So do people still believe the Patriots skill players are good? - Page 8

Raiderz4Life · 12-23-2012, 12:27 PM

This whole thing went south after your first few posts.

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiderz4Life

This whole thing went south after your first few posts.

This coming from Raiderfan....Lol.

How would Welker do in your offense Raiderfan?

Raiderz4Life · 12-23-2012, 12:48 PM

Probably the same as every offensive player currently on the team.

I like how my team affiliation is somehow a valid argument. You could also try getting my SN right, it is right in front of you.

nepg · 12-23-2012, 12:53 PM

I think my favorite part about this thread is the troll's (who I'm feeding again) main point being Welker in Miami with Joey Harrington, Gus Frerrotte, and Daunte Culpepper compared to his seasons with Tom Brady. He was a 2nd and 3rd year receiver with that team. He showed great progress and was Miami's most productive receiver. It's not a matter of him being a system guy. It's a matter of him being ******* good.

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiderz4Life

Probably the same as every offensive player currently on the team.

I like how my team affiliation is somehow a valid argument. You could also try getting my SN right, it is right in front of you.

Your SN is typical raider fan ghetto crap, so I'll just refer to you as RaiderFan from now on.

Jacoby Ford or Wes Welker?

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nepg

I think my favorite part about this thread is the troll's (who I'm feeding again) main point being Welker in Miami with Joey Harrington, Gus Frerrotte, and Daunte Culpepper compared to his seasons with Tom Brady. He was a 2nd and 3rd year receiver with that team. He showed great progress and was Miami's most productive receiver. It's not a matter of him being a system guy. It's a matter of him being ******* good.

My favorite part of this thread was when you claimed Welker has good straight line speed and runs behind the defense regularly.

Doesn't get any more cringe-worthy stupid than that, lol.

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 01:29 PM

Btw, just following all your guys' logic: Dude must be "trollingzzzz" when he says Welker has good straight line speed.

TROLLLLLLINGZZZZZ

scottyboy · 12-23-2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypocrisyIsGreat

Need to start a counter on how often the term "troll" was mis-used in this thread.

No, no. He's a troll. Not an intentional troll, though. Which makes it even better.

Rosebud · 12-23-2012, 01:40 PM

At least your other persona answered my posts. Booooo. Boooo this man!

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

At least your other persona answered my posts. Booooo. Boooo this man!

Good lord, this is becoming pathetic

scottyboy · 12-23-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypocrisyIsGreat

Good lord, this is becoming pathetic

becoming? I think it hit that when you and your buddy JT started the nice little circle jerk of being so hilariously wrong at understanding football.

Rob S · 12-23-2012, 02:26 PM

God damn, I should really stick to OT.....I've opened 2 threads elsewhere and....

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

becoming? I think it hit that when you and your buddy JT started the nice little circle jerk of being so hilariously wrong at understanding football.

We're the ones who don't understand football? What makes you say that? Because we aren't impressed with inflated stats?

SunTzu_22 · 12-23-2012, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WCH

So, we've established that Wes Welker would be less productive if he played in a system that didn't fit his skillset?

Do NFL coaches know this? I think we're really onto something here! Holy crap! Guys, do you think Belichick knew this when he traded for Welker???

If Belichick knew this when he made the trade, Im sure there was some sort of cheating involved... Welker-Gate....?

y.f.s. · 12-23-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob S

God damn, I should really stick to OT.....I've opened 2 threads elsewhere and....

Pretty much.

nobodyinparticular · 12-23-2012, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypocrisyIsGreat

Good lord, this is becoming pathetic

Well I'm glad you've finally come to understand this. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

FUNBUNCHER · 12-23-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

People get boners over 40 time and verticals and think that is the only way to measure a players athletic ability. Having the short area quickness is an equal trait IMO. The overlooked drills For what Welker does he is the best because he has the elite ability to make plays in space. The three cone drill and 20 yard drill at the combine are very important for slot WRs just as the 40 and vert are looked at as very important for outside WRs.

If Welker is manned up by a corner on a route that requires him to run more than 15+ yards downfield, he's shut down.

He still has a role in the Pats offense, but Welker is a 32 year old possession WR whose strength is sometimes picking up first downs and moving the chains. I don't buy that he would be a catastrophic loss to the Pats offense if he went down with an injury.

His 3 cone and 20 yard drill times I'd bet are nowhere what they were when he was a predraft prospect.

However I still think Welker could start as a slot WR for most teams in the NFL.
He's a good, crafty, skilled player. But I don't think Welker is elite anymore at what he does.

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobodyinparticular

Well I'm glad you've finally come to understand this. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem.

Wow....I was expecting better my man. Weaksauce.

JordanTaber · 12-23-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidGold

People get boners over 40 time and verticals and think that is the only way to measure a players athletic ability. Having the short area quickness is an equal trait IMO. The overlooked drills For what Welker does he is the best because he has the elite ability to make plays in space. The three cone drill and 20 yard drill at the combine are very important for slot WRs just as the 40 and vert are looked at as very important for outside WRs.

And as I brought up in this thread, Welker's 3 cone drill time at his pro day was terrible (7.09).

If he had an elite ability to make plays in space, he would have made more big plays by now. He also probably would've returned a punt for a TD in the NFL by now.

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromforgotten

Now we are getting to the root of your problem. Let's keep this in house. Are/were there people on this forum saying this before this thread was created? I doubt it.

After you posted this, there was a doofus on this thread claiming welker has "good straight line speed" and "runs past defenses regularly".

Might have been the worst post of all time, lol

farfromforgotten · 12-23-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HypocrisyIsGreat

After you posted this, there was a doofus on this thread claiming welker has "good straight line speed" and "runs past defenses regularly".

Might have been the worst post of all time, lol

That post was in reply to your, I mean Jordan's, post stating that people all over the internet were saying Wes Welker is a Hall of Fame WR. Which I still have not seen anyone post that on here.

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farfromforgotten

That post was in reply to your, I mean Jordan's, post stating that people all over the internet were saying Wes Welker is a Hall of Fame WR. Which I still have not seen anyone post that on here.

1) I'm not Jordan. I can see some of you have a huge problem with this post and feel the need to use the tired "they're the same person" card, but any mod can do an IP check at anytime. Until then, stay on topic.

2) Not HOF. Just that he's one of the better targets in the league and a legitimate pro bowler. Which he's not. He's not even as good as Danny Amendola

JordanTaber · 12-23-2012, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

The NFL is a copy cat league, of course we'd expect other coaches to borrow concepts that work from the successful teams the way teams started trying to recreate the Pats 3-4 a decade a go or the way teams have adopted more and more spread concepts in the last 5 years.

Borrow concepts, yes. It doesn't mean they're just going to copy the whole thing.

Plenty of teams throw screen passes to receivers. They just don't tend to do it 5+ times per game like New England does with Welker.

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If Welker's so easily replaceable why has Belicheck invested so much in him instead of just replacing him the way he did future Hall of Famer Richard Seymour?

What do you mean, "invested so much in him?" The Patriots didn't even sign him to an extension this past off-season. He was making peanuts compared to what other receivers with "similar production" have been making.

Quote:

Again who cares how he's rated elsewhere, you're arguing here, against the people that post here, so address the arguments being made here.

I am addressing said arguments. I'm also arguing why he's overrated in general.

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And how about the Wall Street Journal? http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...655455958.html That's a solid article about the choice routes Gilbride utilizes, do you believe that they exist now?

I never said option routes didn't exist. I just don't see what the big deal is. It's not rocket surgery. Guys succeeding in an offense featuring option routes does not impress me. I'm pretty sure most football players could look at the coverage and choose between 2-3 different possible routes to run and get open a lot of the time. Any receiver who has a chance to be successful in the NFL is going to be smart enough to figure simple things like that out.

Sight adjustments are not a new concept. The run-and-shoot used the same idea...and, whaddaya know?...a plethora of productive receivers in every run-and-shoot offense back in the day. Big name, small name...didn't matter. Everybody who ran that offense got production out of its receivers. Even if your QB was Jeff George, all of a sudden, Eric Metcalf was catching 100+ passes for you.

And funny enough...that's where Gilbride's "sight adjustments" come from, since he was a run and shoot guy.

And Welker's inflated numbers aren't just related to that. They're more related to how many screens he catches (no adjustment required there) and how many drags he runs (even if it's an adjustment, any drag route you run is almost invariably going to match you up against linebackers). He's fed short passes and that's the main reason he catches so many balls, much like a running back in a system where the quarterback is drilled to take the checkdown.

Derek Loville caught 87 passes in 1995 because of the system he was in. I can assure you of that. It wasn't because he was a better pass catcher than, say, Jerome Bettis.

Ness · 12-23-2012, 05:14 PM

There are a lot of players that people all across the nation vote to go to the Pro Bowl or tout as an All Pro worthy player when they shouldn't be. This isn't new. Welker wasn't being put on a pedestal here though.

HypocrisyIsGreat · 12-23-2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

There are a lot of players that people all across the nation vote to go to the Pro Bowl or tout as an All Pro worthy player when they shouldn't be. This isn't new. Welker wasn't being put on a pedestal here though.

Epic post right here with a wealth of knowledge.