Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-04-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

You realize that the game doesn't stop happening just cause Brandon Graham is resting on the bench right? So no Brandon Graham wasn't even close to being as good as JPP last year, despite JPP doing it while playing through his serious injury. JPP was a monster who didn't need to spend half the game saving his energy to rush from the wide 9.

And the team argument kinda falls apart when the the two key differences between the iggles and giants were JPP and Eli, you had DeSean, Maclin, Shady, Cole, Babin, Aso, DRC, Samuel. What you didn't have was an Eli to make the offense purr and really dominate in crunch time, and a JPP to make plays that other players like Brandon Graham just physically can not make to get the rest of that craptastic D to finally get their **** kind of together.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

Last edited by Rosebud : 06-04-2013 at 12:11 PM.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:11 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
You realize that the game doesn't stop happening just cause Brandon Graham is resting on the bench right? So no Brandon Graham wasn't even close to being as good as JPP last year, despite JPP doing it while playing through his serious injury. JPP was a monster who didn't need to spend half the game saving his energy to rush from the wide 9.
But if your'e discussing talent levels of individual players, you can't take team accomplisments (like winning a Super Bowl, especially when most of the work was done by Eli, Cruz, Nicks, Webster, Tuck, Osi, Rolle, Phillips, etc) and use them as a benchmark for comparing the two players on an individual level.

You can say "Pierre Paul is a monster!" til you're blue in the face, but I am using actual game performance and game statistics to back up my point while you are doing nothing but using homerism to back up yours.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
And the team argument kinda falls apart when the the two key differences between the iggles and giants were JPP and Eli, you had DeSean, Maclin, Shady, Cole, Babin, Aso, DRC, Samuel. What you didn't have was an Eli to make the offense purr and really dominate in crunch time, and a JPP to make plays that other players like Brandon Graham just physically can not make to get the rest of that craptastic D to finally get their **** kind of together.
Eli vs. Vick is a huge difference and it's not even fair to compare the teams when you have the most turnover-prone QB in the NFL playing for one team and the most clutch QB in the NFl playing for the other.

Also, 5'8" Jackson vs. 6'1" Nicks as the #1 WR? Cruz vs. Jason Avant? Huge edge to the Giants there.

And lame, slow Asomugha vs. Corey Webster playing his best season ever? Not even close.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Except my homerism has some basis in reality since I'm not trying to convince everyone who saw the games that the games actually proved the opposite of what everyone saw, and that JPP wasn't the single most important piece of that defense during our SB season.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
Team Leader
Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 28,899
Reputation: 3803561
bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bigbluedefense is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

You're like a Jets fan who tried convincing himself that Ken O'Brien was better than Dan Marino.

It's quite sad.
__________________
bigbluedefense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:17 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
You're like a Jets fan who tried convincing himself that Ken O'Brien was better than Dan Marino.

It's quite sad.
You do realize it's only been 3 years right? You can't make definitive statements in 3 years. After 3 years of his career, if I told you that Dan Marino would never win a Super Bowl, you would probably call me crazy.

And again, GRAHAM actually *was* better last year than Pierre Paul. I don't see why this is so hard for you to comprehend.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:19 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Except my homerism has some basis in reality since I'm not trying to convince everyone who saw the games that the games actually proved the opposite of what everyone saw, and that JPP wasn't the single most important piece of that defense during our SB season.
I guess you missed the fact that both Osi and Tuck outplayed him completely, and got more sacks in the playoffs, and were the critical reasons the Giants beat the Packers, 49ers and Patriots.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
And again, GRAHAM actually *was* better last year than Pierre Paul. I don't see why this is so hard for you to comprehend.
I'm going to assume it's because he wasn't. He did a lot less for his team since he spent so much time on the bench, and when he did see the field, he got to be extra fresh because of his part-time role in a scheme designed for players in his position to put up inflated numbers.

But you're still having a tough time accepting that JPP was our best and most important defender when we went to the SB, and that's far more baffling than people not getting on their knees because of the per-snap production of a part time player.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:23 PM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
I'm going to assume it's because he wasn't. He did a lot less for his team since he spent so much time on the bench, and when he did see the field, he got to be extra fresh because of his part-time role in a scheme designed for players in his position to put up inflated numbers.

But you're still having a tough time accepting that JPP was our best and most important defender when we went to the SB, and that's far more baffling than people not getting on their knees because of the per-snap production of a part time player.
Did you actually watch the playoffs closely that year? Or were you just screaming at the TV the whole time?

Osi and Tuck outplayed Pierre Paul throughout the entire playoffs.

Both Osi and Tuck each had more sacks, more hurries, more hits, and more tackles than Pierre Paul throughout the 2011 playoffs. How do you explain that?
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
niel89
SuperBowl Prop Bet Winner
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 2nd deck at Stanford Stadium
Posts: 7,481
Reputation: 1673412
niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.niel89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Per snaps doesnt mean ****. Stop trying that flawed angle. You can argue potential in the near future but JPP has clearly been a much better player so far.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
Don't be a stranger. Jordyzzzz would want you to stick around. ;o)

Touch Fuzzy, Get Dizzy
niel89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Did you actually watch the playoffs closely that year? Or were you just screaming at the TV the whole time?

Osi and Tuck outplayed Pierre Paul throughout the entire playoffs.

Both Osi and Tuck each had more sacks, more hurries, more hits, and more tackles than Pierre Paul throughout the 2011 playoffs. How do you explain that?
By suggesting that you rewatch those games and start to realize that football is such a complex sport with so many changing variables that there is nothing dumber than using only numbers to compare players?

Also some reading comprehension would help, JPP continued to be the focal point and outplay those guys in the postseason, but even if that weren't the case he outplayed them so completely and thoroughly during the season in getting us to teh playoffs that even if we were in your fantasy world where they outplayed him in the playoffs, he was still vastly more important. But mostly the numbers are confusing you, just watch the film, thing.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
VernonLawson89
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vallejo, Ca
Posts: 650
Reputation: 120360
VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.VernonLawson89 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Say hello to the Mangina

__________________
VernonLawson89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2013, 05:04 PM    (permalink
mightytitan9
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,458
Reputation: 1000527
mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.mightytitan9 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
This is a classic short-sighted Andy Reid decision that we've seen over the past 3-4 years in Philly.

He overvalues a certain commodity, and then overpays for it because he feels that he is "running out of time".

Spending over a decade winning 10+ games in Philly year-in and year-out without ever winning the Super Bowl has set off an internal clock in Reid's mind.

He started making these rash decisions after the 2008 season after barely missing the Super Bowl. His slow-and-steady strategy of building in-house with home-grown talent had taken him far enough and he wanted to try the "all-in" strategy instead.

A litany of mistakes would follow: Michael Vick signing, promoting Sean McDermott only to fire him after having a top-10 defense two years straight, signing two washed up former rock-star position coaches to run the OL and DL to the detriment of the other units, drafting a 26-year old OG in the first round because he felt he needed that position badly, signing his former OL coach to run the defense, bringing in a boatload of overpaid and overrated free agents who would poison the locker room with their mercenary attitudes, and so on.

Andy Reid in KC looks to me like an extension of 2009-2012 Andy Reid in Philly.
I think the point is somewhat valid, but he was always a guy that was willing to pay players. He paid Jevon Kearse in 04, they paid Jon Runyan alot for a RT back in 2000.

The only problem was that these FA megadeals started to grow in numbers towards the end, and they started to miss more than he hit
mightytitan9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 07:56 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Boxscorescouting.com
Posts: 5,630
Reputation: 1636615
AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.AntoinCD is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
But if your'e discussing talent levels of individual players, you can't take team accomplisments (like winning a Super Bowl, especially when most of the work was done by Eli, Cruz, Nicks, Webster, Tuck, Osi, Rolle, Phillips, etc) and use them as a benchmark for comparing the two players on an individual level.

You can say "Pierre Paul is a monster!" til you're blue in the face, but I am using actual game performance and game statistics to back up my point while you are doing nothing but using homerism to back up yours.
I'm just going to ask one thing. Why, if Graham was so much better than JPP, did he only play half of the snaps?

Surely even the worst HC in history can tell if he has an elite, top 5 DE on his roster?

On a sidenote, I think it's funny to pile on Earl Thomas by saying he is a JAG who plays in a system that covers up his flaws yet blindly state Graham is an all world player despite playing in a system which is beneficial for pass rushers
AntoinCD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 08:55 AM    (permalink
jth1331
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,693
Reputation: 68586
jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jth1331 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Wait, wait, wait.
Thomas is an average JAG safety and Brandon Graham is an elite pass rusher?
What the freakin world did I get warped to?
jth1331 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 26,498
Reputation: 1514409
princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.princefielder28 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
Wait, wait, wait.
Thomas is an average JAG safety and Brandon Graham is an elite pass rusher?
What the freakin world did I get warped to?
Welcome to Thumper's world!
__________________


Follow me on Twitter! http://twitter.com/#!/aMo_Captain
princefielder28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:07 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
Wait, wait, wait.
Thomas is an average JAG safety and Brandon Graham is an elite pass rusher?
What the freakin world did I get warped to?
Do you actually watch the games?

Or do you just go by the media hype and the group-think?

I guess it's easier just to be a sheep than to actually study the game and break down the players, huh?
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I'm just going to ask one thing. Why, if Graham was so much better than JPP, did he only play half of the snaps?

Surely even the worst HC in history can tell if he has an elite, top 5 DE on his roster?

On a sidenote, I think it's funny to pile on Earl Thomas by saying he is a JAG who plays in a system that covers up his flaws yet blindly state Graham is an all world player despite playing in a system which is beneficial for pass rushers
Politics are a part of any profession, especially pro sports.

We've seen this before. Better players sit on the bench because the current starter is making a ton of money. It's the rare team like the Seahawks that can acknowledge a bad investment (Flynn) when they have a superior player making less money (Wilson).

The Eagles were thoroughly disfunctional last year and their DL coach, Jim Washburn, basically kept the DL unit separate from the rest of the team. He was also a huge proponent of Jason Babin, who was coming off a 16+ sack season. Do you tell a two-time Pro Bowler, who is your friend and who took your family with him to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl, to sit on the bench so a guy who SAT OUT 2011 can start in his place? It was probably hard enough for Babin to accept rotating with Graham.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:36 AM    (permalink
Maybe This Year Mayhew
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 548
Reputation: 40906
Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I would think JPP is doubled and schemed for alot more than Graham which may hurt his production per snap but still be very important to the Giants D. JPP is much better in run defense than Graham as well.
Maybe This Year Mayhew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maybe This Year Mayhew View Post
I would think JPP is doubled and schemed for alot more than Graham which may hurt his production per snap but still be very important to the Giants D. JPP is much better in run defense than Graham as well.
Getting "doubled" and "schemed for" is an excuse. Did you watch every snap of every game Pierre Paul played in? Did you literally count the number of times he was double-teamed or worse? And then can you do the same for Graham?

Didn't think so.

Profootballfocus at least has watched every snap and graded each player on every snap. I'm sure they factor double teams into their grade. And according to them, Graham graded out higher as a pass rusher.

Pierre Paul is a very good run defender, but Graham is no slouch either. If Pierre Paul is an "8" as a run defender, Graham is probably like a "6" or so. And because Graham is the superior pass rusher, and pass rush is 10x as important as run defense in today's NFL, I'd take Graham over Pierre Paul as a complete DE.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
Maybe This Year Mayhew
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 548
Reputation: 40906
Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Getting "doubled" and "schemed for" is an excuse. Did you watch every snap of every game Pierre Paul played in? Did you literally count the number of times he was double-teamed or worse? And then can you do the same for Graham?

Didn't think so.

Profootballfocus at least has watched every snap and graded each player on every snap. I'm sure they factor double teams into their grade. And according to them, Graham graded out higher as a pass rusher.

Pierre Paul is a very good run defender, but Graham is no slouch either. If Pierre Paul is an "8" as a run defender, Graham is probably like a "6" or so. And because Graham is the superior pass rusher, and pass rush is 10x as important as run defense in today's NFL, I'd take Graham over Pierre Paul as a complete DE.
JPP was a 10. Graham was a 6 in run D. Not even close. Per the precious PFF. And PFF does not take into account doubles in their scoring. They go by pressure per snaps.

I gurantee JPP was doubled more than Graham. Just by number of snaps even. I'll get those numbers for you though.

It's not an excuse either, it's a valid reason due to it's harder to beat doubles then beating one guy in the wide 9. Graham has alot more to prove than one year as well.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/gia...an-to-help-jpp

I'm sure Coughlin and JPP watched the Giants tape more than some random Eagles fan. Note all the extra focus on JPP is noted

Last edited by Maybe This Year Mayhew : 06-05-2013 at 11:46 AM.
Maybe This Year Mayhew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
DoughBoy
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,755
Reputation: 1468902
DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.DoughBoy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

ya know, Jake Locker is better than Andrew Luck.. he has a better completion percentage.
__________________



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurrell Casey
I love light skin and white women but my main chick is brown skin
DoughBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 787
Reputation: -30171
AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper) AcheTen (Thumper)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maybe This Year Mayhew View Post
JPP was a 10. Graham was a 6 in run D. Not even close. Per the precious PFF. And PFF does not take into account doubles in their scoring. They go by pressure per snaps.
They also have a composite grade based on TAPE STUDY in addition to their Pass Rush Productivity stat. The grade takes into consideration the assignment of the player and what he did to go beyond average production. I'm sure beating a double team is factored into that grade at some point.

Quote:
I gurantee JPP was doubled more than Graham. Just by number of snaps even. I'll get those numbers for you though.
How many times was Pierre Paul doubled PER SNAP vs. how many times was Graham doubled PER SNAP?

Quote:
It's not an excuse either, it's a valid reason due to it's harder to beat doubles then beating one guy in the wide 9. Graham has alot more to prove than one year as well.
Pierre Paul has only had one good year as well. He still has ALOT to prove before we can safely consider him a top player.
AcheTen (Thumper) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
Maybe This Year Mayhew
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 548
Reputation: 40906
Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
They also have a composite grade based on TAPE STUDY in addition to their Pass Rush Productivity stat. The grade takes into consideration the assignment of the player and what he did to go beyond average production. I'm sure beating a double team is factored into that grade at some point.



How many times was Pierre Paul doubled PER SNAP vs. how many times was Graham doubled PER SNAP?



Pierre Paul has only had one good year as well. He still has ALOT to prove before we can safely consider him a top player.
JPP has been good for several years. Assignment of the player is his role to rush the passer, drop in coverage. They do NOT take into account doubles, it's fact. They definie it as (sacks/hits/hurries)/total number of snaps for the pass rushing productivity grade.

And it's common knowledge JPP was doubled more than Graham. You're insane if you think Graham was doubled close to the amount JPP was.

Last edited by Maybe This Year Mayhew : 06-05-2013 at 11:58 AM.
Maybe This Year Mayhew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
Maybe This Year Mayhew
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 548
Reputation: 40906
Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Maybe This Year Mayhew is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Plus Pierre Paul moved around from left to right about 55/45. Graham was mainly on the left going against Right Tackles(97% of the time).
Maybe This Year Mayhew is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.