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Old 02-03-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
Sherman goes around and asks NFL fans who he believes is the better corner in the league right now, himself or Revis.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...est-cornerback
"Richard Sherman is too fat and slow!!!"
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...-52-yard-catch

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...deep-touchdown

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ouchdown-catch


Until this stops happening fairly regularly Sherman will never be in Revis's caliber, and it's not like he's all of a sudden going to get wheels to prevent this from happening.
Good stuff..... in fairness, those plays resulted because Sherman wasn't able to illegally hold/tug/shove the WR well enough beyond the 5-yard mark like he usually does effectively.
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Old 02-03-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...-52-yard-catch

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...deep-touchdown

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...ouchdown-catch


Until this stops happening fairly regularly Sherman will never be in Revis's caliber, and it's not like he's all of a sudden going to get wheels to prevent this from happening. Plus, he avoided multiple additional plays like this because of bad throws. As teams keep seeing plays like the ones above, they will not stop challenging Sherman vertically, and if he doesn't have safety help over the top he'll likely continue to struggle.

That alone takes him out of Revis's class.
Fairly regularly?

You just showed a quarter of the yards he gave up for the entire year. he allowed a 41.1 QB rating. He's not getting beat "fairly regularly" for giant gains.

Please don't make me defend Richard Sherman. I hate him. He's almost 75% of the jagoff that Cortland Finnegan is.

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Old 02-03-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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Fairly regularly?

You just showed a quarter of the yards he gave up for the entire year. he allowed a 41.1 QB rating. He's not getting beat "fairly regularly" for giant gains.

Please don't make me defend Richard Sherman. I hate him. He's almost 75% of the jagoff that Cortland Finnegan is.
He doesn't necessarily get beat for giant gains all the time, but he's shown that he is vulnerable on vertical patterns because he lacks top end speed, and that trend started to show more in the playoffs. It's clear as day in those clips. If you want to pretend that he's as good as Revis that's your prerogative. I don't like defending Revis any more than you like defending Sherman, but anyone who watches the 2 of them, and comes away thinking that Sherman is an equivalent player doesn't watch closely enough.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geC91sUvo88

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dRz9WCgXRU

Revis never gets beat either.

And that Roddy White TD, you seem to forget that was the 4th time they went at Sherman deep, he knocked down the first 3 before finally getting beat.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
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Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geC91sUvo88

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dRz9WCgXRU

Revis never gets beat either.

And that Roddy White TD, you seem to forget that was the 4th time they went at Sherman deep, he knocked down the first 3 before finally getting beat.
You mean one of those breakups where he was cleanly beaten by White for what should have been a TD had Ryan thrown it properly?

Listen I have nothing against Sherman, and I think he's one of the 5 best CB's in the NFL, but he does have a noticeable flaw in his game. He benefits by having some fairly rangy safeties to help him out over the top, and has some freedom to defend passes more aggressively that guys like Revis don't have. Revis is a superior cover corner. Has he been beaten 3 or 4 times in his career, of course. Sherman however was beaten multiple times last year, and it has to be somewhat of a concern going forward as teams adapt how they play against him.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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This is where I disagree with you. Saying he has a "major flaw" because he got beat deep 3 times in 18 games, but you completely ignore all the deep ball INTs and pass breakups. It's hilarious really.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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No, what is hilarious is how some of you are acting like Sherman is the best CB in the game and a HoF candidate already. He's a good CB, but he's not the best in the game. Could he be? Maybe, but he isn't right now, so you should pump the brakes a bit.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:57 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
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This is where I disagree with you. Saying he has a "major flaw" because he got beat deep 3 times in 18 games, but you completely ignore all the deep ball INTs and pass breakups. It's hilarious really.
He didn't really have any deep ball pass interceptions in man coverage unless you consider the ill advised throw to Deion Branch who isn't a burner by any stretch. He did have an INT against the Rams where he was in a cover 3 and made a great read to make a pick in desperation time on a guy he wasn't even covering, but again it wasn't really a 1 on 1 type INT and was a bad throw from Bradford. Most of his int's came from backshoulder type throws or broken plays where he was given more freedom to attack the ball than a guy like Revis ever would.

The fact remains that Sherman cannot excel in isolation man coverage the way that Revis does. Those 3 plays aren't the only times guys got past Sherman last season, but those 3 plays do show part of the problem. Granted his issues are similar to most CB's who would struggle in the same situation, but he cannot play man coverage deep like Revis can, and I suspect if the Seahawks tried to give him the responsibilities that the Jets give Revis he would struggle.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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I never said Sherman was the best in the game. He was the best CB that played last year though, and it wasn't really close at all. He has to prove it for a few more seasons to be compared to Revis. His 2012 season was comparable to Revis outside of 2009, but again, he has to keep this up to be in Revis' league (which I have no doubt he will.)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Revis is the better corner but there is a decent debate. It's not completely dominated like some think. For Sherman to even have an argument is a big deal.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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While Revis is certainly better, it's also difficult to compare the two because Sherman's supporting cast is so much better than Revis's current one. If the Seahawks manage to swing a trade for Revis, then people will really see the difference (though it seems like people already do).
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Revis is the better corner but at this point if I was asked who would I want on my team I would take Sherman. Younger and has had fewer injuries. I know he got pooped on in the NFCCG but he's still only 24 years old.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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While Revis is certainly better, it's also difficult to compare the two because Sherman's supporting cast is so much better than Revis's current one. If the Seahawks manage to swing a trade for Revis, then people will really see the difference (though it seems like people already do).
Did you miss the Jets hardly missing a beat without Revis?
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Apparently I did because that's news to me.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:41 PM    (permalink
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Well, the Jets did have the second ranked pass defense in the league this year with one of the worst pass rushes.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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Did you miss the Jets hardly missing a beat without Revis?
Yes because they had such a great season

The Jets only had a slightly above average pass defense last year, and it was probably the worst of the entire RR era. Just because their stats looked pretty holding the Lindley's, Henne's, Moore's, Smith's, Tannehill's, Fitzpatrick's, Locker's, Wilson's, Rivers's, and Bradford's of the world to low passing yardage numbers in their games doesn't mean they were lights out on defense.

They also got career years out of Cro and Landry, and had their worst rush defense season of the RR era by a wide margin.

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Old 02-05-2013, 08:07 PM    (permalink
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Did you miss the Jets hardly missing a beat without Revis?
I'm not really sure this directly relates to my post. Rex is a brilliant defensive coach and has made that defense top-notch, but it is by no means because it's talent-laden squad. The pass rush is awful and has been awful for quite some time. Landry wasn't bad, but our Safety duo is not near Thomas and Chancellor. Cro did great, but he also wasn't tested as much as usual, and why would you when you could attack Kyle Wilson or someone else? And why attack Kyle Wilson or the other CBs when you can just run on us? Our rush defense was abysmal. Statistically, the pass defense was made to look a lot better than it was because of that. When teams needed to pass on us, they did with relative ease.
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Old 02-06-2013, 05:53 AM    (permalink
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No, what is hilarious is how some of you are acting like Sherman is the best CB in the game and a HoF candidate already. He's a good CB, but he's not the best in the game. Could he be? Maybe, but he isn't right now, so you should pump the brakes a bit.
No one is putting him in the Hall of Fame, but Sherman was the best CB in the NFL last year. His combination of covering his side of the field and creating the second most interceptions in the league is pretty hard to argue against. 32 passes defended. 3 FF and 1 FR. Those, just on pure numbers alone, are pretty gaudy. And they stack up to what Revis has put up in his best years.

He's not nearly the same kind of cover corner Revis is, who is a technician with great strength and speed. Revis covers the best receiving option on the field... No matter who that is or what position they play. No other CB is asked to do that. No other CB is expected to be perfect throughout every defensive snap (while going up against the best player). Revis can change games in ways that no other CB has ever done. He's been doing it since his rookie season. And he's great against the run. Other corners watch tape of Revis to see how the cornerback position is supposed to be played.

Sherman was a legitimate defensive player of the year candidate. Revis tore his knee apart. Someone had the chance to make this a conversation again. Sherman did, but it's still not even close. JJ Watt has emerged as the best defensive player in the NFL. That's been Revis' title since 2009. That is the only thing up for debate regarding Revis being second best.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:12 AM    (permalink
A Perfect Score
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
No, what is hilarious is how some of you are acting like Sherman is the best CB in the game and a HoF candidate already. He's a good CB, but he's not the best in the game. Could he be? Maybe, but he isn't right now, so you should pump the brakes a bit.
Dear god, agreeing with vidae. WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO??

He's right though. Revis is just too good, folks. Anyone who thinks otherwise is craaaaaazy. I've never seen a CB with the lateral agility Revis has. Just watch his feet when he plays...Never a wasted motion. Watching him break on the ball is beautiful.

People forget that Rex Ryan's scheme relies on complex blitz packages and simple coverages - more often than not, Revis is alone out there on receivers. Not to take anything away from Sherman, who is one of the better press man corners in the NFL, but he does have Earl Thomas circling back there and gets a little more over the top support. He's a pretty clear #2 at this point, but like someone else said, there's a new #2 every year and Revis just keeps on locking em down (cept that whole knee thing, but everyone gets a booboo every now and then).
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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aaaaaaaaaaaand no one in the entire thread 'put him in the HOF' or even said he was better than a healthy Revis.

What was said was that he had the best year of any CB in the league last year which is an undeniable fact.
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