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Old 02-25-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
JoeJoeBrown
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
How many skill position player bust were there? You said "with the exception of" and listed 3 RB's, but what other highly touted RB's were bust? What highly ranked TE's were a bust? Roy was obviously a bust, Vince was but most think that had to do with what was going on in his head, Sweed was a bust, but beyond that you don't see UT coming out with a stud RB prospect every year, or stud TE. Colt McCoy was largely viewed as a back-up type QB and that's what he is.


It's just if you wanna make this argument, there should be a long list of highly ranked QB, RB, WR, and TE prospects that didn't pan out. Plus I've never, ever liked or used this argument under any circumstances. If you don't like the player, you don't like him. Assuming he'll be a bust because of where he committed is just lazy imo.


I don't know why I've heard so much talk from the combine that Goodwin is a track guy who is just playing football. He's always looked like a great football player, I'm not saying I expect him to develop into a stud WR but he can be a weapon on the field and he's a completely different WR then Roy or Sweed and even Finley(bigger, taller, slow guys) so I'm not sure why them not developing has anything at all to do with Goodwin.
I think Mack Brown does a horrible job of giving players the skills needed to succeed at their positions.

Some all world raw talent that is left to rot on the vine.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wootylicous View Post
How do you know that ? Because you believe it ?

Are you working with prospects ? Do you scout them for a team ? Are you a GM ? What do you know about prospects ?

How do you know Ansah will give you a 10% payout ? How do you know you will have a higher payout with a better reward ?
What I know is cold, hard, facts.

I looked at the history of the top-50 sack leaders in NFL history and GUESS WHAT?

90% of them had 17 or more sacks in college and 60% of them had 30 or more.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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Am I confused or is it 2013 right now and 2012 is the most recent NFL season in the books?

I heard that both Derrick Morgan and Brandon Graham were injured with ACL tears in 2010 and rehabbing in 2011. Did I hear right or am I wrong?
Yes and in 2013 JPP has proven to be the far superior player and a cornerstone of a championship defense.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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What I know is cold, hard, facts.

I looked at the history of the top-50 sack leaders in NFL history and GUESS WHAT?

90% of them had 17 or more sacks in college and 60% of them had 30 or more.
How many of them learned football in 3 years and have production ?
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
Yes and in 2013 JPP has proven to be the far superior player and a cornerstone of a championship defense.
After 3 years, Shawne Merriman was the best defensive player from the class of 2005, far better than DeMarcus Ware from that same class.

Since then, he's done nothing, and DeMarcus Ware has become a Hall of Fame lock.

CAN'T JUDGE AFTER THREE YEARS.

*ESPECIALLY* when Graham and Morgan just had arguably as good as, or better years than JPP in less snaps in 2012.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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CAN'T JUDGE AFTER THREE YEARS.
So why judge them based on 3 years of college production?
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Wootylicous View Post
How many of them learned football in 3 years and have production ?
I'm sure there were tons of players like that in NFL history.

The thing is, they never became top-50 players. Ansah won't either.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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So why judge them based on 3 years of college production?
Because there are only 4 years, max, of college whereas NFL careers for top players are often much longer? Duh?
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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Athleticism can be overrated at times, but some of the performances with the "top guys" is very concerning.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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In his 3 years of college he learned playing football in 2 of them. Come on now.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
And JPP and Clay Matthews had legit excuses too.

JPP was at community college before he played less than a full season at USF and then went into the draft.

Clay Matthews cracked the starting lineup as a 4-3 OLB who was not asked to rush the passer.

Ansah, Mingo, and Jordan played DL and 3-4 OLB positions and had plenty of opportunities for sacks and TFL, but failed to produce.
For the last time, Ansah played mostly INSIDE at BYU. Do you have any other mission in life besides trying to discredit Ziggy Ansah? Is he knocking off your sister or something?
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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For the last time, Ansah played mostly INSIDE at BYU. Do you have any other mission in life besides trying to discredit Ziggy Ansah? Is he knocking off your sister or something?
COLD HARD FACTS.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:32 AM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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After 3 years, Shawne Merriman was the best defensive player from the class of 2005, far better than DeMarcus Ware from that same class.

Since then, he's done nothing, and DeMarcus Ware has become a Hall of Fame lock.

CAN'T JUDGE AFTER THREE YEARS.

*ESPECIALLY* when Graham and Morgan just had arguably as good as, or better years than JPP in less snaps in 2012.
If you add up career jacks for Morgan and Graham they have just 3.5 more than JPP did in 2011 alone. Graham and Morgan had career years this year and JPP had a down year that was still better than what they both did this year.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:32 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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After 3 years, Shawne Merriman was the best defensive player from the class of 2005, far better than DeMarcus Ware from that same class.

Since then, he's done nothing, and DeMarcus Ware has become a Hall of Fame lock.

CAN'T JUDGE AFTER THREE YEARS.

*ESPECIALLY* when Graham and Morgan just had arguably as good as, or better years than JPP in less snaps in 2012.
Um, he was never far better than Ware and Merriman was doing steroids. I guess in your feeble mind that means Ansah is also doing steroids.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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He had a productive year at a big football school. You have to wonder how, if he's that slow and weak. Maybe some injury? But why participate in the Combine?
Sometimes guys produce in college because they're used intelligently and they're high motor guys despite no real strengths. This almost never translates well to the NFL. If you're going to rush the passer effectively in the NFL, you have to be really good at something. Not necessarily everything, but you need at least one good trick.

To me, Moore is another Everette Brown type. A lot of people had him in the top 10 until they looked a little closer, and he was drafted in an appropriate position as a result.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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With some less than stellar performances from some other highly regarded players, what do you guys see as Ansah's ceiling? I don't think the Jags at 2 is unreasonable.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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With some less than stellar performances from some other highly regarded players, what do you guys see as Ansah's ceiling? I don't think the Jags at 2 is unreasonable.
I think Ansah's ceiling is 9 to New York
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I would be shocked if Hunt didn't go in the first. He's worth a long look in the top 15.
I think when you combine Hunt's game tape with his age he isnt going in the first. Having said that, 4.6 with 38 reps, give me a freaking break. There is something there that if the right team puts him in the best position to succeed he could be really good.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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If you add up career jacks for Morgan and Graham they have just 3.5 more than JPP did in 2011 alone. Graham and Morgan had career years this year and JPP had a down year that was still better than what they both did this year.
Graham was #2 rated 4-3 DE per profootballfocus.com, and had close to the number of sacks and TFLs as JPP in far less snaps.

I could easily see Graham and/or Morgan outplaying Pierre-Paul in the next 10 years and then their careers would look better in total than JPP's.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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With some less than stellar performances from some other highly regarded players, what do you guys see as Ansah's ceiling? I don't think the Jags at 2 is unreasonable.
I don't either. People can talk all they want about how weak the draft its, but the bottom line is that every team in that top ten is not going to pass. They will actually pick someone. I know as an Oakland fan, I'd take Ansah in a heartbeat.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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For the last time, Ansah played mostly INSIDE at BYU. Do you have any other mission in life besides trying to discredit Ziggy Ansah? Is he knocking off your sister or something?
So why would we be drafting Ansah as a pass rusher?

Evaluate him as a DT prospect if you're so insistent on his "playing on the inside".
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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That was funny. "Please describe what you mean by blue-collar pass rusher." Tannebaum lists a bunch of guys. My translation? "White guy."
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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I think Ansah's ceiling is 9 to New York
I'd say that's his floor, not his ceiling.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
So why would we be drafting Ansah as a pass rusher?

Evaluate him as a DT prospect if you're so insistent on his "playing on the inside".
Because he can? Are you familiar with the difference between the expectations of a DE in a 4-3 vs a 3-4? Of course you don't.
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Old 02-25-2013, 10:48 AM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
With some less than stellar performances from some other highly regarded players, what do you guys see as Ansah's ceiling? I don't think the Jags at 2 is unreasonable.
I don't think any of the top of the draft picks should be a surprise this year. Ansah isn't making it out of the top ten, especially with Moore and Werner looking so so and Star's situation.
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