Poll: Rookie of the Year (week 16)

[xooberon]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

College QB's routinely complete 80% of their passes. It really helps to have a scheme and a 1400 yard rusher (through 15 games) that allow you to play super safe lateral passing game. Even in that statistic posted above he's a full 10% behind the other two in YIA%. That means he's CONSISTENTLY checking down and asking his WRs to get to the marker and do the work.

RGIII is a phenomenal player but he's running a college offense suited to him playing dynamic bus driver and not taking risks. Given that RGIII is on a team with the best rushing attack in football he should have FAR higher percentage of YIA% due to the sheer success of deep play action versus run-aligned defenses.

RGIII's at about the league average for YIA%, he has a similar number to guys like Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger and Cam so I don't think it's as big a deal as you're making it out to be. Sanchez, incidentally, leads the league in YIA% so make of that what you will.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I wish OROTY voters crunched numbers like this, be we all know they don't.

RG3 also leads the league in completion percentage against the Blitz. He also has 4 WR's with 500 yrds recieving and Davis would have been a 5th as he and Paulsen have ~650. Further proving that he doesn't go through progressions and he locks onto one reciever.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Further proving that he doesn't go through progressions and he locks onto one reciever.

You said stated RGIII doesn't perform a task every NFL QB has to do. Make reads moving from the plays #1 target down through the progressions.

Not sure if you fully comprehend what a Quarterback does.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Likewise if a QB scores 3 TD's in garbage time while doing nothing the rest of the game and he finishes the game with a 110 QB rating in a losing effort, did he have a good game? The exact same rationale applies.

Name on ******* game RG3 padded his stats in garbage time. I know you didn't specifically say him, but why say it if you weren't trying to imply something? Gawd The more people post the more convinced that this thread is littered with 3rd graders or adults that apply logic at that level. Completely absurd.

[Jvig43]

Oh darn, probably should stop posting in here then.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Name on ******* game RG3 padded his stats in garbage time. I know you didn't specifically say him, but why say it if you weren't trying to imply something? Gawd The more people post the more convinced that this thread is littered with 3rd graders or adults that apply logic at that level. Completely absurd.

Overreaction much. I was making a point about how taking stats out of context is as useless as looking to a record to make assumptions about performance. I'm on record saying that I think RGIII should be rookie of the year. Nothing has changed. Go use some of your excess anger and angst to go write your dissertation or something professor.

[FUNBUNCHER]

The Skins offense is multiple, it's not a college offense.
Interpret the stats however you want, but don't come back with the inane conclusion that Kyle's offense allows RGIII not to take risks or play conservatively.

Yes a productive ground game is a rookie QB's best friend, but let's not pretend as if it's the running game alone that's made the Skins one of the most prolific scoring offenses in the league.

Is Russell Wilson's production this season inferior to Luck because he too has a 1400+ yard rusher???

It's the generalities people throw out about RGIII that are so maddening.
He never takes risks. It's his running game that allows him to be efficient.
He's running a college offense in Washington. His offense is predicated on swing passes, screens and checkdowns. RGIII is a glorified game manager.

BTW, I think you're misreading the significance of of YIA%. I don't know if there are any three NFL WRs on the same team who are better getting YAC than Garcon/Josh Morgan/Santana Moss. Also no other trio of WRs blocks for one another when they have the ball more than those three. It's not the result of an inordinate amount of screens and swing passes.

The Colts have been to the playoffs forever. They have one season last year where they're forced to start guys at QB who would be lucky to be 3rd stringers on most teams, and suddenly Andrew Luck 'saved' the franchise.

How many times in the last 20 years have the Skins won 9+ games in a season?? When's the last time they were in contention for the division crown??

Make no mistake, if there's one QB who's rescued a teetering, irrelevant franchise, it's RG3. Yeah Kirk Cousins was good enough to beat a bad Browns squad and he pulled two plays out of his ass late to help beat the Ravens, but this team isn't in the same position without RGIII.

Luck didn't 'save' anything. He merely helped the Colts make it back to the playoffs, exactly where they were two seasons ago.

3rd down efficiency, the rookie passing yardage record and win total are the only stats favoring Luck.
When Luck plays his final regular season game against the Texans, he will have over 600+ attempts, more than a hundred more passes thrown than Newton when he set the rookie passing yardage mark.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Overreaction much. I was making a point about how taking stats out of context is as useless as looking to a record to make assumptions about performance. I'm on record saying that I think RGIII should be rookie of the year. Nothing has changed. Go use some of your excess anger and angst to go write your dissertation or something professor.

What stats are being taken out of context?

[Trogdor]

I respect most of what you are saying Funbuncher, unlike the mass of Redskin's trolls here, but we are arguing two different criteria :)

If you vote for OROY from an efficiency standpoint there is no arguing RGIII would take the vote.

If you vote from a "pop culture" standpoint (Yardage, Completion %, Game Winning Drives, 4th Quarter Comebacks, etc) it is honestly a three-way-race.

If you vote from a "MVP" criteria (individual contributions to overall team success) I can't see how you can argue that RGIII means more to the Redskins than Luck does to the Colts. I mean you said it yourself. 600+ attempts, yardage record, while having one of the worst rushing attacks in the league. RGIII will have about half those attempts while having the #1 rushing attack in the league. I know he contributes to the rushing attack but Alfred Morris is a LEGIT 1400+ yard back through 15 games.

[njx9]

seahawks fans: i think i was ok in thinking early russell wilson was a mediocre qb getting a LOT of help from a fantastic defense and running back. but in the last several games, he's completely reversed my opinion. i really hope he doesn't have sophomore issues, because he looks phenomenal. i still don't think it's realistically enough to sway enough voters, but really, when your rookie qb plays that well, who gives a **** if he wins ROTY. it certainly didn't change my opinion of von.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

What stats are being taken out of context?

A whole bunch throughout this stupid debate. They're no more relevant without context than a record is. That is the entirety of the point I made.

[jsagan77]

You can't be a real person. Which ones?

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

You said stated RGIII doesn't perform a task every NFL QB has to do. Make reads moving from the plays #1 target down through the progressions.

Not sure if you fully comprehend what a Quarterback does.

Sarcasm meter must be broken.

[ ] Shocked

[gpngc]

According to Vegas Luck is a healthy favorite right now.

But RGIII and Wilson are close odds-wise.

Luck -200, RGIII +150, Wilson +160.

I still fear RGIII won't make the playoffs and will thus fall out of the race completely (I'm rooting for RGIII).

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by gpngc

According to Vegas Luck is a healthy favorite right now.

Luck -200, RGIII +150, Wilson +160..

Wow, that's atroctious.

I like our voting in the new thread better....

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by gpngc

According to Vegas Luck is a healthy favorite right now.

But RGIII and Wilson are close odds-wise.

Luck -200, RGIII +150, Wilson +160.

I still fear RGIII won't make the playoffs and will thus fall out of the race completely (I'm rooting for RGIII).

Link? I'm about to put 5k down.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by njx9

seahawks fans: i think i was ok in thinking early russell wilson was a mediocre qb getting a LOT of help from a fantastic defense and running back. but in the last several games, he's completely reversed my opinion. i really hope he doesn't have sophomore issues, because he looks phenomenal. i still don't think it's realistically enough to sway enough voters, but really, when your rookie qb plays that well, who gives a **** if he wins ROTY. it certainly didn't change my opinion of von.

Same here. Russell looked like garbage early on but he looks amazing now. He's actually a better pocket passer than RGIII and makes his progressions better, while being slightly less athletic. And he has a better arm and accuracy than Luck. I'm extremely impressed with him.

This qb class is amazing.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

He's actually a better pocket passer than RGIII and makes his progressions better...

Says you buddy.

[jsagan77]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Same here. Russell looked like garbage early on but he looks amazing now. He's actually a better pocket passer than RGIII and makes his progressions better, while being slightly less athletic. And he has a better arm and accuracy than Luck. I'm extremely impressed with him.

This qb class is amazing.

Oh geezus :* is it commedy day in here?

Someone call up the NFL we have the best qb analyst ever on the board. Where were you a few weeks ago with your amazing analysis? The bandwagon shift on this board is second to none.

[J-Mike88]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...e-for-the-ages

Here's a little more in-depth, from someone who's paid to look into, watch, read, write about these things. Unlike us fans haha!

1. Redskins QB Robert Griffin III (first round, second overall)
Last week’s ranking: 1

Griffin completed 16-of-24 passes for 198 yards, two touchdowns and one interception in the Redskins’ win over the Eagles. He had a passer rating of 102.4.

2. Seahawks QB Russell Wilson (3, 75)
Last week’s ranking: 2

Wilson threw four touchdown passes and one interception, and completed 15-of-21 passes in Seattle’s Sunday night win over the 49ers. Wilson also had six carries for 29 yards and a passer rating of 115.3.

3. Colts QB Andrew Luck (1, 1)
Last week’s ranking: 3

In the Colts’ win over the Chiefs, Luck completed 17-of-35 passes for 205 yards, one touchdown and zero interceptions.

4. Redskins RB Alfred Morris (6, 173)
Last week’s ranking: 4

Morris had 22 carries for 91 yards and a touchdown in Washington’s win. He also had a 17-yard reception. Morris enters Week 16 with a 101-yard lead over Doug Martin for the rookie lead in rushing yards.

5. Packers CB Casey Hayward (2, 62)
Last week’s ranking: 8

Hayward had six tackles, one tackle for loss, a QB hit and his 20th pass defensed of the season, tops among all rookies.


The trifecta is also rewriting the rookie record book. Griffin already broke Cam Newton’s record for most rushing yards by a rookie QB in a season, will finish the campaign with the best-ever passer rating for a rookie and is likely to top Dan Marino’s rookie-best 20-6 TD-to-interception ratio from 1983.

Luck broke Newton’s record for most passing yards in a season in Week 16 and will add to it in the finale. He also has the most fourth-quarter comebacks in a season by a rookie all-time, with seven.

Wilson trails Peyton Manning’s record for most touchdown passes by a rookie by one heading into Week 17.

So, who gets the nod — the rookie record-holder for passing yards (Luck), passer rating (Griffin) or passing touchdowns (assuming Wilson gets two vs. the Rams)?

Voters will be forced to nitpick, looking at all possible factors to try to set one rookie signalcaller apart. The Redskins and Colts are two of the league’s most surprising teams, having turnarounds due in large part because of their rookie quarterbacks. The Seahawks had some backers as a potential playoff team, but few, if any, expected 10 wins, and Wilson wasn’t even supposed to start.

Wilson does have arguably the best supporting cast — a top-five defense, the league’s second-leading rusher and arguably the best O-line of the three QBs. As colleague Eric Edholm outlined in this week’s “Shorts and Shells,” Luck and Griffin are succeeding with unsung supporting casts.

Luck’s interception total, completion percentage and passer rating are all knocks against him, and he has by far the most passing attempts (599, also a rookie record), but how does one ignore the fact that Luck has brought a team that went 2-14 in 2011 to the playoffs?

Last year's Redskins were a 5-11 squad, and their defense lost two key players, Brian Orakpo and Adam Carriker, to injury early this season.

[jsagan77]

Honestly jmike, that guy could have written that simply by reading this thread. Lol

[Trogdor]

The most attempts by RG3 in one game: 39, in a 21-13 loss to the Panthers in Week 9. He's thrown the ball more than 30 times in just four games, with the team going 1-3.

Interesting. So when the Redskins need him to step up and become the focal point of the offense rather than the running game they win 25% of the time. I wonder what the comparison to Wilson and Luck looks like?

Wilson: 1-2 in games with 30+ attempts.

Luck: 8-4 in games with 30+ attempts.

Huh? So when Wilson and RGIII are forced to throw the ball more than 30 times (NFL average) a game they win less than a third of those games. Luck by comparison wins two out of three in that scenario.

[LonghornsLegend]

Even the paid analyst are split on who to vote for. I was listening to Mike & Mike this morning and they had it Luck, Wilson, then RGIII. I hardly doubt anybody has it a clear landslide winner. Maybe after week 17 it could become a bit clearer, but for now from what I've read from people I've seen all 3 come in different orders depending on who you ask.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Gawd The more people post the more convinced that this thread is littered with 3rd graders or adults that apply logic at that level. Completely absurd.

So why are you still here, constantly? I almost can't wait until the vote is done so you can go away and be irrelevant again, and I would go into how comments like these make the discussion that much more worthless but that seems to be your goal whenever the topic discusses RGIII.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Trogdor

The most attempts by RG3 in one game: 39, in a 21-13 loss to the Panthers in Week 9. He's thrown the ball more than 30 times in just four games, with the team going 1-3.

Interesting. So when the Redskins need him to step up and become the focal point of the offense rather than the running game they win 25% of the time. I wonder what the comparison to Wilson and Luck looks like?

Wilson: 1-2 in games with 30+ attempts.

Luck: 8-4 in games with 30+ attempts.

Huh? So when Wilson and RGIII are forced to throw the ball more than 30 times (NFL average) a game they win less than a third of those games. Luck by comparison wins two out of three in that scenario.

You're looking way too much into this. I mean...look at the QBR!!!! That is the one true stat for all greatness