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Old 04-03-2007, 01:54 AM    (permalink
TheChampIsHere
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1. Champ
2. Mathis
3. McCalister
4. Newman
5. Lucas (coming off a down year I know)
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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1. Champ Baily
2. RaShean Mathis
3. Antione Winfield
4. Asante Samuel
5. Al Harris
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:27 AM    (permalink
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1.Champ Bailey
2.Chris McAllister
3.Rasheen Mathis
4.Lito Sheppard
5.Asaunta (Not sure how to spell it) Samuel
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:57 AM    (permalink
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My top 4 hasn't changed, and I'm still uncertain on 5.

1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAllister
3. Rashean Mathis
4. Nnamdi Asomugha

Still not sure on 5. If we're basing on last year, I'm tempted to say Al Harris still, but certainly valid debate on a whole number of guys. If we are projecting, then a whole number of guys could enter the equation as well, since it's hard to imagine Harris getting much better considering the age.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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Anyone who has nate clements in their top 5 should be raped... That guy is a tier two starting CB.
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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1 - Champ Bailey
2 - Al Harris
3 - Ronde Barber
4 - Antoine Winfield
5 - Nnamdi Asomugha
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Old 04-03-2007, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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1.Champ Bailey
2.Chris McAllister
3.Rasheen Mathis
4.Terrence Newman
5.Nate Clements
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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I think that we are all forgetting some of the small team coornerbacks that are good;

1) Champ Bailey
2) Dunta Robinson
3) Rashean Mathis
4) Nnamdi Asmugha
5) Asante Samuel

Also I can't understand how you rate Nate Clements so high even though he's only made the Pro Bowl once and as an alternate. It just seems like and odd choice.
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:20 AM    (permalink
Bengals1690
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talent wise, the top 5 corners are

champ
mathis
pac man
mcalister
ashomuga (sp?)
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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1. Champ Bailey, He’s on another level.

2. Rashean Mathis, He is for real, he doesn’t get beat very often, complete player.

3. Asante Samuel, He seems to get better each game.

4. Chris McAllister, getting older but is still one of the best.

5. Nnamdi Asomugha, after last season how could I not rank him top 5
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Who are the five best corners of all time? Think about it. Newman... Newman, Newman, Newman, and Newman. Because he spits hot fire.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
speaking of... did cowboys fans finally kill and cannibalize TNewFan?
One can only hope.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
speaking of... did cowboys fans finally kill and cannibalize TNewFan?
lmao, a couple of days ago he said something like "this forum sucks, nobody listens to me, I'm just wasting my time here", and the universal response on our board was "you're barely figuring this out?" I haven't seen him post since then, but it's possible that he's still lurking in the shadows.

As for the CB debate....I always wonder why this one is so over-done. You see at least one thread of its type turn up every month or two, and basically the same conversation happens.

Last off-season, it was to the point that I wanted to gouge my eyes out every time this subject came up, and Terrence Newman got a bad name on these forums because of TNewfan (who was then known as Baskalonis, or something like that) and the rest of us Cowboy fans arguing that he deserved recognition. Now, I suppose 50% of people having him in their top 5 will have to do. I'm certainly not going to complain with how far things have come, but I certainly think that there is no one clearly better than him in the league. I think Champ is overrated, and McCalister is underrated. I would say the top tier of CBs is Newman, Champ and Chris, followed by a second tier of guys including Mathis, Ronde, Clements, Asomugha, and Pacman(based on his play last season, even though he might not play this year).

It's fascinating watching the on-going discussion with the Carolina CBs. Last season at this time they were the majority selection for best tandem in the NFL. Lucas was a great all-around guy, while Gamble was a magnificent talent who was poised to take his game to another level. As the season wore on and they underachieved or played badly, people began to splinter on who was at fault, who was a scrub and who didn't deserve to be blamed for the whole thing. Now, you pretty much cannot find two Panther fans to agree on who is a good player, who needs to be gotten rid of, and who will rebound from his particular struggles. Personally, my observation is that Gamble got burned continually in all facets of the game last season, though he is probably the better athlete of the 3. Lucas might deserve some slack because of the injury, but he still didn't play great when he was on the field. I really, really like Marshal. I can't wait to see where it goes from here.
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Old 04-03-2007, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine View Post
lmao, a couple of days ago he said something like "this forum sucks, nobody listens to me, I'm just wasting my time here", and the universal response on our board was "you're barely figuring this out?" I haven't seen him post since then, but it's possible that he's still lurking in the shadows.

As for the CB debate....I always wonder why this one is so over-done. You see at least one thread of its type turn up every month or two, and basically the same conversation happens.

Last off-season, it was to the point that I wanted to gouge my eyes out every time this subject came up, and Terrence Newman got a bad name on these forums because of TNewfan (who was then known as Baskalonis, or something like that) and the rest of us Cowboy fans arguing that he deserved recognition. Now, I suppose 50% of people having him in their top 5 will have to do. I'm certainly not going to complain with how far things have come, but I certainly think that there is no one clearly better than him in the league. I think Champ is overrated, and McCalister is underrated. I would say the top tier of CBs is Newman, Champ and Chris, followed by a second tier of guys including Mathis, Ronde, Clements, Asomugha, and Pacman(based on his play last season, even though he might not play this year).

It's fascinating watching the on-going discussion with the Carolina CBs. Last season at this time they were the majority selection for best tandem in the NFL. Lucas was a great all-around guy, while Gamble was a magnificent talent who was poised to take his game to another level. As the season wore on and they underachieved or played badly, people began to splinter on who was at fault, who was a scrub and who didn't deserve to be blamed for the whole thing. Now, you pretty much cannot find two Panther fans to agree on who is a good player, who needs to be gotten rid of, and who will rebound from his particular struggles. Personally, my observation is that Gamble got burned continually in all facets of the game last season, though he is probably the better athlete of the 3. Lucas might deserve some slack because of the injury, but he still didn't play great when he was on the field. I really, really like Marshal. I can't wait to see where it goes from here.
I think you and me are pretty much in agreement on this topic (if you noticed, I stayed away from this one because of the redundancy and the blind homerism that would follow).

But Champ isn't overrated. He's basically Newman + the ability to pick it off. Thats the one thing that I dislike about Newman. He's not great at INTs. He's a pure "cover the body" type of defender. And that results in basically no balls thrown his way, and he smothers his guy, and thats great, but its a double edged sword because he doesn't pick it off as much as you'd like out of a shut down corner.

Ive said before I have him in the top 3 though. I think Aso has potential to creep past him, but right here right now Newman is the 3rd best in the league imo.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Terrence Newman
4. Rashean Mathis
5. Antoine Winfield (love this guy)
6. Nnamdi Asomugha

Winfield never gets anywhere near the attention he deserves. Easily the best run stopper in the league at CB.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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I have an issue with "corner debates." There is no position, more subjective in the whole game of football. Not only is it difficult to pinpoint, who is good, who isn't, but the position fluctuates so often.

For example; Champ Bailey had a down '04 season, he was "burnt" by Chad Johnson for 150 and a TD, and then Jerry Porter, both in prime time games. Because of that, it became in vogue to call him overrated, and probably justifiably so. Then, this year he was fantastic, living up to his billing.

Nate Clements played horribly in '05. Then he has a big '06, and gets a top tier contract for his position.

DeAngelo Hall had a poor November, including a high profile game in which he didn't play well. Prior to that, several analysts noted that Hall was right up there with Champ Bailey, because of how great he was in the final half of '05, first half of '06. But because everyone is clouded by short term memory, they jumped off the band-wagon.

Ken Lucas, Leigh Bodden, were fantastic in '05. They both had injury riddled seasons, so they are forgotten.

Nnamdi Asomugha had a great year, from one point of view. I could make a case that he was on a defense that was rarely thrown upon, thus he was under less duress than other corners. They were the least passed on team, in all of the NFL. I think everyone may be too quick to anoint.

I could go on. To sum it up; I am tired of the discussion. It's fruitless, inane banter.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
I have an issue with "corner debates." There is no position, more subjective in the whole game of football. Not only is it difficult to pinpoint, who is good, who isn't, but the position fluctuates so often.

For example; Champ Bailey had a down '04 season, he was "burnt" by Chad Johnson for 150 and a TD, and then Jerry Porter, both in prime time games. Because of that, it became in vogue to call him overrated, and probably justifiably so. Then, this year he was fantastic, living up to his billing.

Nate Clements played horribly in '05. Then he has a big '06, and gets a top tier contract for his position.

DeAngelo Hall had a poor November, including a high profile game in which he didn't play well. Prior to that, several analysts noted that Hall was right up there with Champ Bailey, because of how great he was in the final half of '05, first half of '06. But because everyone is clouded by short term memory, they jumped off the band-wagon.

Ken Lucas, Leigh Bodden, were fantastic in '05. They both had injury riddled seasons, so they are forgotten.

Nnamdi Asomugha had a great year, from one point of view. I could make a case that he was on a defense that was rarely thrown upon, thus he was under less duress than other corners. They were the least passed on team, in all of the NFL. I think everyone may be too quick to anoint.

I could go on. To sum it up; I am tired of the discussion. It's fruitless, inane banter.

Shush you. Im leaving part of this topic for my upcoming truths thread. Although I wouldn't be surprised if my truth from this topic winds up being on your list too...
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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1. Champ Bailey
2. Rashean Mathis
3. Asante Samuel
4. Nnamdi Asomugha
5. Terrence Newman
5a. Chris Mcalister (Still a great corner, but old.)
5b. Deangelo Hall (Great 1st half, but did horrid 2nd half, but he'll restore to his sophmore season form.)
5c. Charles Woodson(Pretty sick year, 8 ints, 3-4 FF, 60+ tackles.)
5d. Ken Lucas (Injury plagued his season)

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Old 04-03-2007, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
I have an issue with "corner debates." There is no position, more subjective in the whole game of football. Not only is it difficult to pinpoint, who is good, who isn't, but the position fluctuates so often.

For example; Champ Bailey had a down '04 season, he was "burnt" by Chad Johnson for 150 and a TD, and then Jerry Porter, both in prime time games. Because of that, it became in vogue to call him overrated, and probably justifiably so. Then, this year he was fantastic, living up to his billing.

Nate Clements played horribly in '05. Then he has a big '06, and gets a top tier contract for his position.

DeAngelo Hall had a poor November, including a high profile game in which he didn't play well. Prior to that, several analysts noted that Hall was right up there with Champ Bailey, because of how great he was in the final half of '05, first half of '06. But because everyone is clouded by short term memory, they jumped off the band-wagon.

Ken Lucas, Leigh Bodden, were fantastic in '05. They both had injury riddled seasons, so they are forgotten.

Nnamdi Asomugha had a great year, from one point of view. I could make a case that he was on a defense that was rarely thrown upon, thus he was under less duress than other corners. They were the least passed on team, in all of the NFL. I think everyone may be too quick to anoint.

I could go on. To sum it up; I am tired of the discussion. It's fruitless, inane banter.
Ranking them by tiers makes a lot more sense.
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Even with tiers, it becomes a sticky issue. How exactly do you quantify it? By recent performance? By body of work? By metrics? By the eye test?
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Old 04-03-2007, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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The thing i go by is by the body of work...sure if you have been in the league two years....but only 1/2 of your time in the NFL was good(HALL) he cant honestly be measured or ranked close to champ (who is a 7 time probowler, 3 time all-pro...and had 3 bad games....in 3 years....champ has been the best for a while now....and he isnt going to magically fall off....and stats dont lie...NO CB IN HISTORY HAS HAD MORE INTS in 2 years then champ....so dont try to call him overated...becasue deion sanders supposedly the best cover CB still didnt have more then champ did...and with bly champ will get more chances)
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mike View Post
how is Newman that high

1. bailey
2. mathis
3. mccalister
4. sheppard
5. clements
Because he is that good, easily better than sheppard. Oh and please guys, lets not turn this into a Newman vs. Hall debate, and leave to to Top 5 CBs debate.

Anway, here is mine:

1. Bailey
2. McAlister
3. Newman
4. Mathis
5. Samuel/Asomugha
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
The thing i go by is by the body of work...sure if you have been in the league two years....but only 1/2 of your time in the NFL was good(HALL) he cant honestly be measured or ranked close to champ (who is a 7 time probowler, 3 time all-pro...and had 3 bad games....in 3 years....champ has been the best for a while now....and he isnt going to magically fall off....and stats dont lie...NO CB IN HISTORY HAS HAD MORE INTS in 2 years then champ....so dont try to call him overated...becasue deion sanders supposedly the best cover CB still didnt have more then champ did...and with bly champ will get more chances)
Someone sees the light! Thank you for realizing, Hall has only been good for 1/2 the time he was in the league. The other 1/2 he got toreched.

And if you want to know about Newman, he has been in the league 4 years, and played like a pro-bowler 3 years, and had a below average year in his 2nd season because of an injury, but he wasn't torched. Oh and by the way, Dallas had a horrible pass rush, and he was still dominant.. I expect Newman to have a huge year this year though because we will get a ton of pressure with Wade Phillips' genius.

Oh and Shiver makes some great points, CB is a very hard position to judge.
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:22 PM    (permalink
Achilles33
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DeAngelo > Newman
LMAO, ok. Let's not turn this into a Hall vs. Newman debate, because that would be stupid, and Hall would get owned.

Back to the top 5 CBs. To all of you who think Newman isn;t good at getting INTs, thats not entirely true. First, he never gets thrown it, and you can't intercept what insn't there, and second we had no pass rush. I think this is Newman's defining year, because Wade Phillips will get us pressure. It will tell us if Newman is a shut down CB who doesn't get a lot of INT's, or a shut down guy who gets picks as well but suffered from no pass rush and never being thrown at. Either way, he is still top 3.

Last edited by Achilles33 : 04-03-2007 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 04-03-2007, 02:46 PM    (permalink
JCutlery
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Champ Bailey

Chris McAlister
Rashean Mathis
DeAngelo Hall
Terrance Newman
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Last edited by JCutlery : 04-03-2007 at 02:47 PM. Reason: forgot about rashean
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