running schemes from both systems. It's not accurate to compare the two because they are two different systems. If you want to compare apples to apples compare them to another WCO system.

That's like when people compare QBs. Sure they play the same position but the systems are different in which QBs operate in. In this case, the systems are not the same, thus pass pro and running concepts will differ.

I am simply saying wait. Look at the system that is created and see how it compares. I can do this because I can compare my game break downs to this hybrid system. I will know after a few games if:

Pro pro is the same
Running concepts are the same
Formations: Similar or vastly different?
Routes: Similar or vastly different
Passing concepts: 1, 3 5 and 7 step? More screens? If yes, what type? More utilization of the RB as a pass catcher?

Since I coached TE, I will look at the TE position. Our OC was a TE coach, so I am interested in how he coaches them up. Are they more of a 2 way TE? More of a pass catcher? When he blocks is he in tow? Does he block the DE, or is he arc releasing to backer or safety?

So that's what I mean by let's wait and see because these numbers aren't from comparable systems.
I totally agree and there is a lot that will be developed

complete assumptions

McAdoo has talked about a vertical passing game, so that seems to be more 5 and seven step drop, Gilbride Sr also talked about Eli's skill with the vertical passing ans 5/7 step drops.

We know McAdoo will but more emphasis on screens.

I think we can take a fair bit from what Green Bay have done with their TEs and RBs for the type of things we are looking to do. The fact we have new position coaches after Pope and Ingram were fired indicates to me that we are changing things up fairly majorly (likely similar to GB, and maybe some elements of the Titans ground game)

How do our Oline personal shape up with a zone blocking scheme?
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Big_Pete View Post
I totally agree and there is a lot that will be developed

complete assumptions

McAdoo has talked about a vertical passing game, so that seems to be more 5 and seven step drop, Gilbride Sr also talked about Eli's skill with the vertical passing ans 5/7 step drops.

We know McAdoo will but more emphasis on screens.

I think we can take a fair bit from what Green Bay have done with their TEs and RBs for the type of things we are looking to do. The fact we have new position coaches after Pope and Ingram were fired indicates to me that we are changing things up fairly majorly (likely similar to GB, and maybe some elements of the Titans ground game)

How do our Oline personal shape up with a zone blocking scheme?

Yeah but I put that under coach talk. What's the alternative? We won't go vertical, we are more of a left to right passing concept team? LOL. We don't like to run an up tempo offense. I prefer a slow methodical offense that rarely goes down field.

: P

So to me, that's coach speak. Like I said, I will wait and break down his running concepts, pro pro, passing concepts, and formation installs. I want to see if I see a difference from my notes to this new stuff. Finally something new I can focus on. I am actually very excited for this.


I basically want to see how everything translates into one system. More TE screens? More RB screens? How about WR screens? More check downs? More Rbs in passing routes?

What's the pro pro going to be used?

BOB Pass Protection
Roll right/Roll left pass pro
Sprint right and left pass pro
Quick Right and Left Pass pro
Strong right and Strong Left
Max protection
Full Line slide pass protection
3 man half slide pass protection
4 man half slide pass protection

So you see, that's why I said wait until it plays out. There is SOO much information to process once the system is shown in pre season and regular games.
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Old 04-10-2014, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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That is true, but at the same time we know it is going to be a blend of what we have already and what McAdoo brings (which has Saints, 49ers and Packers influence).


We know it is going to feature a strong ground game, with all round "bell-cow" RBs.

We know it will have a vertical passing attack.

We know it will feature a strong screen game.

I suspect the line will include concepts from the Packers

I suspect the TEs will be used in a similar way to the Packers.


I think that gives us a general idea of how our offense may shape up. Of course a lot will depend on specifics.
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