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Old 02-25-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
Wootylicous
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Dion Jordan shouldn't been even touched before the 7th round based on college production.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wootylicous View Post
What the **** are you talking about Ache ?
If you're investing a valuable first round pick and first round money in a pass rusher, shouldn't he have, you know, shown the ability to rush the passer in college?

You wouldn't hire a $600k/year surgeon without medical training. You wouldn't hire a $250k/year computer programmer without a CS degree or lots of experience developing programs. You should't draft a first round pass rusher without college production either just because you think he can suddenly learn how to do it on the highest level without proving himself in lower levels.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wootylicous View Post
Dion Jordan shouldn't been even touched before the 7th round based on college production.
Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, and Ezekiel Ansah all have VERY HIGH bust potential.

In fact, I'll personally guarantee that not more than ONE of these three will even be a solid contributor in the NFL, if even that.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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He always played OLB in Pete Carroll's 4-3 defense.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:50 AM    (permalink
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If you're investing a valuable first round pick and first round money in a pass rusher, shouldn't he have, you know, shown the ability to rush the passer in college?

You wouldn't hire a $600k/year surgeon without medical training. You wouldn't hire a $250k/year computer programmer without a CS degree or lots of experience developing programs. You should't draft a first round pass rusher without college production either just because you think he can suddenly learn how to do it on the highest level without proving himself in lower levels.
I wish computer programmers made that much money.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I didn't know we were drafting surgeon on potential.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I wish computer programmers made that much money.
Me too. :(
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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I wish computer programmers made that much money.
On the highest levels they do.

I know some game programmers that make that much. Also, guys at Google and Apple.

The comparison is that Ansah is being drafted to be pass rusher on the highest possible level. The NFL is the Google / Game company of football in that analogy.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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I didn't know we were drafting surgeon on potential.
We are hiring them based on resume.

We are also drafting based on resume, or at least, if we're smart we are.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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The 10 balls was a figure of speech. I will say I did not watch all his games. But what I did see was a guy who can play slot and be a very good returner. As for his stats, and why they aren't better, it could come down to a utilization problem. By no means I am saying 1st rounder here, but I like him and think he would be a great value pick. There is no way he makes it out of the 4th. He can be a poor-mans Harvin or Cobb and with the right coaching exceed that and be a better deep threat. There a lot of ways to get him involved and a defense must respect that speed.
You're right, he probably doesn't make it out of the 4th round. I just said I wouldn't consider him before the 6th. I don't see a good football player there. With similar size and athleticism Tavon Austin is 10 times the player.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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You can't just draft players on their resume. You have to take the guy with an unlimited potential if he fits and if you think you can coach him with his work ethic and all.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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You can't just draft players on their resume. You have to take the guy with an unlimited potential if he fits and if you think you can coach him with his work ethic and all.
If you don't draft players with great college resumes, your chances of getting an elite player are slim to none.

90% of the top-50 sack leaders in NFL history had 17 or more sacks in college, and 60% of them had 30 or more sacks in college.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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So, AcheTen = JordanTaber, amirite?
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Ansah started playing football in 2010. That's ******* 3 years ago. How do you expect him to have a great college resume ?

This is insane to expect him to come his first year playing to have 10+ sacks. He ******* learned football 3 years ago. He showed that he can hang up with the most elite prospects at the senior bowl.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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So let's say we're hiring someone as a Surgeon, and he only recently started learning medical terminology in the past two years, but you're hiring him to be an emergency room surgeon at a big City Hospital to earn $600k a year?
this is the worst analogy in the history of unexplainable bad analogies.
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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this is the worst analogy in the history of unexplainable bad analogies.
My thoughts exactly
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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So basically if you don't think Ansah is JPP you're being crazy?

I dont necessarily agree with Ache. I think Mingo is a potential monster, but he's not exactly being illogical.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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If you're investing a valuable first round pick and first round money in a pass rusher, shouldn't he have, you know, shown the ability to rush the passer in college?

You wouldn't hire a $600k/year surgeon without medical training. You wouldn't hire a $250k/year computer programmer without a CS degree or lots of experience developing programs. You should't draft a first round pass rusher without college production either just because you think he can suddenly learn how to do it on the highest level without proving himself in lower levels.
Are you really comparing playing football to being a programmer? Well what "skills" do you need to play football? A lot of them are physical skills which these players have shown that they have.

Would you take a stupid person and spend years trying to teach them CS or would you spend a few months teaching a genius? There are just some people who were born with gifts thay people look for in every workplace including the nfl.

I agree for the most part with your idea that potential is a dangerous thing but this comparison is really dumb.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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I want my surgeon to have 30 years of experience.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Does Floyd have any character issues? Loving the idea of him to the Raiders at #3.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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Ansah started playing football in 2010. That's ******* 3 years ago. How do you expect him to have a great college resume ?

This is insane to expect him to come his first year playing to have 10+ sacks. He ******* learned football 3 years ago. He showed that he can hang up with the most elite prospects at the senior bowl.
If that's the case, and he actually is a great player, then I'd be happy to take in the 3rd round or later if I"m a GM.

But to take him in the 1st or 2nd round because you "think" he can become a big-time pass rusher in college despite not showing any signs of it yet, is just sheer lunacy. It's a waste of a valuable pick that could be instead spent on a proven contributor.

The draft is all about risk vs. reward and VALUE.

The value in such a RISKY GAMBLE is not there in the first round. In the third round and later, it is.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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If that's the case, and he actually is a great player, then I'd be happy to take in the 3rd round or later if I"m a GM.

But to take him in the 1st or 2nd round because you "think" he can become a big-time pass rusher in college despite not showing any signs of it yet, is just sheer lunacy. It's a waste of a valuable pick that could be instead spent on a proven contributor.
Because taking a guy like Ansah can yield better results than a "safer" more proven prospect.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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Damontre Moore 4.87 with 12 reps. Ew.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:09 AM    (permalink
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So why even have an offseason if your just going to draft on college production? How do you explain some of these pass catchers in the league right now?
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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Why is their a combine anyway ?
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