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Old 04-03-2007, 03:10 PM    (permalink
d34ng3l021
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Originally Posted by Achilles33 View Post
LMAO, ok. Let's not turn this into a Hall vs. Newman debate, because that would be stupid, and Hall would get owned.

Back to the top 5 CBs. To all of you who think Newman isn;t good at getting INTs, thats not entirely true. First, he never gets thrown it, and you can't intercept what insn't there, and second we had no pass rush. I think this is Newman's defining year, because Wade Phillips will get us pressure. It will tell us if Newman is a shut down CB who doesn't get a lot of INT's, or a shut down guy who gets picks as well but suffered from no pass rush and never being thrown at. Either way, he is still top 3.

I just figured I would start the fire. Heh.

But you cant really say Hall had a bad 1/2 career and a good half career. He has only played for 3 years...By saying half of this and half of that, it isnt saying much at all.

Rookie:
First half: Didnt play (injury)
Second half: Solid

Sophmore
First half: Solid
Second Half: Great

3rd year
First half: Great
Second half: Bad

And now that he has the same guy who coached Deion Sanders (or utilized Deion Sanders porperly), I dont see him doing worse than he has.
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Newman is also coached by Deion. And Halls first half of this season was good, not great, and his second have was horrid, not bad. But like I said in the other thread, I agree with you that he has great upside, and if he plays like he did in his 2nd season for the rest of his career, he is easily a 1st ballot HOFer, but we will have to wait and see.

But Newman is the better CB, you have to admit that.
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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LMAO, ok. Let's not turn this into a Hall vs. Newman debate, because that would be stupid, and Hall would get owned.
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But Newman is the better CB, you have to admit that.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:02 PM    (permalink
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Newman is also coached by Deion. And Halls first half of this season was good, not great, and his second have was horrid, not bad. But like I said in the other thread, I agree with you that he has great upside, and if he plays like he did in his 2nd season for the rest of his career, he is easily a 1st ballot HOFer, but we will have to wait and see.

But Newman is the better CB, you have to admit that.
Shrug. He is the better cover corner. If I were to pick a corner for a team, I would pick Hall because of his ability to get picks, his playmaking skills, and age.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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You caught me. ;)

Oh and yea hall is younger, but I really don't know about playmaking skills. Newman is a playmaker he just doesn't get the chance. We will have to wait and see, but even if Hall is a better playmaker, I would rather have the other teams best WR competely shut down from the game and have like 1 catch, that having an INT but also a TD given up. That is just my way of thinking. Hall has shown he can be good, he just has to do it over a whole season. We will see how this year unfolds, but as of right now, there is no debate in who is better, and it's clearly Newman.

Top 5:

Bailey
McAlister
Newman
Mathis
Asomugha/Samuel

Hall can be there if he puts it together for a full season.

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Old 04-03-2007, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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And Halls first half of this season was good, not great,
Wrong. He had four interceptions, eight PBUs, yielded no touchdowns, on the top rated pass defense in football. The only positive production teams had on Atlanta's secondary, was against Webster. Scouts Inc. said that, as of the 1Q of the season, he and Bailey were heads and shoulders above every other corner. If you go back to that time period, there was debate between Hall, Bailey, as to whom was playing better at the time.

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and his second have was horrid, not bad.
He had a couple horrid games, against Pittsburgh, New Orleans, Dallas. Overall, it was very poor. but I think it's an overstatement to say he was horrible game in, game out.

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But Newman is the better CB, you have to admit that.
He was more consistent, and in terms of the body of work, Newman did better in '06.

I'm just irritated that people think Hall was burnt often. I guess that's what happens when you do get 'burned,' it's on high profile games. He was flat out amazing in the final ten games of '05, first five games of this past year, and had a bumpy stretch. But, a lot of corners have those moments. It isn't anything new. As I alluded to, earlier. I didn't even post all the moments I could think of, where a so-called 'elite' corner had a hard time for a portion of his career.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:48 PM    (permalink
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Shiver... my brother. You're letting them draw you in.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, probably.
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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i cant believe i read through this whole thing and only saw ronde barbers name ONCE. He is an al around great corner who can catch, cover, tackle and blitz. granted he's losing a step with age but he is better than al harris, gamble and lucas, and the Oakland guy whos name i dont feel like spelling
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Old 04-03-2007, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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You are amazing Shiver.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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i cant believe i read through this whole thing and only saw ronde barbers name ONCE. He is an al around great corner who can catch, cover, tackle and blitz. granted he's losing a step with age but he is better than al harris, gamble and lucas, and the Oakland guy whos name i dont feel like spelling
Barber is the best Cover 2 corner, I doubt many would argue that. He does not get much credit from the average fan, because they only appreciate man CBs, even though Ronde is one of the best at what he does.

Don't feed the troll, Shiver. I did it with TNew, and he went ballistic & IMed me. His exact words were: "But Newman is better, you have to admit that". Eerily similar......
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:20 PM    (permalink
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Yes, Newman was better in '06, making him better, right now. Oh and Newman was better in '05 too. I know Hall was great, but Newman didn't allow 1 TD all season, and NFL record, first time in NFL history actually. Hall and Newman both desevred the pro-bowl in '05.

Anway, Newman is better right now. We all agree on that. Hall can be great too, he just needs to be WAY more consistant. Guys, I like Hall, he has to work on his attitude, especially when he gets beat, no need to throw a fit, but he is a solid CB, with the tools to be great. Hopefully he doesn't screw it up.

If you want Hall mentioned, then fine:

1.Bailey
2.McAlister
3.Newman
4.Mathis
5.Asomugha
6.Samuel
7.Sheppard
8.Hall
9.Bodden
10.Clements/Winfield

Oh and ETK, don't confuse me with that kid Tnewfan, I read some of his posts, and all I have to say is wow.... And if you want proof, it is a rule that you can't have more than 1 username, and it knows your IP and email adress so you can't make 2 accounts. There you go.

Last edited by Achilles33 : 04-03-2007 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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1.Bailey
2.McAlister
3.Newman
4.Mathis
5.Asomugha
6.Samuel
7.Sheppard
8.Hall
9.Bodden
10.Clements/Winfield
I find it amusing that you have Bodden ranked ahead of Ronde Barber. I would put Winfield ahead of Clements, don't get caught up in the hype of his contract. Winfield is arguably the best tackling CB, and he is great in the Cover 2.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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I agree with you that Ronde is the best cover 2 CB, but I am not sure that is a good thing. That means you rely on safety help over the top, and if there is none, your screwed. Barber is good in his system, but not much else. He is good, but not top 10 anymore, and certainly didn't deserve that pro-bowl bid.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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thank you etk. also his ability to blitz and sack QB's nevers ceaes to amaze me. when i watch other CB's blitz(it's painful, I'm a giants fan) it is pretty ugly. Ronde just has a great sense for attacking the QB.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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Yes, but I am talking about coverage. Even if you add those, Barber still doesn't crack the top 10 IMO.

Oh and ETK, don't confuse me with that kid Tnewfan, I read some of his posts, and all I have to say is wow.... And if you want proof, it is a rule that you can't have more than 1 username, and the site knows your IP and email adress so you can't make 2 accounts. There you go.
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Old 04-03-2007, 07:29 PM    (permalink
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1. Champ Bailey
2. Chris McAlister
3. Rashean Mathis
4. Terrence Newman
5. DeAngelo Hall
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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5 is way too small

1) Bailey
2) Rasheen Mathis
3) Chris McCailister
4) Nate Clements
5) Deangelo
6) Al Harris
7) Winfield
8) Newman
9) Asomugha
10) Sheppard
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Old 04-03-2007, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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5 is way too small

1) Bailey
2) Rasheen Mathis
3) Chris McCailister
4) Nate Clements
5) Deangelo
6) Al Harris
7) Winfield
8) Newman
9) Asomugha
10) Sheppard
Samuel not in your top 6 yet alone top 10?
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Yes, but I am talking about coverage. Even if you add those, Barber still doesn't crack the top 10 IMO.

Oh and ETK, don't confuse me with that kid Tnewfan, I read some of his posts, and all I have to say is wow.... And if you want proof, it is a rule that you can't have more than 1 username, and the site knows your IP and email adress so you can't make 2 accounts. There you go.
I know I was joking about TNew, I just associated you with him because you made the same comment about admitting that Newman is better.

I can understand if you think Ronde is no longer top 10, but you can't take away his Pro Bowl bid. He played consistently well all season, and he had the single-best Bucs performance of the year against the Eagles. Newman may have deserved to be in the Pro Bowl, but not over Barber. Barber deserves his credit and respect.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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Well Peanut Tillman looks like an All-Pro CB sometimes, does that count for anything? :)

But he also gets roasted (pun intended) a lot as well.:(
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:17 PM    (permalink
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TIllman is comming around, I like him.
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Old 04-03-2007, 10:19 PM    (permalink
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JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JT Jag is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Most people have Bailey, McAlister, and Mathis as the top 3.

So let's forget about the top-5 and just do this.

1. Bailey



2a. Mathis
2a-1. McAlister

Pretty much anyone except the Terrance Newman jock-hangers can agree to this.
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MJD is an exception to every rule.
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Old 04-04-2007, 07:41 AM    (permalink
UKfan
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UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.UKfan is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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Fred Thomas FTW!!!1

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XBox 360 Gamertag: Bunj1986
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Old 04-04-2007, 01:36 PM    (permalink
Achilles33
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Achilles33 smells like sex panther.Achilles33 smells like sex panther.Achilles33 smells like sex panther.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remix 6 View Post
Samuel not in your top 6 yet alone top 10?
And D-Hall is in your top 5? What sport have you been watching?
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