MVP as we head out of November

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Everybody keeps pointing to Peterson's 7 game streak of 100+ yard games. I just want to point out again that the Vikings are 3-4 during that streak.

"but...but...that's because the Vikings QB play has dropped off!"

Which kind of backs up the point that a RB doesn't belong in the MVP conversation with the most valuable QBs.

Maybe they are 0-7 if Peterson wasn't playing at such a ridiculous level but that is just what ifs

[descendency]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Maybe they are 0-7 if Peterson wasn't playing at such a ridiculous level but that is just what ifs

No one is going to win an MVP award when their biggest contributions come during a 3-4 stretch.

Drew Brees tore up the NFL and was relegated to an OPOY because his team didn't make the playoffs.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by descendency

No one is going to win an MVP award when their biggest contributions come during a 3-4 stretch.

Drew Brees tore up the NFL and was relegated to an OPOY because his team didn't make the playoffs.

Adrian Peterson averaging 6.0 yards per attempt...the same as Christian Ponder's yards per pass attempt

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by Halsey

Everybody keeps pointing to Peterson's 7 game streak of 100+ yard games. I just want to point out again that the Vikings are 3-4 during that streak.

"but...but...that's because the Vikings QB play has dropped off!"

Which kind of backs up the point that a RB doesn't belong in the MVP conversation with the most valuable QBs.

In a way, I will give you that.
It is true, today's NFL means QB's are the most valuable... look at the last decade's Super Bowl winners.... all led by QB's, not RB's.

I've always thought there should be a PLAYER OF THE YEAR instead of Most Valuable.

In the case of MVP, it would almost have to be a QB.
But Player of the Year, Peterson gets it.

Is LDT the last non-QB to lead a team to the best record and win the MVP?

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

In a way, I will give you that.
It is true, today's NFL means QB's are the most valuable... look at the last decade's Super Bowl winners.... all led by QB's, not RB's.

I've always thought there should be a PLAYER OF THE YEAR instead of Most Valuable.

In the case of MVP, it would almost have to be a QB.
But Player of the Year, Peterson gets it.

Is LDT the last non-QB to lead a team to the best record and win the MVP?

Meh, player of the year would still have a lot of grey area. Duane Brown and Jake Long have both had years where they could be considered player of the year but would never get close to it. Same with defensive players.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

Let's see your ballot, tough guy njx9, or better yet, go ahead and throw some 8th grade girl insults out like you're used to doing instead of throwing some true football opinions out! Have a pair for once. Of your OWN and not someone else........ (not holding my breath)

which insult, specifically? the one where i simply tl;dr'd your opinion and rolled my eyes at it? the one you called a 'comeback' for some unknown reason? and did you completely miss where i said i'd give it to brady on like, the first page? why do you, in every single thread you post in, insist on making people repost things they've already said 15 times?

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by njx9

which insult, specifically? the one where i simply tl;dr'd your opinion and rolled my eyes at it? the one you called a 'comeback' for some unknown reason? and did you completely miss where i said i'd give it to brady on like, the first page? why do you, in every single thread you post in, insist on making people repost things they've already said 15 times?

God dammit njx, you have to bold the important parts of your posts.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

God dammit njx, you have to bold the important parts of your posts.

i figured the simple fact that i was acknowledging brady was actually good would be enough, but apparently not.

also, congrats on the super bowl. i'm massively depressed that you'll be in yet another one.

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by njx9

i figured the simple fact that i was acknowledging brady was actually good would be enough, but apparently not.

also, congrats on the super bowl. i'm massively depressed that you'll be in yet another one.

Denver is going to be just as dangerous in the playoffs, and I think you guys still have a pretty good shot at getting the 2 seed over us. We havent been overly dominant in the playoffs for awhile now so anything could happen in this years AFC, one big win wont change my mind about that.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Denver is going to be just as dangerous in the playoffs, and I think you guys still have a pretty good shot at getting the 2 seed over us. We havent been overly dominant in the playoffs for awhile now so anything could happen in this years AFC, one big win wont change my mind about that.

meh, we have no running game and no run defense. and brady's currently unstoppable. we'll be done in the first if you don't stumble against the 49ers and we somehow beat the ravens.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Descendency makes a great point and it's one I still get confused sometimes.

There's a difference between Offensive Player Of The Year and MVP.
You don't usually see an MVP from .500 or worse ball clubs. The MVP is usually from a team that one of the best in the league, or has a winning record.
The Vikes do have a winning record, but they're nowhere near a dominant football team or possible SB contender.

Brady and Manning are impacting the success of their teams to a much greater degree IMO than AD is for the Vikings.

If it's about OPOTY, I'd pick Peterson ten times out of ten.
What he's doing and how he's doing it is just unbelievable.

Not only is he on track for 2K, he's in striking distance of Eric Dickerson's alltime single season rushing mark of 2105.

AD I think is the league's best offensive player, but he's not MVP.

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Descendency makes a great point and it's one I still get confused sometimes.

There's a difference between Offensive Player Of The Year and MVP.
You don't usually see an MVP from .500 or worse ball clubs. The MVP is usually from a team that one of the best in the league, or has a winning record.
The Vikes do have a winning record, but they're nowhere near a dominant football team or possible SB contender.

Brady and Manning are impacting the success of their teams to a much greater degree IMO than AD is for the Vikings.

If it's about OPOTY, I'd pick Peterson ten times out of ten.
What he's doing and how he's doing it is just unbelievable.

Not only is he on track for 2K, he's in striking distance of Eric Dickerson's alltime single season rushing mark of 2105.

AD I think is the league's best offensive player, but he's not MVP.

That's such a ******** argument. Not saying that you're wrong because based on the how the system is set up that is how it works, but it's BS.

it's the NFL MVP award. As in most valuable player in the NFL. Not who's most important to their team's success. It's really a shame that in all sports it has become "best player on a playoff team". One player can only do so much to help their team. Without Adrian Peterson the Vikings are picking top 5, maybe even winless. It's not his fault that he doesn't have a top QB. Put a good but not elite QB like Schaub or Cutler on the Vikings and they're probably one of the best teams in the league, because of the running attack of Adrian Peterson. 1600 yards with an average of 6.0 per carry is ridiculously good, especially in a time where running isn't an offenses focus. Manning and Brady are having very good seasons, but it's nothing that we haven't seen before. Peterson might set the rushing record on a team with no passing game to take the pressure off while averaging an outstanding 6.0 ypc. He has my vote right now, I don't care if the Vikings miss the playoffs. Best player in the league this year.

[prock]

Couldn't have said it better. The Vikings without AD = the Cardinals - Fitz.

How do we have 7 wins thus far? It's entirely AD.

[FUNBUNCHER]

It's hard for a RB to win MVP over a QB who's having an equally outstanding season.

If AD had 15 TDs and the Vikes had a couple more wins, I think Peterson would be a stronger MVP candidate.

Right now I think he's no worse than 3rd in the voting for MVP.
IMO there's no more dominant player in the NFL than Peterson.

[prock]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

It's hard for a RB to win MVP over a QB who's having an equally outstanding season.

If AD had 15 TDs and the Vikes had a couple more wins, I think Peterson would be a stronger MVP candidate.

Right now I think he's no worse than 3rd in the voting for MVP.
IMO there's no more dominant player in the NFL than Peterson.

That's what is hard for me to believe. Obviously there are QBs having great seasons and it is absolutely a more valuable position, but AD is wrecking everything. He is the best at his position in the league and is the only reason the Vikes don't have probably three wins. Homerism aside, I think it is between him and Brady and if he keep his act up it should be an obvious choice.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by prock

That's what is hard for me to believe. Obviously there are QBs having great seasons and it is absolutely a more valuable position, but AD is wrecking everything. He is the best at his position in the league and is the only reason the Vikes don't have probably three wins. Homerism aside, I think it is between him and Brady and if he keep his act up it should be an obvious choice.

Not necessarily disagreeing with the validity to this argument, but Peterson being the best RB doesn't make him the most valuable player. That's what the pro bowl and all pro teams are meant to symbolise.

Calvin Johnson is on pace to achieve something which has happened less than what Peterson has done, so it's clear most people see Peterson's value more in the fact that he is helping his team win more games.

However, a guy like Peterson who makes the Vikings go from a 3 win team to a 7 or 8 win team is great, but the fact of the matter is, you take Rodgers, Manning, Brady etc off of their teams and they don't have the same success. Last time the Pats didn't have Brady and they didn't win the division and didn't make the playoffs. The Broncos have a serious chance to get the #1 seed if the Texans and Pats fall again. You really think they do that with Brock Osweiler?

Peterson may add a few extra wins to the Vikings but the QBs make their teams legitimate Superbowl contenders. Being the best player on a bad team does not equate to most valuable. You take Aaron Rodgers off the Packers and I doubt they are a 6 win team.

Any way people want to look at it, it is a QB centric league because QBs affect the game much more than any other position. A QB having a really good year is more valuable than a RB having a great year

[MetSox17]

If you're gonna disregard everyone else because the QB has the most influence on how many wins a team has (which i don't disagree with), then why not just rename it the QBOTY award? I don't think it's fair to discount Peterson simply because he doesn't put them in the playoffs himself. What he's doing is ridiculously impressive. I don't think it's about where a team is, but about how far it's taken them to get there. Without Peterson, the Vikings on offense are one of, if not the worst in the entire league, and he has a good shot at breaking the all time single season rushing record. That's pretty ******* significant.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

If you're gonna disregard everyone else because the QB has the most influence on how many wins a team has (which i don't disagree with), then why not just rename it the QBOTY award? I don't think it's fair to discount Peterson simply because he doesn't put them in the playoffs himself. What he's doing is ridiculously impressive. I don't think it's about where a team is, but about how far it's taken them to get there. Without Peterson, the Vikings on offense are one of, if not the worst in the entire league, and he has a good shot at breaking the all time single season rushing record. That's pretty ******* significant.

I agree what he's doing unbelievable, but I suppose value is relative to each person. I mean, without Jamaal Charles the Chiefs may rival the Detroit Lions from a few years back. He's on pace for 1500 yards on the worst team in the NFL with a far worse QB situation than the Vikings. The Chiefs are generally behind in most games (I can't remember how long it lasted but they didn't lead in a game for a good few weeks to start the season) and that isn't going to help Charles get more carries. Now Peterson has only had 20 or so more carries than Charles, but RBs, especially like Charles and Peterson tend to get yards in big chunks. You may get 2 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards then 15 yards etc so the more carries in the game the better their chances of breaking a big gain. In week 2 Charles had 6 carries - this against the same Bills team who gave up 250 on the ground to the Pats. In week 8 against Oakland, another putrid run defense he had 5 carries.

Also, not to take away from Peterson, but his 2 best performances of the season both came in losses. 182 and 2TDs against Seattle and 210 and 1 against GB. Obviously he is hamstrung by the QB play, but when it comes to value, if Manning, Rodgers or Brady have their best day of the season you can pretty much bet it's coming in a win for their team

I'm not a fan with the whole Most Valuable tag anyway because you can't determine who it is on most teams without a top notch QB. Who's more valuable to the Bills? CJ Spiller, Kyle Williams, Jackson, Wood etc???

[Mufasa]

People get so hung up on the value part. It'd be better if they just changed it to Most Outstanding Player. If you go so literal with value then no one other than a QB should ever even be in the discussion.

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Also, not to take away from Peterson, but his 2 best performances of the season both came in losses. 182 and 2TDs against Seattle and 210 and 1 against GB. Obviously he is hamstrung by the QB play, but when it comes to value, if Manning, Rodgers or Brady have their best day of the season you can pretty much bet it's coming in a win for their team

I think that's actually more impressive. Most teams abandon the run when they're losing; the Vikings keep pounding it because Peterson is so good. Being able to have such incredible games and still come out with a loss just shows what a **** team he's playing on.

[J-Mike88]

Someone put this up to an official SWDC vote, let's see who we nominate.
Enough of the case-making: let's just vote.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by WCH

Adrian Peterson, in the past two months, has been playing better than any RB since Barry Sanders had his 2k season. He's just playing at such a high level, it's insane. J-Mike and I are Packer fans, and we're riding his dick. That's the type of level this guy is on.

Dude not trying to sound like a homer, but after OJ and Dickerson's years TD easily had the most dominate, dude sat out around 2 full games because they were up so early, and he was easily the most clutch postseason runner in the last 20 years.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

People get so hung up on the value part. It'd be better if they just changed it to Most Outstanding Player. If you go so literal with value then no one other than a QB should ever even be in the discussion.



I think that's actually more impressive. Most teams abandon the run when they're losing; the Vikings keep pounding it because Peterson is so good. Being able to have such incredible games and still come out with a loss just shows what a **** team he's playing on.

I dont think the fact the team decided to give up and just run it, when down big... sorry that's just common sense if the team is down big and they keep running it they are not trying to win at that point they are just trying to get the game over with.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

I think that's actually more impressive. Most teams abandon the run when they're losing; the Vikings keep pounding it because Peterson is so good. Being able to have such incredible games and still come out with a loss just shows what a **** team he's playing on.

Well you could look at it a different way. When teams are up more than one score in the 4th they generally go either prevent or at least a deep cover 2 shell. No team is foolish enough to stack the box when up multiple scores in the 4th regardless of who the QB is.

For example, Ben Tate ended up with 46 yards from 8 carries on Monday night, pretty much all when the game was out of hand. The Pats weren't attacking gaps and playing the same way they did against Foster in the first half.

Running the ball when in a hole is not a sign that someone is amazing. Peterson is amazing because he can do it when they are winning and teams know he is going to run. I would give AP 6 yard a pop when I'm up 2 scores if I can play deep coverage to stop big plays every single time.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Well you could look at it a different way. When teams are up more than one score in the 4th they generally go either prevent or at least a deep cover 2 shell. No team is foolish enough to stack the box when up multiple scores in the 4th regardless of who the QB is.

For example, Ben Tate ended up with 46 yards from 8 carries on Monday night, pretty much all when the game was out of hand. The Pats weren't attacking gaps and playing the same way they did against Foster in the first half.

Running the ball when in a hole is not a sign that someone is amazing. Peterson is amazing because he can do it when they are winning and teams know he is going to run. I would give AP 6 yard a pop when I'm up 2 scores if I can play deep coverage to stop big plays every single time.

Exactly... racking up garbage yards doesnt make it impressive

[Rosebud]

Isn't MVP minus the value part, kinda the same thing as Offensive Player of the Year? Which I have no problem with giving to AD this year. But MVP for me has to come down to Brady and Big Brother, the AFC is weak this year, but those two are making superbowl contenders out of very flawed teams.