Johnny "Football" Manziel, QB, Texas A&M - Page 6

DBNYDP · 01-06-2013, 10:03 AM

Unreal expectations for this kid who just finished an incredible freshman year, it seems as a lot of people in this thread are setting themselves up to be disappointed. And I'm as guilty as anyone about that, but lets see how he does next year when teams have a full offseason to prepare for him. Frankly as it stands I'm concerned about his ability as a pocket passer which still dominates the NFL and I'm very worried about his durability. RG3 is a fairly solid guy and he's had a lot of trouble with being healthy this year, that I can only expect will get worse if he continues to run like he does. I haven't seen enough to come to a solid conclusion but remember just a year ago Matt Barkely was gold and was challenging Luck as the #1 QB.

gpngc · 01-06-2013, 10:07 AM

What expectations are unreal? That a player can be drafted 1st or 2nd overall? Watch the tape.

Your concerned about his ability to be a pocket passer? Why? He's never going to only be a pocket passer. That doesn't matter.

If you are suggesting that he is weak throwing from the pocket then you didn't watch the cotton bowl I'm sorry. It really is that simple.

gpngc · 01-06-2013, 10:12 AM

Matt Barkley has nothing to do with the evaluation of JM. At all.

Monomach · 01-06-2013, 11:47 AM

Thoughts:
1. He's got some serious burst and acceleration. He makes great cuts. isn't really a burner, though. Speed-wise, he looks more Matt Forte than Chris Johnson.
2. I know he completed 68% of his passes, but his deep accuracy is kind of spotty.
3. It'll be interesting to see what he does with a much weaker line next year.
4. He's REALLY fun to watch. He'd sell some tickets for a franchise.
5. He's 6' and 200 lbs (according to the Aggies), but he somehow still looks crazy thin to me. If he doesn't bulk up, he'd miss some games in the pros. He's got time to work on this, of course.
6. If he doesn't pan out at QB...and assuming he has hands...I can see him being fantastic if he gets used in the way NO uses Sproles.
7. His stupid nickname and how often broadcasters use it makes me want to go on a punching spree.
8. Really, it's too early for us to say much of anything about him. We can talk after next season.

gpngc · 01-06-2013, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monomach

Thoughts:
1. He's got some serious burst and acceleration. He makes great cuts. isn't really a burner, though. Speed-wise, he looks more Matt Forte than Chris Johnson.
2. I know he completed 68% of his passes, but his deep accuracy is kind of spotty.
3. It'll be interesting to see what he does with a much weaker line next year.
4. He's REALLY fun to watch. He'd sell some tickets for a franchise.
5. He's 6' and 200 lbs (according to the Aggies), but he somehow still looks crazy thin to me. If he doesn't bulk up, he'd miss some games in the pros. He's got time to work on this, of course.
6. If he doesn't pan out at QB...and assuming he has hands...I can see him being fantastic if he gets used in the way NO uses Sproles.
7. His stupid nickname and how often broadcasters use it makes me want to go on a punching spree.
8. Really, it's too early for us to say much of anything about him. We can talk after next season.

He does not look crazy thin in any way shape or form. wtf? He has huge mits and a size 15 shoe... they talked about how thick he is during the broadcast.......

Why is it too early to say anything about him? This season may very well have been 50% of his entire college film.

JoeJoeBrown · 01-06-2013, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

He does not look crazy thin in any way shape or form. wtf? He has huge mits and a size 15 shoe... they talked about how thick he is during the broadcast.......

Why is it too early to say anything about him? This season may very well have been 50% of his entire college film.

Yeah, the kid's hands are gigantic.

brasho · 01-06-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

He does not look crazy thin in any way shape or form. wtf? He has huge mits and a size 15 shoe... they talked about how thick he is during the broadcast.......

Why is it too early to say anything about him? This season may very well have been 50% of his entire college film.

Two fantastic points. I don't think he looks thin at all. Considering he's actually listed at 6'1, there's a solid chance he's 6' or taller.. or will be.

When comparing to other prospects, Drew Brees came from a passing spread tupe offense and despite that benefits was only able to complete 61% of his passes over his career despite being only 6'0, also having a perceived lack of arm strength, and being quite a bit less athletic than Manziel. Brees wsan't thick by any standard when he came into the league but has filled out to the point that it isn't a slight consideration, nor is his height ever really brought up or a factor. The guy's a player and finds a way to succeed and win. He makes all the throws, and yeah, his deep accuracy is spotty at times... so was Dan Marino's, John Elway's, as is the Manning brothers, Brady, and Aaron Rodgers... nobody hits all of their deep passes. In the Cotton Bowl, Manziel missed one or two shots early but then made up for it by hitting both shots down the field in the 2nd half. A 50% success rate is fantastic no matter what level a guy is playing at...and I'm not talking about simply a catch, talking about hitting a guy in stride where only that player could catch it and make a play. The two incompletions in the first half? Overthrows... which it's far better to miss too long than too short, unless Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss are the targets.

brasho · 01-06-2013, 12:09 PM

With NFL offenses copying more of the college spread, I don't see how anybody can assume he won't have a spot for him in the NFL. People point to Robert Griffin as proof that Manziel won't be able to stay healthy. Russell Wilson has had no trouble. I think RG3's biggest problem is that he plays too recklessly.

Rob S · 01-06-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

I'll draft Johnny Football immediately. Let him enter right now.

See guys, I was on to something! The dude is going to be good.

T SHARE 18 · 01-06-2013, 12:47 PM

Go back and watch the Alabama game to get a feel of how he will do in the NFL. Hes not going to run for 200 yards like he did in the Cotton Bowl but he will be able to get yards with his legs. People say they want to see him without his 2 stud OTs watch the play where Joeckel whiffs on his block. Manziel gets hit,sticks his hand on the ground,stays up and keeps the play going. I've never seen anybody better on the run then him. He is just as accurate on the run as he is standing still. It looks like he has eyes in the back of his head too. The thing I like best about him is his ability to convert 3rd or 4th downs. A&M led the nation in 3rd down conversion %. He is not going to dump off to the RB on 3rd and long. He buys time with his legs if he needs to and can get rid of the ball to his receiver no matter what position he is in at the time. As long as he plays in a spread type system in the NFL he will put up great numbers. Im drafting him 1st overall if Im a GM/Owner.

Monomach · 01-06-2013, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

He does not look crazy thin in any way shape or form. wtf? He has huge mits and a size 15 shoe... they talked about how thick he is during the broadcast.......

Why is it too early to say anything about him? This season may very well have been 50% of his entire college film.

That's a tiny looking dude unless he has a gigantic head. He looks more like a coach than a QB. He doesn't look as built as most pocket passers and he's going to have to be thicker than them because he's going to constantly be putting himself in a position to get hit by some big linebackers in the pros.

But like I said...he has the time to work on that. He can't come out this year.

Hand size and shoe size have absolutely nothing to do with that. Not sure why you mentioned them...and broadcasters saying something means nothing. They fellate everyone. Watch any game Tim Tebow played and listen to them rave about how accurate a passer he is, lol.

...and of course it's too early for us to really evaluate him. He's a redshirt freshman. 50% of someone's tape (especially playing behind a stacked line for all of it) is WAY too early for any of us to have any idea where he's going to go in the draft. The only things that can be said with certainty right now are that he's fun to watch, he has a stupid nickname, and that we need to see more of him before he can be seriously evaluated from a pro standpoint.

SolidGold · 01-06-2013, 01:00 PM

I think on the broadcast when they were talking about handsize and footsize they were alluding to the fact he still has some growth potential with his frame. Having big hands does help being a QB though with gripping the ball etc. He is 20 so his body is likely still developing - not saying he will experience some huge growth spurt but his frame should add some bulk in the next few years.

I don't think he is as reckless as Griffin or Vick though - he is more elusive than Griffin so being 6'1 200lbs should not really hurt him as long as he avoids the big hits which he has been able to do thus far.

katnip · 01-06-2013, 04:14 PM

A rich-mans Troy Smith??

SolidGold · 01-06-2013, 04:51 PM

Watching this Seattle offense - I think Manziel would be even better than Wilson - lots of short and intermediate throws with some read option elements. Manziel is a better athlete than Wilson so I just find it hard to believe Manziel wouldn't be successful at the next level.

brat316 · 01-06-2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

Watching this Seattle offense - I think Manziel would be even better than Wilson - lots of short and intermediate throws with some read option elements. Manziel is a better athlete than Wilson so I just find it hard to believe Manziel wouldn't be successful at the next level.

He just would have to find throwing lanes, like Wilson and Brees do, but not many short qbs can do that, and thats where I feel his short comings will be.

Then again with the use of more spread and shotgun formations, doesn't really matter.

brat316 · 01-06-2013, 05:36 PM

Doug Flutie and JFM are more comparable.

gpngc · 01-07-2013, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katnip

A rich-mans Troy Smith??

It's not horrible but he's already much better than Troy Smith at every aspect of QBing and running.

So it would be like Bill Gate's Troy Smith if anything.

I should have never started with the comparisons. No one comparison does him justice but there is a lot of Big Ben in his game (obviously not size). Just imagine if Ben could run for 30 in the blink of an eye too.

villagewarrior · 01-07-2013, 06:06 AM

People were all over Taylor Martinez and Denard Robinson as well, and both those guys are going to have to move off the position, just like Manziel. Real fun college football player, but NFL defenses will pound him. He's got a long way to go during which he will be picked apart by scouts and draftniks alike.

gpngc · 01-07-2013, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

People were all over Taylor Martinez and Denard Robinson as well, and both those guys are going to have to move off the position, just like Manziel. Real fun college football player, but NFL defenses will pound him. He's got a long way to go during which he will be picked apart by scouts and draftniks alike.

Everyone just keeps saying "___________ had hype and now look!" rather than actually analyzing Manziel.

Martinez and Robinson were never the passers Manziel is.

villagewarrior · 01-07-2013, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpngc

Everyone just keeps saying "___________ had hype and now look!" rather than actually analyzing Manziel.

Martinez and Robinson were never the passers Manziel is.

This is true, and I did make the comparison, but mostly to bring up that Manziel will be picked apart as were Martinez and Robinson. If he can bulk up sufficiently perhaps he can stick but he just looks awfully small to me.

Caddy · 01-07-2013, 08:07 AM

Is it realistic to think a 20 year old man will continue to 'grow'? Get bigger sure, but he might be maxed out as far as his frame goes. I stopped growing when I was around 18.

WCH · 01-07-2013, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

Is it realistic to think a 20 year old man will continue to 'grow'? Get bigger sure, but he might be maxed out as far as his frame goes. I stopped growing when I was around 18.

I was 15 or 16. I'm about 30 pounds heavier now, but that's just muscle and fat wrapped around the same frame that I had when I was 15.

FUNBUNCHER · 01-07-2013, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by villagewarrior

This is true, and I did make the comparison, but mostly to bring up that Manziel will be picked apart as were Martinez and Robinson. If he can bulk up sufficiently perhaps he can stick but he just looks awfully small to me.

Why do people think he needs to bulk up??

Did Russell Wilson or Drew Brees need to 'bulk up'?
The kid is @205-210#, which is adequate weight for a player his height.

Manziel is a tough nosed QB who's plays stronger and bigger than his size.
Stop with the comparisons between Manziel and Robinson/Martinez.
Manziel is a far superior pass right now than either of those guys.

His complete game is just more effective than either of those two, and when Manziel scrambles, he's looking to pass AND run.

y.f.s. · 01-07-2013, 11:33 AM

The bowl game was the first time I really focused on him and not the other A&M players (or the opposing team's defense). This kid is legit. His arm is way legit, and I feel kinda stupid for ever comparing him to Flutie because his arm is MUCH better.

Babylon · 01-07-2013, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

The bowl game was the first time I really focused on him and not the other A&M players (or the opposing team's defense). This kid is legit. His arm is way legit, and I feel kinda stupid for ever comparing him to Flutie because his arm is MUCH better.

Totally agree. I think what was sort of misleading in some of the games i saw him play was his throwing the ball from all parts of his body was all wrong. I thought in the bowl game when he actually squared up and set his feet he actually threw a real nice ball.

I'm really excited about Manziel as a pro some day but am willing to shelf all this talk at least till this present draft is over. I fear this lovefest is going to get out of hand if it already hasn't.