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Old 04-12-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
Big Bird
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Default Quarterback Guru's Sound-off on Draft Class

Article breaking down the top quarterback prospects in this Draft with notable Quarterback Guru's Steve Clarkson, Terry Shea, Steve Calhoun, Ken Mastrole, and Donovan Dooley.

Hope you all enjoy it! Originally, I had been talking with George Whitfield and Todd Krueger about being apart of it as well. Both agreed to do it, and then I was unable to get in touch with them after that unfortunately.

Oh well. Still plenty, plenty of information in there as well as a look ahead to some guys still in school at the end.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Terry Shea said Tyler Wilson had the same arm strength as Geno Smith??
Then Shea added that he saw Wilson make similar throws RG3 made.
It's clear he's trying to boost the draft profile of his guy.

It's hard for these QB coaches to be truly objective IMO because many of these prospects are clients.

Thought this was interesting;

"Donít want to make the assumption that because he came from Oklahoma that he canít play. Has great gifts, but when Iím looking at drafting in the first or second round, you get down to the 10-yard line when they are pulling him out to put in a new quarterback, that worries me." - Steve Clarkson said regarding Blake Bell being put into the game as the quarterback near the goal-line in place of Jones.

I was somewhat surprised that EJ Manuel was rated overall the top QB prospect in this class by these guys, if only slightly above Geno Smith. However as throwing coaches a big part of that IMO was Manuel being the best overall physical specimen in this draft.

EJ Manuel should have been MUCH better in college, I can't say that enough.
Depending how you answer the question, 'why wasn't he?', will determine how you grade him as a prospect.

BTW it was cool to read one of the QB coaches rip Nawrocki for his Geno SMith scouting report.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Terry Shea said Tyler Wilson had the same arm strength as Geno Smith??
Then Shea added that he saw Wilson make similar throws RG3 made.
It's clear he's trying to boost the draft profile of his guy.

It's hard for these QB coaches to be truly objective IMO because many of these prospects are clients.

Thought this was interesting;

"Donít want to make the assumption that because he came from Oklahoma that he canít play. Has great gifts, but when Iím looking at drafting in the first or second round, you get down to the 10-yard line when they are pulling him out to put in a new quarterback, that worries me." - Steve Clarkson said regarding Blake Bell being put into the game as the quarterback near the goal-line in place of Jones.

I was somewhat surprised that EJ Manuel was rated overall the top QB prospect in this class by these guys, if only slightly above Geno Smith. However as throwing coaches a big part of that IMO was Manuel being the best overall physical specimen in this draft.

EJ Manuel should have been MUCH better in college, I can't say that enough.
Depending how you answer the question, 'why wasn't he?', will determine how you grade him as a prospect.

BTW it was cool to read one of the QB coaches rip Nawrocki for his Geno SMith scouting report.

That was a package that Oklahoma put in for Bell much alike the role Tebow played his freshmen year. Totally invalid and dumb statement by whoever said that.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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That was a package that Oklahoma put in for Bell much alike the role Tebow played his freshmen year. Totally invalid and dumb statement by whoever said that.

Well, you take a look at all the QBs taken in the first round the last 30 years and tell me which ones were pulled inside the 15 yard line for a specialist QB to take snaps.

Urban Meyer did if for Tebow because that was the program's #1 recruit and Meyer inherited Leak, who wasn't his guy.

Elite college QBs don't get pulled like that in their junior and senior years for special packages to let another QB take snaps.

IMO Stoops wanted more production from the Sooners offense in the redzone and Landry Jones wasn't making it happen.
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Well, you take a look at all the QBs taken in the first round the last 30 years and tell me which ones were pulled inside the 15 yard line for a specialist QB to take snaps.

Urban Meyer did if for Tebow because that was the program's #1 recruit and Meyer inherited Leak, who wasn't his guy.

Elite college QBs don't get pulled like that in their junior and senior years for special packages to let another QB take snaps.

IMO Stoops wanted more production from the Sooners offense in the redzone and Landry Jones wasn't making it happen.
Blake Bell has been a QB in name only these past two seasons. So far in his career he's thrown 20 passes in comparison to 104 rushes. He's been dubbed the Belldozer for a reason. Using Blake Bell isn't very different from handing it off to a power back. While I'm no fan of Landry's, just because Stoops realizes Bell is an effective goal line option (24 TDs these past two seasons) doesn't mean Stoops doesn't trust Landry.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Blake Bell has been a QB in name only these past two seasons. So far in his career he's thrown 20 passes in comparison to 104 rushes. He's been dubbed the Belldozer for a reason. Using Blake Bell isn't very different from handing it off to a power back. While I'm no fan of Landry's, just because Stoops realizes Bell is an effective goal line option (24 TDs these past two seasons) doesn't mean Stoops doesn't trust Landry.
Sure it does. Bell is not a QB in name only, he's actually a QB. Bell could have easily lined up in the backfield to take the hand off, and that would make him a running back. He's not.

As for the person who mentioned Urban Meyer did the same thing with Tebow, allow me to rephrase the statement. Meyer did the same thing with Chris Leake that Stoops did with Landry Jones. You get the point.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Article breaking down the top quarterback prospects in this Draft with notable Quarterback Guru's Steve Clarkson, Terry Shea, Steve Calhoun, Ken Mastrole, and Donovan Dooley.

Hope you all enjoy it! Originally, I had been talking with George Whitfield and Todd Krueger about being apart of it as well. Both agreed to do it, and then I was unable to get in touch with them after that unfortunately.

Oh well. Still plenty, plenty of information in there as well as a look ahead to some guys still in school at the end.
This is one interesting article, thanks for posting. The WTF statement of the article by the Barkley homer was "Simplistic throws take a lot of a young man’s legs."

I can't lie, I am DYING to see what the Manuel hate mob has to say about this article. You know, since I am a merely a "Manuel homer" not to be taken seriously.

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Old 04-12-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Well, you take a look at all the QBs taken in the first round the last 30 years and tell me which ones were pulled inside the 15 yard line for a specialist QB to take snaps.

Urban Meyer did if for Tebow because that was the program's #1 recruit and Meyer inherited Leak, who wasn't his guy.

Elite college QBs don't get pulled like that in their junior and senior years for special packages to let another QB take snaps.

IMO Stoops wanted more production from the Sooners offense in the redzone and Landry Jones wasn't making it happen.
Jones had 4267 yards that was #2 in the nation and 30 Td's that is plenty of production. It would matter if Jones was taken out for someone to pass it but it was a run package and the regular run game is what bogged down in the red zone not Landry Jones.. The bell dozer worked.. plus jones still had 30 Td's despite Bell's 11 touchdown runs.. Jones was ranked 2nd in the Red zone efficiency.. Those guys who wrote the article do work for some of the guys they Ranked Higher, but even those guys had to admit that jones is top 5 not 9th or 10th... I think it is Geno Jones, Manuel Barkley Nassib.. Nassib averaged 60% completion thats not good enough..

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Old 04-12-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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What's the difference between Bell coming into run it in for a td from 3 yards out and any other QB handing it off to a RB at the three yard line to run it in? It's goal line offense.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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What's the difference between Bell coming into run it in for a td from 3 yards out and any other QB handing it off to a RB at the three yard line to run it in? It's goal line offense.
I agree its a stupid argument.. Ou lost several games because the regular run game bogged down and play calling in the red zone.. Jones passed for 356 yards at 68% against #2 ranked defense of Notre Dame but the run game didnt work and bell dozer didnt work in the red Zone and they ran it and ran it and gave Jones a third and long. settled for a field goal.. OU's field goal kicker lost them some games too..
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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If Bell was so valuable as a goal line 'back and Jones had such high redzone efficiency, why not have BOTH of them in the backfield at the same time??

Why did one of them have to come out for the other to be effective??

Obviously Jones doing a playaction handoff with Blake Bell would have been unstoppable.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I agree its a stupid argument.. Ou lost several games because the regular run game bogged down and play calling in the red zone.. Jones passed for 356 yards at 68% against #2 ranked defense of Notre Dame but the run game didnt work and bell dozer didnt work in the red Zone and they ran it and ran it and gave Jones a third and long. settled for a field goal.. OU's field goal kicker lost them some games too..
cant name the yards and not mention the fact he threw 51 passes that game. Also worth mentioning that like 20 of those yards were in the redzone, his stats were as much a product of the defense ND ran that day as it was of him doing his job. I guess he should be applauded for consistently passing to saunders and not putting the D on the backfoot at times. Jones 'patiently' taking what was there and not forcing anything was one of the reasons they lost. they were never going to be succesful in the redzone, that was apparent pretty quickly so you need to be a bit more aggresive outside of the 10 in that case.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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This is one interesting article, thanks for posting. The WTF statement of the article by the Barkley homer was "Simplistic throws take a lot of a young manís legs."

I can't lie, I am DYING to see what the Manuel hate mob has to say about this article. You know, since I am a merely a "Manuel homer" not to be taken seriously.
You may not like Landry Jones but I do Like manuel and he will be a first rounder along with Geno and Jones. Geno, Manuel 66% completion average, Jones and Barkley 63% completion average in college Jones number is stronger with 2183 throws to Barkley's 1600 throws and Manuel's number is weaker with 700 passes compared to Geno's 1400

wilson Glennon Nassib 60% completion in college ave.. Brey 58.5% Manuel is the best choice for read option, and Geno is all around good.. Jones is big and has Glennon type arm strength and very accurate on all passes,

Nassib is a barkley who is less accurate but with a little more arm strength


The top 5 in this article are the top 5 and they are all really Good put should be ranked
1.Geno
2Jones
3Manuel
4 Barkley
5 Nassib
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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"More athletic than people would ever imagine. Can dunk a basketball." - Donovan Dooley, talking about incoming Michigan freshman Shane Morris

That made me laugh out loud.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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cant name the yards and not mention the fact he threw 51 passes that game. Also worth mentioning that like 20 of those yards were in the redzone, his stats were as much a product of the defense ND ran that day as it was of him doing his job. I guess he should be applauded for consistently passing to saunders and not putting the D on the backfoot at times. Jones 'patiently' taking what was there and not forcing anything was one of the reasons they lost. they were never going to be succesful in the redzone, that was apparent pretty quickly so you need to be a bit more aggresive outside of the 10 in that case.
Good points. Jones hasnt been given enough credit for spreading around the ball to a ton of different people.. I agreed with you about being more aggressive outside out side the 10 I didnt like the play calls.. 30 TD's passes is pretty impressive considering the bell dozer package inside the red zone. The knocks on landry are just wrong and teams will see that.. He played well against good competition, 6 of his 8 losses the last three years he threw 290-472 yards.. 2 games over 400 yards, 2 over 300, and 2 at 290 and 299.. The two bad games he threw 250 and 272 His o line was not that great and it showed up in the redzone running game..
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
If Bell was so valuable as a goal line 'back and Jones had such high redzone efficiency, why not have BOTH of them in the backfield at the same time??

Why did one of them have to come out for the other to be effective??

Obviously Jones doing a playaction handoff with Blake Bell would have been unstoppable.
Because that's not how that special package is intended to work?

When Blake Bell is put in, Oklahoma isn't really trying to confuse anyone about what they're doing. They aren't trying to make defenses play both the pass and run. Bell does throw the occasional pass simply because the defense is often off-guard, but when Blake Bell lines up in a goalline formation, Oklahoma is generally trying nothing more than to out-muscle the defense to score. The defense knows they're simply going to try and force their way into the endzone, and Oklahoma is basically saying try and stop us. Again, he's nicknamed the Belldozer for a reason.

Its literally the same basic concept behind what Meyer did with Tebow, and most other collegiate designed quarterback runs; by utilizing the quarterback as the intended runner, you've now opened up an extra blocker. If you keep Landry in, that's not the case, its just a goalline run, which again, is not the intended package. Bell's package is intended to utilize that extra blocker to create an even heavier power formation than what the normal goalline package allows, the same exact thing Florida did with Tebow, Auburn with Cam Newton, etc. Blake Bell is put on the field to smash his way into the endzone, and is pretty good at that. Landry not being so isn't a very legitimate complaint.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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That was a package that Oklahoma put in for Bell much alike the role Tebow played his freshmen year. Totally invalid and dumb statement by whoever said that.
It didn't help that Jones' redzone numbers sucked. It was clear that Oklahoma was trying to mitigate that Landry Jones is only good between the 20s.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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It didn't help that Jones' redzone numbers sucked. It was clear that Oklahoma was trying to mitigate that Landry Jones is only good between the 20s.
You can try to spin it all you want but Jones wasn't getting it done in the redzone and Bell was an obvious upgrade for the redzone. That is a big disappointment for a prospect.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
This is one interesting article, thanks for posting. The WTF statement of the article by the Barkley homer was "Simplistic throws take a lot of a young manís legs."

I can't lie, I am DYING to see what the Manuel hate mob has to say about this article. You know, since I am a merely a "Manuel homer" not to be taken seriously.
Ah, that was my bad. Typo. Should be "take a lot out of a young man's legs."

Clarkson was talking about all the throws Weinke asked Barkley to make before having them attempt the deep stuff. To paraphrase, he was saying even simple throws like will tire you out if there is too many of them.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
Because that's not how that special package is intended to work?

When Blake Bell is put in, Oklahoma isn't really trying to confuse anyone about what they're doing. They aren't trying to make defenses play both the pass and run. Bell does throw the occasional pass simply because the defense is often off-guard, but when Blake Bell lines up in a goalline formation, Oklahoma is generally trying nothing more than to out-muscle the defense to score. The defense knows they're simply going to try and force their way into the endzone, and Oklahoma is basically saying try and stop us. Again, he's nicknamed the Belldozer for a reason.

Its literally the same basic concept behind what Meyer did with Tebow, and most other collegiate designed quarterback runs; by utilizing the quarterback as the intended runner, you've now opened up an extra blocker. If you keep Landry in, that's not the case, its just a goalline run, which again, is not the intended package. Bell's package is intended to utilize that extra blocker to create an even heavier power formation than what the normal goalline package allows, the same exact thing Florida did with Tebow, Auburn with Cam Newton, etc. Blake Bell is put on the field to smash his way into the endzone, and is pretty good at that. Landry not being so isn't a very legitimate complaint.
Did someone MAKE Stoops put in that package, or did he decide to do it? If he decided to put in the package, then the question is why? That question is totally valid.

That last team to put in such a package was Florida and they too had a starting QB with little pro potential.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Ah, that was my bad. Typo. Should be "take a lot out of a young man's legs."

Clarkson was talking about all the throws Weinke asked Barkley to make before having them attempt the deep stuff. To paraphrase, he was saying even simple throws like will tire you out if there is too many of them.
I get that, but really, was that really worth make and excuse for?? Wasn't there a QB that made 60+ throws in a recent work out with no problem?
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Old 04-13-2013, 05:33 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
I get that, but really, was that really worth make and excuse for?? Wasn't there a QB that made 60+ throws in a recent work out with no problem?
Yes, but Barkley is also coming off of shoulder rehab.

I talked with Terry Shea about Barkley regarding this as well. Shea worked with Bradford and scripted Bradford's Pro Day. Bradford went through a similar injury, was rehabbing the shoulder, and Shea said that one day, Bradford's arm just basically "popped" back. Shea mentioned how he was unsure if Barkley had hit that moment yet or not.
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