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Old 11-09-2012, 05:31 PM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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Terrence Wheatley was never really that bad IMO. His problem was mostly just having a string of crippling wrist injuries and never getting any playing time a la Dowling. Believe it or not, Wheatley only allowed four completions with New England.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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The most baffling thing about that was Bellichick was a DB coach once upon a time.

You figure he'd be able to scout DBs.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:54 PM    (permalink
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The most baffling thing about that was Bellichick was a DB coach once upon a time.

You figure he'd be able to scout DBs.
I think he just trusts himself too much in terms of his coaching ability. If you look at guys like McCourty, Butler, and Dowling they're pretty much athletic specimens who are all capable tacklers and smart players. I think BB just assumed when he picked them that his coaching ability would help them make the jump to elite cover players. In that sense he values tools over things like good man coverage tape.

Which is fine to a point, but I think you can't overlook somebody who displays good cover ability because those guys generally just have a different temperament to them. They're not afraid to take a chance and get burnt. That's why guys like Haden who don't have amazing tools can be so successful. Both McCourty and Butler started off fairly well, but after they got burnt a few times they became hesitant and reactive players, and things spiraled downwards from there. Their 4.3 40 times and 40 inch verticals make no difference when they're always playing the man and not the ball, and theoretically no amount of coaching will solve that problem.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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I still consider McCourty a #1 cornerback and easily one of the Patriots' most valuable defenders. This year, he's only allowed 18/41 passing for 237 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PD, 62.3 rating, and he's even chipped in at free safety. His terrible first half last year is being weighed more heavily than two and a half seasons of great play.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:29 PM    (permalink
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I still consider McCourty a #1 cornerback and easily one of the Patriots' most valuable defenders. This year, he's only allowed 18/41 passing for 237 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT, 6 PD, 62.3 rating, and he's even chipped in at free safety. His terrible first half last year is being weighed more heavily than two and a half seasons of great play.
I think a prolonged McCourty discussion is better served in the Patriots forum. I think he's definitely improved a lot from last season, but the numbers in this case don't really tell the full story so far this season IMO. He's still closer to being a problem for us than a solution.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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McCourty rules. That's the end of that discussion
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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How can Deltha O'Neal be a bad player is he has so many INTs. 10 picks don't lie bro.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:52 PM    (permalink
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Why is this happening.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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How can Deltha O'Neal be a bad player is he has so many INTs. 10 picks don't lie bro.
Because the only thing he did was pick off 10 passes. He was constantly burnt and never tackled anyone.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:26 PM    (permalink
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Good God how was that ever an NFL secondary?
A lot of those guys were not on the team at the same time.

However, last year the Patriots started:

Kyle Arrington
Matthew Slater (ST captain)
Julian Edelman (WR)
James Idehigbo
Antwaun Molden

And Nate Jones was the primary backup... I dare anyone to find a worse defensive backfield than that. The only guy on that list that is still on the Patriots' roster as a DB is Kyle Arrington (slater was moved back to ST and Edelman is a WR)... and Patriots fans can't wait for him to be benched.
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Old 11-09-2012, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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How can Deltha O'Neal be a bad player is he has so many INTs. 10 picks don't lie bro.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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The most baffling thing about that was Bellichick was a DB coach once upon a time.

You figure he'd be able to scout DBs.
Sometimes, I think "position gurus" tend to think they can take someone lesser and "make" them a good player.

Sometimes it works, but a lot of the time, it doesn't.

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Why is this happening.
Which thing? The Chiefs talking to Marty Schottenheimer? I somehow knew you wouldn't like that.

Yeah, it's been denied, but it's fun to mess with you over.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:37 AM    (permalink
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Watching Dante Hall and Priest Holmes 2003 highlights were the ****. I remember those two **** on the Steelers that year. Too bad Priest was ran into the ground because he was the man.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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49ers better open up there passing game against the rams team like they did against Buffalo . Just saying because they better destroy the rams
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:53 AM    (permalink
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49ers better open up there passing game against the rams team like they did against Buffalo . Just saying because they better destroy the rams
I took the points. I typically just love taking points when it's a high spread in a division game.

Unless it's the Pats. Bc they like running up the score.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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A lot of those guys were not on the team at the same time.

However, last year the Patriots started:

Kyle Arrington
Matthew Slater (ST captain)
Julian Edelman (WR)
James Idehigbo
Antwaun Molden

And Nate Jones was the primary backup... I dare anyone to find a worse defensive backfield than that. The only guy on that list that is still on the Patriots' roster as a DB is Kyle Arrington (slater was moved back to ST and Edelman is a WR)... and Patriots fans can't wait for him to be benched.
It's gotta be so frustrating to see when NE has dedicated so many resources to the Secondary and it's still so awful. A lot of high picks were made over the past 4 years and none of them have panned out.

Part of that makes me wonder if Bellichick's coverages are too complex. I know he has the defensive version of option routes with his coverages. His coverages change based on the formation, motions, personnel, and route combinations.

So you can almost see 3 different forms or variations of coverage in 1 play. It's very complex and you need very smart players to all be on the same page to perfect it.

When it works to perfection like the old veteran defenses he had during his championship years, you see the results. What is perceived to be as "overachievers" on defense come together as a unit and look amazing on the 22 tape.

But when it doesn't work, you have this current crop of DBs.

I honestly think he needs to dumb it down. But Bellichick isn't that kind of coach.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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The Patriots run a lot of pattern-matching zone coverages in which cornerbacks are basically in man coverages on receivers who enter their zone. When a wide receiver is leaving the zone, the cornerback passes them off to someone in the next zone. I think the problems with drafting defensive backs stem from Belichick trying to project how cornerbacks will transition to a completely different form of coverage without having seen them execute those coverages before. Obviously it would be nice to draft a Dre Kirkpatrick or a Dee Milliner, as Alabama runs very similar defensive coverages, but New England never picks high enough to draft those guys. The problems defending the deep ball are also in part due to an inconsistent pass rush (aside from Chandler Jones and when Belichick decides to blitz Spikes/Mayo), because it gives quarterbacks quite a bit of time to let those routes develop.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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That's typical of many zone coverage teams though. What is unique to NE (although not entirely unique, Perry Fewell does the same thing and I'm sure some other coaches do as well) is changing the coverage based on combinations.

For example, they can call Cover 3 in the huddle. Then see the personnel of the offense. Let's say it's 22 personnel. Now, depending on what Bellichick taught them, perhaps the coverage changes to Cover 1 (but still disguised as Cover 3 or even Man Cover 2 etc). Then perhaps after the hike, depending on the route combinations Cover 1 can change to Robber.

So you essentially changed the coverage 3 times in 1 play all while disguisng the coverage in multiple ways. And this requires a lot of film study, everyone to be on the same page, and lots of communication.

That can confuse a lot of players.

If you notice though, it works well against Qbs who read defenses well. Eli and Peyton have always had difficulty vs NE for this reason.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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Philly and Dallas has so much potential to be hilarious.
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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Philly and Dallas has so much potential to be hilarious.
the "Who Will Suck Less" bowl
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Dallas vs Philly is essentially a playoff game. Whoever loses is practically eliminated from the playoffs.

Going 3-6 means you can only lose 1 more game at best, and pray for tie breakers, both of which I don't see either team pulling off.

So this is a must win for both.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:30 AM    (permalink
SolidGold
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I wish I was able to watch the Dolphins today. I really want to see Tannehill in action.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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All of ESPN took Dallas... I should probably change my pick to Philly.
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Old 11-11-2012, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
I wish I was able to watch the Dolphins today. I really want to see Tannehill in action.
Tannesavior vs Based Locker!
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
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