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Old 02-25-2013, 09:28 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Apparently the guy just wants to run around in circles. Ansah has been compared to JPP both physically and situationally for a long time now, yet he acts like he can't understand that. JPP ran a 4.7 at 270, Ansah ran a 4.62 at 271. They both reps 21. They are both 6'5" and there was a one pound difference between them when JPP ran.
1. Jason Pierre Paul was a transfer from community college who played less than a full season at South Florida so he had much less opportunity to shine as a starter than Ansah, who was at BYU for more than a season

2. Jason Pierre Paul has yet to really prove himself as a truly elite player in the NFL. He has had ONE season so far with more than 6.5 sacks - 2011. In his two other seasons, he has produced at a mediocre level and the DL on the Giants was bad. NFL History is filled with flukey "one year wonder" type of performances and we still literally don't know if Jason Pierre Paul was a one year wonder or not, and he still could end up with never breaking the 6.5 sack barrier ever again in his career and being an average player.

3. Even if Jason Pierre Paul is legit after being a low-production guy in college, that's exactly ONE guy out of thousands of pass rushers in NFL history to do this. There are maybe no more than 5-6 guys total in NFL history to crack the top-50 sack leaderboard without 18+ sacks in college. ever heard of "exception to the rule" and "extremely low probability"?


If you had read my original post, you would have seen this addressed already.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
No, you really didn't answer it.
Then you probably need some help with your reading comprehension. Get your tutor to help you with this quote:

Originally Posted by Black Bolt
It's pretty simple, Ansah is the exception to the rule. He is disruptive in more ways than just getting sacks. He gets pressures, he bats balls and he absolutely destroys the run just like JPP. You obviously have not seen him play much because your entire argument is based on sacks totals only.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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1. Jason Pierre Paul was a transfer from community college who played less than a full season at South Florida so he had much less opportunity to shine as a starter than Ansah, who was at BYU for more than a season

2. Jason Pierre Paul has yet to really prove himself as a truly elite player in the NFL. He has had ONE season so far with more than 6.5 sacks - 2011. In his two other seasons, he has produced at a mediocre level and the DL on the Giants was bad. NFL History is filled with flukey "one year wonder" type of performances and we still literally don't know if Jason Pierre Paul was a one year wonder or not, and he still could end up with never breaking the 6.5 sack barrier ever again in his career and being an average player.

3. Even if Jason Pierre Paul is legit after being a low-production guy in college, that's exactly ONE guy out of thousands of pass rushers in NFL history to do this. There are maybe no more than 5-6 guys total in NFL history to crack the top-50 sack leaderboard without 18+ sacks in college. ever heard of "exception to the rule" and "extremely low probability"?


If you had read my original post, you would have seen this addressed already.
You are a complete fool if you think JPP isn't an elite player at his position, end of story.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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You are a complete fool if you think JPP isn't an elite player at his position, end of story.
He's had one great year.

you do realize that there is this thing called "flukey one year wonder" and it has happened in the NFL before?

Hell, guys even have 2-3 excellent years and then do nothing else for the rest of their careers? Ever heard of Derrick Burgess?
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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He's had one great year.

you do realize that there is this thing called "flukey one year wonder" and it has happened in the NFL before?

Hell, guys even have 2-3 excellent years and then do nothing else for the rest of their careers? Ever heard of Derrick Burgess?
First of all, how would you know what a good year is when all you think a DE is supposed to do is get sacks? JPP is widely regarded as THE BEST DE against the run in the NFL. He is also versatile as he has the strength to play DT on passing down. He has the ability to disrupt blocking schemes on his own. But none of that means anything to you because you don't know football.

Secondly, if a guy has 2-3 good years, that by definition is not a fluke. A fluke is a one time unexplained occurrence. 2-3 strong years is great considering the average NFL career is 4.5 years.

Third, yeah, as a Raiders fan of 32 years, I know Derrick Burgess. I also know that he was a very good player with the Eagles who battled injuries and was not a starter for very long with them. Derrick Burgess was your example of a "fluke?" You really need to stop digging yourself a hole. JPP has been great in was is still early in his career whereas Burgess had to develop. Also, JPP had FAR greater physical attributes so there really is not comparison. Ansah is basically a JPP clone and that's why Mike Mayock has him rated about Bjoern Werner. I guess Mayock is insane like me.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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JPP is not widely considered the best run defending DE. He's good in that department though. Too much hyperbole there.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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After watching the Combine pretty extensively, I would agree about everybody in your top 10 except Werner and Lotulelie. Lotulelie because of his heart questions, at least for the moment, plus I like Floyd a lot better from what I observed, and Werner just doesn't look top 10 to me, just not enough explosion IMO.

I also have the feeling that 3 LT's are going top 10.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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After watching the Combine pretty extensively, I would agree about everybody in your top 10 except Werner and Lotulelie. Lotulelie because of his heart questions, at least for the moment, plus I like Floyd a lot better from what I observed, and Werner just doesn't look top 10 to me, just not enough explosion IMO.

I also have the feeling that 3 LT's are going top 10.
At this point, I'd switch Werner for Cooper.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:03 PM    (permalink
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JPP is not widely considered the best run defending DE. He's good in that department though. Too much hyperbole there.
I have heard that said during telecasts, but the broader point is that DE do other things besides getting sacks.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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so no pass rushers in this class will ever be good since none of them have ever gotten 16 sacks in their career. poor guys
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Old 02-26-2013, 03:39 AM    (permalink
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How many sacks did the NFL's active career sack leader have? I didn't see him mentioned with all those 30+ sack guys.

I'm speaking about DeMarcus Ware, of course.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:09 AM    (permalink
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I have heard that said during telecasts, but the broader point is that DE do other things besides getting sacks.
I've heard during telecasts that Wes Welker has hands like glue. I've heard during telecasts that Vince Young just wins. I've heard during telecasts that Tim Tebow is a good QB. I've heard in telecasts that Ray Lewis still has lots left in the tank. I've heard in telecasts that Devin Hester is on his way to being a pro bowl receiver.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:21 AM    (permalink
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I've heard it said that Blaine Gabbert is improving his pocket presence.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:09 AM    (permalink
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I've heard during telecasts that Wes Welker has hands like glue. I've heard during telecasts that Vince Young just wins. I've heard during telecasts that Tim Tebow is a good QB. I've heard in telecasts that Ray Lewis still has lots left in the tank. I've heard in telecasts that Devin Hester is on his way to being a pro bowl receiver.
That's nice, but JPP IS the best 4-3 DE against the run regardless. He makes plays on his side as well as the opposite side of the field by running down the line. I know because I watch football and I know football. If you are going to ridicule my statement, how about your give your opinion as to who the best 4-3 DE against the run is.

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...f-pierre-paul/

Pierre-Paul was every bit as dominant against the Packers last week. He has been near that A+ level all season. Itís one thing for a defensive end to be a great pass rusher. Itís another for him to also be a great run defender. Then, itís a whole other thing for him to be versatile in both facets. Pierre-Paul can rush the passer inside or outside. Heís even better all-around against the run, showing the strength to consistently anchor on the edge and the suppleness to make plays in space. In short, there isnít a more destructive defensive end in football right now.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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How many sacks did the NFL's active career sack leader have? I didn't see him mentioned with all those 30+ sack guys.

I'm speaking about DeMarcus Ware, of course.
27.5 in his career at Troy.
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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so no pass rushers in this class will ever be good since none of them have ever gotten 16 sacks in their career. poor guys
Damontre Moore, Bjoern Werner and Jarvis Jones all have 20+ college sacks in their time in college. I'd put my money on them as the most productive pass rushers to emerge from this class (barring injury).
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Old 02-26-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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Damontre Moore, Bjoern Werner and Jarvis Jones all have 20+ college sacks in their time in college. I'd put my money on them as the most productive pass rushers to emerge from this class (barring injury).
Right. Just look how much better Derrick Morgan, Brandon Graham and Jerry Hughs are than Jason Pierre Paul. Your rule is utterly foolproof.
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