Alex Smith is a Chief

[TACKLE]

Am I alone in thinking there really isn't a big difference between Alex Smith and Matt Moore?

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Am I alone in thinking there really isn't a big difference between Alex Smith and Matt Moore?

I think Matt Moore on the Niners gets more done than Smith. There are some teams that should bring him in.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by vidae

I'm not mad, I'm annoyed. People keep saying <x> player isn't worth <y> pick, but it's February and we haven't had the combine or pro days yet and things are still very fluid. To make those kind of comments now is just ridiculous imo. :)

You know nothing about football if you think the combine, where QBs throw in shorts and aren't in live game action scenarios, will make a guy like Geno smith better. These are workouts and they are important, but it doesn't measure whats on the film. If you take combine and pro day workouts that seriously, then you sir, are a fool. You're telling me these QBs, all of whom are extremely inconsistent and have question marks, are better than someone who's been established and has taken their team to the NFC title game?

Man, I thought you were smarter. The Cheifs have a strong team that lacked coaching and terrible QB play. Alex Smith is not Matt Cassell. The situation is similar, but the players are much different.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by Monomach

I think Matt Moore on the Niners gets more done than Smith. There are some teams that should bring him in.

Matt Moore is your typical back up. In Carolina, when he was named the starter, he folded. He did a solid job in Miami filling in, but he's not a guy that can be a starter in this league. He's a good back up to have.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

You know nothing about football if you think the combine, where QBs throw in shorts and aren't in live game action scenarios, will make a guy like Geno smith better. These are workouts and they are important, but it doesn't measure whats on the film. If you take combine and pro day workouts that seriously, then you sir, are a fool. You're telling me these QBs, all of whom are extremely inconsistent and have question marks, are better than someone who's been established and has taken their team to the NFC title game?

Man, I thought you were smarter. The Cheifs have a strong team that lacked coaching and terrible QB play. Alex Smith is not Matt Cassell. The situation is similar, but the players are much different.

You're totally right. No one's stock has ever shot through the roof based on something a coach has seen at the combine or pro days.

[Wootylicous]

I felt so bad for Moore in Hard Knocks.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Matt Moore is your typical back up. In Carolina, when he was named the starter, he folded. He did a solid job in Miami filling in, but he's not a guy that can be a starter in this league. He's a good back up to have.

Matt Moore had one bad year starting.

How many did Alex Smith have?

[Raiderz4Life]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Matt Moore had one bad year starting.

How many did Alex Smith have?

None, don't you know? You're supposed to ignore those, they don't even exist anymore.

[WinslowBodden]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Matt Moore had one bad year starting.

How many did Alex Smith have?

Let's not look at recent trends, instead lets put more weight on a #1 pick coming in starting for an awful team, getting injured, and having more instability at coaching than perhaps any team in the league.

Oh, then a good coach comes in and suddenly it's his fault for turning his game around with stability and a brilliant mind.

He could boom or bust with his next team, but completely writing off Smith's past two seasons is stupid.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by Monomach

You're totally right. No one's stock has ever shot through the roof based on something a coach has seen at the combine or pro days.

No, I'm a fool apparently. He thought *I* was smarter than that. Stock doesn't go up or down at the combine at all. My bad.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

*In no particuliar order*
Peyton
Rodgers
Brady
Brees
Matt Ryan
Big Ben
Eli
Flacco
Luck
Russel Wilson
RGIII
Kaepernick
Cam Newton
Stafford
Romo
Schaub
Cutler
Bradford
Dalton
Freeman
Rivers
Tannehill

I wouldn't take Alex Smith over any of those guys, even with some of them having a down year. And yes, I know what his completion percentage was.

I don't know what the last six have done for you to put them ahead of Smith. Rivers was at one point much better but he has been very bad to mediocre the last two seasons.

I think Matt Moore on the Niners gets more done than Smith. There are some teams that should bring him in.

Smith only had one year starting on a good 49ers team and they went to the NFCCG, would have been the Super Bowl if not for Kyle Williams. You think Matt Moore goes to the Super Bowl on the 49ers last season?

None, don't you know? You're supposed to ignore those, they don't even exist anymore.

Smith had three bad years, no one is denying that. My question is why are his early years better indicators of his current level than his most recent years?

For the record, I think Moore should get a chance to start somewhere. He can't be any worse than what the Chiefs or Jets fielded this year.

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

I don't know what the last six have done for you to put them ahead of Smith. Rivers was at one point much better but he has been very bad to mediocre the last two seasons.



Smith only had one year starting on a good 49ers team and they went to the NFCCG, would have been the Super Bowl if not for Kyle Williams. You think Matt Moore goes to the Super Bowl on the 49ers last season?



Smith had three bad years, no one is denying that. My question is why are his early years better indicators of his current level than his most recent years?

For the record, I think Moore should get a chance to start somewhere. He can't be any worse than what the Chiefs or Jets fielded this year.

Because these lists rely on consistency, not a flash in the pan season. Or half season in Smiths case this year.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

Let's not look at recent trends, instead lets put more weight on a #1 pick coming in starting for an awful team, getting injured, and having more instability at coaching than perhaps any team in the league.

Oh, then a good coach comes in and suddenly it's his fault for turning his game around with stability and a brilliant mind.

He could boom or bust with his next team, but completely writing off Smith's past two seasons is stupid.

Oh, I'm not writing him off. I'm just annoyed at the talk of him being a top QB in here. I think he's basically evolved into Chad Pennington. Put the goods around him and he'll be a really accurate guy who never makes a flashy play. You can win some games like that, but he's not going to be "the dude" that turns a bad team around, or anything close to it.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Because these lists rely on consistency, not a flash in the pan season. Or half season in Smiths case this year.

He has been pretty good now, and improving on it, for about two years. He has 38 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, 63% completion, 7.4 YPA, 95 passer rating, and a 22-6 record in his last 30 starts (throwing out the two games he got injured and didn't finish).

How are guys like Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck, RG3, and Tannehill even ranked if these lists rely on consistency? Heck, until this postseason Joe Flacco was considered by most to be a amazingly average QB but one postseason apparently vaults him easily into the top 10. What about Matt Stafford? He was awful his rookie year, good before getting injured after three games his second year, great his third year, and pretty bad his fourth year. Talk about consistency.

I don't think Smith is better than either of those guys, or the young QBs I mentioned, but clearly consistency isn't the argument here.

[WinslowBodden]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Oh, I'm not writing him off. I'm just annoyed at the talk of him being a top QB in here. I think he's basically evolved into Chad Pennington. Put the goods around him and he'll be a really accurate guy who never makes a flashy play. You can win some games like that, but he's not going to be "the dude" that turns a bad team around, or anything close to it.

And while I understand that, the only point I've been trying to make in this thread is that I think the Browns would be better off with him than Weeden. I think if our run game develops and our defense improves, we have a very good offensive line that he could work with and some talented young receivers.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Oh, I'm not writing him off. I'm just annoyed at the talk of him being a top QB in here. I think he's basically evolved into Chad Pennington. Put the goods around him and he'll be a really accurate guy who never makes a flashy play. You can win some games like that, but he's not going to be "the dude" that turns a bad team around, or anything close to it.

Who is talking about him being a top QB? I probably rate him higher than anyone else and I put him around 12, and I am reluctant to do that after he only played half of the season but it is hard not to given his performance over the last two years.

I don't think Smith is anywhere close to a QB that can turn an entire franchise around nor do I think he is a QB I would want to bring my team back from down two scores or more on a consistent basis. I think there are only a handful of guys like that in the league.

Smith is a guy that isn't going to lose games for you, though, and can make plays to win games in key situations, just not every week. That is way better than what half of the teams in the NFL currently have. Put him on a decent team with a bad QB, like the Browns, and they are a playoff contender. Put him on a bad team like the Jaguars and they are at least competitive and mediocre.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by WinslowBodden

And while I understand that, the only point I've been trying to make in this thread is that I think the Browns would be better off with him than Weeden. I think if our run game develops and our defense improves, we have a very good offensive line that he could work with and some talented young receivers.

This is a true story.

You'd also be better off with Matt Moore, Chad Henne, Kyle Orton, or a lot of other guys, too. Brandon Weeden is atrocious.

Personally, I think there's a QB out there that is a perfect fit for your personnel and for Chudzinski. You guys should be offering the house to the Ravens for Joe Flacco. I think your offensive guys + Flacco = top 10 in scoring. I think his deep ball scares DCs enough to get a guy out of the box, which will make your running game a hell of a lot more effective, too.

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

He has been pretty good now, and improving on it, for about two years. He has 38 touchdowns, 11 interceptions, 63% completion, 7.4 YPA, 95 passer rating, and a 22-6 record in his last 30 starts (throwing out the two games he got injured and didn't finish).

How are guys like Kaepernick, Wilson, Luck, RG3, and Tannehill even ranked if these lists rely on consistency? Heck, until this postseason Joe Flacco was considered by most to be a amazingly average QB but one postseason apparently vaults him easily into the top 10. What about Matt Stafford? He was awful his rookie year, good before getting injured after three games his second year, great his third year, and pretty bad his fourth year. Talk about consistency.


I don't think Smith is better than either of those guys, or the young QBs I mentioned, but clearly consistency isn't the argument here.

Because they are expected to grow, they have a ceiling which they havent reached. These are one year players, not guys who have been in the league for multiple seasons like Smith. People are logically assuming that these guys are going to continue to grow as they learn the NFL defenses and their respective systems in the ensuing years which is why they'll take them over Smith. Theyeve shown more in their first year than Smith has shown pretty much ever. Maybe a compiled list of stats wont show that, but anyone with a pair of eyes will tell you thats the case, its why as rookies they got the starting job right away. It really isn't hard to figure out that these guys already have shown more room for elite potential than Smith has ever. Idk what else to say about that, if you would take Smith over any of those rookies, youre a bigger homer than I thought.

No one has argued that Joe hasn't looked average before this season, his average however was still more consistent than what Smith was outputting, and it brought his team to the playoffs every single year. Pretty large discrepancy there.

Stafford, well he beat out Shaun Hill which we all know is pretty much the measuring stick for starting QB criteria.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by Monomach

Matt Moore had one bad year starting.

How many did Alex Smith have?

Alex Smith had to re-learn a new playbook and offensive scheme year after year bc the Niners changed OCs. He had stability for 2 years under Norv Turner and that 2nd year in the offense, he had his best season, when he was young. Then the consistent turnover came along with poor coaching from Nolan and Singltary.

Smith was a top prospect coming out. He's got the intangibles. He doesn';t have a rocket arm like Kaepernick, Freeman, etc. But how has he played the last 2 seasons? He's also got a chip on his shoulder about how things went over in San Fransisco.

Matt Moore is a good back up. Their is a reason he didn't start for Miami. He's guy I think can l;ead a team to a record no better than 7-9. He's your typical bridge QB on a young and up and coming team who just drafted a rookie QB.

[JeffSamardzijaIRISH]

It's not as if Smith was a bum just dumping it off to the running back as well. He made some pretty damn good throws in the past two years.

[Brodeur]

I'd gladly take Smith for the future over any QB in this draft.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH

It's not as if Smith was a bum just dumping it off to the running back as well. He made some pretty damn good throws in the past two years.

7.9 YPA is no "captain Check down" in my book. Not only that, he was hitting 70% of his passes while doing it.

[Monomach]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Alex Smith had to re-learn a new playbook and offensive scheme year after year bc the Niners changed OCs. He had stability for 2 years under Norv Turner and that 2nd year in the offense, he had his best season, when he was young. Then the consistent turnover came along with poor coaching from Nolan and Singltary.

Smith was a top prospect coming out. He's got the intangibles. He doesn';t have a rocket arm like Kaepernick, Freeman, etc. But how has he played the last 2 seasons? He's also got a chip on his shoulder about how things went over in San Fransisco.

Matt Moore is a good back up. Their is a reason he didn't start for Miami. He's guy I think can l;ead a team to a record no better than 7-9. He's your typical bridge QB on a young and up and coming team who just drafted a rookie QB.

Yeah, Matt Moore has definitely had the same system and stability all through his carrer.

Let's look at Alex's 2011 when he had 445 attempts...

3144 yards
17 tds
5 ints

Let's take Matt Moore's 2011 (first year in the system, btw) and project it from the 347 attempts he got to the 445 Smith got...

3204 yards
20 tds
11 ints

OMG ALEX SMITH IS A TOP 12 QB AND MATT MOORE IS A BACKUP.

Let's take Moore and project it to Matt Stafford's 727 attempts...

5234 yards
34 tds
19 ints

****, I think Matt Moore just made the pro bowl.

You really want to bring up someone's draft stock from almost a decade ago as a selling point?

The fact of the matter is that Matt Moore has had the opportunity to start for two half seasons and 2/3 of another. He was good for all but a half of a season.

[Brodeur]

I bet you can't project Moore's numbers throwing side arm 20% of the time. That takes some effort.

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

Because they are expected to grow, they have a ceiling which they havent reached. These are one year players, not guys who have been in the league for multiple seasons like Smith. which is why they'll take them over Smith. Theyeve shown more in their first year than Smith has shown pretty much ever. Maybe a compiled list of stats wont show that, but anyone with a pair of eyes will tell you thats the case, its why as rookies they got the starting job right away. It really isn't hard to figure out that these guys already have shown more room for elite potential than Smith has ever. Idk what else to say about that, if you would take Smith over any of those rookies, youre a bigger homer than I thought.

I clearly just said I wouldn't take Smith over any of them. My question was that is it is about consistency, like you said, then we would you take them over Smith? You are contradicting yourself.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but going into last year Smith had started a grand total of 50 games. It is not like he was some 8th year, 5th round pick who had always been average and never shown any flashes of being a good QB. Smith made a massive improvement from his first year to his second year, and definitely showed potential that second year. Then he suffered a serious shoulder injury and he was basically done. The 49ers came in his next season with an open competition, a mediocre team, and a head coach that was trying to offer Smith up as a scapegoat. Smith still performed fairly average in a very bad situation.

In comes Harbaugh. He gives Smith a good system, stability, and confidence. Smith has a fairly good year and the 49ers go to the NFCCG, barely missing the Super Bowl. Harbaugh stays and for the first time in his career, other than under Jimmy Raye, Smith gets to play in the same offense for consecutive years. Lo and behold Smith has by far the best season of his career. Your statement,

People are logically assuming that these guys are going to continue to grow as they learn the NFL defenses and their respective systems in the ensuing years

Why does this apply to other QBs but not Smith?

No one has argued that Joe hasn't looked average before this season, his average however was still more consistent than what Smith was outputting, and it brought his team to the playoffs every single year. Pretty large discrepancy there.

Flacco was also on a team with a very good defense and very good running game in that span, something that is apparently held against Smith now. On a mediocre team with awful, awful coaching in 2009-2010 Smith looked average.