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Old 06-04-2013, 11:20 AM    (permalink
brat316
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I thought Thomas was in charge of the deep ball, and he does that really well.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by brat316 View Post
I thought Thomas was in charge of the deep ball, and he does that really well.
It's easy to be in charge of the deep ball when you have a.) stifling press man coverage on the outside edges by two elite press corners AND simultaneously b.) quick pressure off the edge from Irvin and Clemons

Look what happened in the Falcons game in the playoffs. Clemons was missing for that game, so the pressure wasn't as strong as it had been in the regular season. What happens? Matt Ryan can make throws down-field all day. Thomas gets exposed when he doesn't have the benefit of elite pass rush off the edge playing in front of him and actually has to, you know, do something.

Now I'm not saying that Earl Thomas is complete garbage. But he's average or slightly above-average at best. He's a JAG in the sense that he's a small, easily-trucked-in-the-run speedy safety with limited coverage instincts. Small fast guys that get trucked in the run and don't know how to cover man-to-man are kind of a dime a dozen.

Graham, on the other hand, has flashed elite top-5 level edge rush talent in his time in the NFL, although in limited snaps.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Yet he picked off Matt Ryan in that game.

If you're gonna be wrong, at least use better examples.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Yet he picked off Matt Ryan in that game.

If you're gonna be wrong, at least use better examples.
Maybe you should actually watch the play and also not cherry pick a single play from a whole game in which Matt Ryan had his way with Seattle coverage unit?
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-h...-off-Matt-Ryan

Here's the play in question.

First thing you notice is the quick pressure up the middle from #79 (Red Bryant). This forced Matt Ryan to make a hurried throw off his back foot, across his body almost, to the far left side of the field, down the field.

The coverage from #23 (Marcus Trufant) is borderline flaggable. He stops and basically forces his man to run into his backside, preventing his WR from fighting for the jump ball that Ryan threw up in the air.

Thomas covered a fair bit of ground to get into position, but again, he's a speedy guy with little else. All this shows is that he had enough speed to get to the edge of the field on what was basically a Hail Mary esque pass. I don't see any run-stopping skills on display or any coverage skills on display. I can find a 5'10" 190lb guy who runs a 4.3 40 to cover ground all day. The rarer guys have specialized skills like man-to-man coverage (DBs) or pass rush (DEs)

I'd rather have a player like Graham who has flashed elite pass rush talent individually than someone like Thomas who needs pressure from his DLine, and coverage from his fellow DBs just to be able to run to the ball effectively.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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So you're saying he intercepted the pass right?

Ok, just checking.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
So you're saying he intercepted the pass right?

Ok, just checking.
Because circumstances and context mean nothing in your world, I guess.



Did he kill the guy with his shotgun? Give him the chair!

... Oh wait, he did it in self-defense to a robber that broke into his home brandishing a knife and threatening to kill his whole family?

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Old 06-04-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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You can smell the desperation at this point.

I also find it hilarious that you feel that you can find an Earl Thomas anywhere. If that was the case your safeties wouldn't blow so hard.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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I think one thing we can all learn from AcheTen is that damn Seattle for placing its players in a position to maximize their abilities and identifying players who fit what they want to do schematically.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
I would if I actually was wrong, but you can't disprove anything I say.
I understand why you have to say this and can't openly admit to being hilariously wrong, but on some level, you know this isn't true, right?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I understand why you have to say this and can't openly admit to being hilariously wrong, but on some level, you know this isn't true, right?
I can't wait til the 2014 offseason to bump all of these threads and I hope you will have the decency to eat some crow at that point.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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I think one thing we can all learn from AcheTen is that damn Seattle for placing its players in a position to maximize their abilities and identifying players who fit what they want to do schematically.
This is a good thing to do for the TEAM.

But that doesn't change the fact that Earl Thomas, as an individual player, is a JAG.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
You can smell the desperation at this point.

I also find it hilarious that you feel that you can find an Earl Thomas anywhere. If that was the case your safeties wouldn't blow so hard.
Your logic here is completely confused.

So because the Eagles safeties suck, Earl Thomas must be a rare talent? Ok.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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Graham, on the other hand, has flashed elite top-5 level edge rush talent in his time in the NFL, although in limited snaps.
LOL. You just can't say this about Brandon Graham until he actually proves it on a football field for an entire season. You can't extrapolate his numbers and make him elite.
Fine if you wanna believe in his potential, but right now as a pro that's all he is. Nothing more.

Earl Thomas is much better than slightly-above-average as a cover safety. He's not being hidden by a great scheme or being carried by the Seahawks pass rush and their corners. Thomas is for real. Matter of fact the Seahawks might have the best corner/safety tandem in the NFL.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I can't wait til the 2014 offseason to bump all of these threads and I hope you will have the decency to eat some crow at that point.
I hope you do bump these threads next summer, but you'll still be wrong so you probably won't...just like you never talk about the great Kevin Kolb anymore.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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LOL. You just can't say this about Brandon Graham until he actually proves it on a football field for an entire season. You can't extrapolate his numbers and make him elite.
Fine if you wanna believe in his potential, but right now as a pro that's all he is. Nothing more.
That's why I said he flashed elite pass rush talent. That's the definition of potential - you flash it on certain plays, even if you don't do it for 900+ snaps.

He played 450 some snaps and was the best pass rusher on a per snap basis last year of any defensive player. That's definitely top-5 potential over the long haul.

Cameron Wake did the exact same thing as a part time player.

Quote:
Earl Thomas is much better than slightly-above-average as a cover safety. He's not being hidden by a great scheme or being carried by the Seahawks pass rush and their corners. Thomas is for real. Matter of fact the Seahawks might have the best corner/safety tandem in the NFL.
Just because you say it, without backing up your point with any facts or study or statistics, doesn't make it true.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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This is a good thing to do for the TEAM.

But that doesn't change the fact that Earl Thomas, as an individual player, is a JAG.
I am sure I can find this in another thread you ruined with your rambling to get this answer, but which free safeties would you rate ahead of Thomas?
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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I hope you do bump these threads next summer, but you'll still be wrong so you probably won't...just like you never talk about the great Kevin Kolb anymore.
You're wrong and you'll be proven wrong on all these points. And even then you probably will be stubbornly insistent on everything you believe as group-think.

And yeah, I never liked Kevin Kolb as a player. When did I ever say anything about Kevin Kolb?
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Oh so now he's acting dumb like we all don't know that he's Thumper! Lulz

It's ok Thump. So what's the new screen name gonna be next year when you realize how incredibly wrong you were again?
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I am sure I can find this in another thread you ruined with your rambling to get this answer, but which free safeties would you rate ahead of Thomas?
I'd take any of the following safeties over Thomas right now:

Eric Weddle
Jairyus Byrd
Kenny Phillips (health concerns, but much better player)
Ed Reed (even at his age, better coverage instincts)
TJ Ward (might be SS, but i think he played FS last year)
Reggie Nelson
Reshad Jones
Major Wright
Dashon Goldson
Louis Delmas (health concerns again)
Glover Quinn
William Moore

And that's just for starters.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Oh so now he's acting dumb like we all don't know that he's Thumper! Lulz

It's ok Thump. So what's the new screen name gonna be next year when you realize how incredibly wrong you were again?
I don't know who Thumper is, but you can ask the moderators / admin about my IP address and compare it to that guy, because I have no clue who you are talking about and I am not that guy.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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You're wrong and you'll be proven wrong on all these points. And even then you probably will be stubbornly insistent on everything you believe as group-think.

And yeah, I never liked Kevin Kolb as a player. When did I ever say anything about Kevin Kolb?
lol so acknowledging JPP's special talents is now group-think, never mind that when BBD, I and a couple other posters started hyping him people where still talking about the giants wasting a pick on the biggest bust of a workout warrior this century.

Or that at that time he was getting drafted, when I was talking him up, almost everyone here did prefer Brandon Graham. But then both players got to the NFL and one proceeded to dominate despite his raw technique, while the other got injured and has yet to become more than a bit player, and the comparison became silly. Lets see Brandon Graham actually start for a year, just one, before we start comparing him to the best defender on a team that's won a SB in during his short tenure as star of our defense and the guy opposition teams focus on stopping who's still outproducing and outshining Graham.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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You know...for a "Raiders" fan, you sure loooove talking about the Eagles there Thump.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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I love light skin and white women but my main chick is brown skin
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
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lol so acknowledging JPP's special talents is now group-think, never mind that when BBD, I and a couple other posters started hyping him people where still talking about the giants wasting a pick on the biggest bust of a workout warrior this century.

Or that at that time he was getting drafted, when I was talking him up, almost everyone here did prefer Brandon Graham. But then both players got to the NFL and one proceeded to dominate despite his raw technique, while the other got injured and has yet to become more than a bit player, and the comparison became silly. Lets see Brandon Graham actually start for a year, just one, before we start comparing him to the best defender on a team that's won a SB in during his short tenure as star of our defense and the guy opposition teams focus on stopping who's still outproducing and outshining Graham.
Graham was a better player than Pierre Paul last year. The only thing that Pierre Paul had over Graham last year was more snaps.

Graham was as productive or slightly more productive, in terms of run stops, hits, hurries, sacks, qb hits than Pierre Paul was, and Graham only played half of Pierre Paul's snaps.

If Graham has a chance to start the whole season next year, he will outproduce Pierre Paul in every facet.

The fact that Pierre Paul was on a SB winning team in 2011 while Graham was on the bench means nothing about their individual talent levels. If Graham had been on a team with Eli Manning, Victor Cruz, Hakeem Nicks, Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Kenny Phillips, Corey Webster and ANtrell Rolle, he would be wearing a SB ring now too.
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