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Old 03-04-2014, 01:57 PM    (permalink
metafour
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Default Auburn Pro Day

The notables:


DE/OLB Dee Ford - 6-2 1/8, 244
4.59 first run
4.53 second run
29 reps
35.5" vert
10-4 broad
6.8 to 7.06 3-cone

OT Greg Robinson - 6-5, 327
Stood on Combine measurables

RB Tre Mason - 5-8 5/8, 205
7.10 three cone


CB Chris Davis - 5-9 6/8, 200
4.51 first run
40.5" vert
10-4 broad

FB Jay Prosch - 6-0 7/8, 254
4.75
27 reps
32" vert
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Excellant numbers for Ford there. Especially in terms of the get off in his pass rush.

I tend to pay closer attention to pro day numbers, especially the 40, i have zero confidence that the combine/NFLN can actually get accurate times for their runs.

We need a pro day thread.
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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I guess Ford struggled to stay above 250. The rest of his numbers are impressive though. I think he solidified himself as a late-first or early-second pick.
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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I still think Dee Ford is a first round pick. Yes he is undersized, but those are impressive numbers and he is coming off of a great season. Plus this is a questionable DE class after Clowney, I wouldn't take Ealy over him. The only players who are positional competition for him that I would draft earlier are Clowney, Mack, and Barr (I guess). I'd take Ford over Trent Murphy, Ealy, and pretty much the rest of them.
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:05 PM    (permalink
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I guess Ford struggled to stay above 250. The rest of his numbers are impressive though. I think he solidified himself as a late-first or early-second pick.
I bet he gets there. He may just need time to add muscle gradually while retaining his speed.

Or he may just play under 250, it's worked out OK for Robert Mathis.
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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I think Ford is clearly a 1st round talent, but I think he's going to be a 2nd round pick. I know they are completely different players that play different positions, but Ford reminds me of the Arthur Brown situation from last year. Brown was thought to be a 1st round talent. He showed up at the combine more than his playing weight, but couldn't work out. Then worked out at his pro day at a lighter weight (IIRC) and worked out well, but when it came down to it, nobody was comfortable taking him in the 1st round and he ended up going late-ish 2nd.

That's how I see the Dee Ford situation playing out. 3-4 teams aren't going to be sure he can cover. 4-3 teams aren't going to be sure he can hold up. (Brown was is he big enough for 3-4 ILB, is he only a 4-3 WLB). Hopefully he can contribute more than Brown did as a rookie, but that's just a hunch I have of how it will play out come May.
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Old 03-04-2014, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Many prospects drop weight prior to the combine or pro days to run a good 40.
I remember when Nick Fairley showed up @290# at the combine and people were shocked because he reportedly played the season over 300#.

What's that dude now?? 315-325#??lol

Dee Ford I'd guess is normally 250# and I think if you grade Ford as a 34 OLB, he's not that far behind Mack and Barr. In fact he's a better pass rusher than Barr IMO.

Love his game and if Ford lasts past the 32nd pick, he's officially a steal.

As for coverage, all a 34 outside 'backer needs to do is give an honest look in coverage, he shouldn't be expected to lockup a TE or RB. But he shouldn't give a QB too easy a read either.

First responsibility for a 34 OLB is rushing the passer. Dee Ford aces that test.

If you liked Lamarr Woodley back in the day, you should love Dee Ford.
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Old 03-04-2014, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Ford's weight problems somehow keeps making me think Aaron Maybin. But Maybin was playing like at 225/230.

If Ford is like Woodley, then he plans on getting fat?
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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Ford's weight problems somehow keeps making me think Aaron Maybin. But Maybin was playing like at 225/230.

If Ford is like Woodley, then he plans on getting fat?

That fatman used to be a badass.

Aaron Maybin was never built like this.
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Ford is a stud prospect but Jay Prosch is easily my favorite Auburn prospect. Is there a short list of teams that would even consider him?

NE
SEA
SF
MIA
NYJ
NYG
Bill O'Brien?
ATL
GB
BAL
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Old 03-04-2014, 05:58 PM    (permalink
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Ford is a stud prospect but Jay Prosch is easily my favorite Auburn prospect. Is there a short list of teams that would even consider him?

NE
SEA
SF
MIA
NYJ
NYG
Bill O'Brien?
ATL
GB
BAL
Browns. Don't have a true FB on the roster.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Browns. Don't have a true FB on the roster.
Good addition, Shanny did use a FB in Washington.
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Old 03-04-2014, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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That fatman used to be a badass.

Aaron Maybin was never built like this.
I agree, Woodley was great his first 3/4 years. Then he ate a bunch of Roethlis-burgers.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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I'm really surprised Dee Ford isn't considered a more prolific prospect than he is. Speed rushers tend to get overrated, but he really hasn't, and this class starts to get pretty weak after him. His Senior Bowl week was tremendous and he shows a natural burst off the line.

Those speed numbers are probably inflated a little bit, but 4.65 would be more than enough for him. Smaller sized pass rushers aren't much of an issue anymore.

He's really only had one above average season and I'm not a fan of players who take their entire college career to develop. That usually means they aren't as talented as they might appear, and only produced in their final season because they started learning technique. It's not always the case, but slow developers do give me a little pause.

I don't mind his size, but it is pretty average. I'd like for his arm length to be little better, especially when he's going to have to rely on hand placement early in his career. He's not a complete player and he does next to nothing against the run. He's too one dimensional for my liking, and I don't think that one dimension - pass rushing - is a terrific attribute. He could develop into a great pass rusher and an adequate run defender, but he runs the arc over and over and over again. He then mixes it up with a bull rush, or a combination of the speed with the power rush. He doesn't even attempt an inside move. Clowney is going to be 10 sack guy because he has the speed rush, the power rush and an inside counter move. Ford is too reliant on his speed rush and opposing offensive tackles get too comfortable.

You can tell, just from looking at his stats, that he does not defend the run. He had 14.5 TFL with just 18 total tackles last year. That screams of a guy who can't shed blockers or maintain gap discipline. He's terrible at holding the edge and he doesn't shed blockers in the run game (that's either a technique issue or a lack of length). He might be an adequate situational player, but he's every bit of a second or third round pick. Very few guys can be Dwight Freeney. He seems like he models his game after Freeney, but lacks the counter move to make him special (or a burst off the line that good).

He disappears too often. The Texas A&M game is what I think he will look like at the next level. Rarely did Manziel drop deep to give him an easy pass rush lane and Ford went up against a very good right tackle. The end result was utter domination. He had no counter move or any power move to the RTs inside post leg. You have to be able to attack both shoulders of a linemen. Ford can only attack the outside shoulder. This is the main reason why I think his best attribute will be negated early in his career at the next level. It might take Ford three or four years before he develops a power / inside move.

I'm assuming he will rise up draft boards after this Pro Day performance coupled with the Scouting Combine, but I think he will be little more than a solid contributor at the next level. A solid prospect, but nothing special. He's going to have develop superior technique at the next level if he's going to become special. And he's going to need to get more consistent with his power. He does have heavy hands at times.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:43 PM    (permalink
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Terrific analysis. I've yet to dive into his tape, but those types of pass rushers tend to be fool's gold more often than not.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:53 PM    (permalink
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He's pretty similar to Mingo in stature and athletic testing. Just a little shorter. Could be in play as high as Tennessee IMO. Philly might be his floor.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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I was impressed with Dee's play in the NC game. During the regular season Dee had two sacks against A&M so it's hard to say he was totally dominated.

He's not a finished product by any measure but I still believe Ford has more ceiling to his game.
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Old 03-04-2014, 09:59 PM    (permalink
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He's pretty similar to Mingo in stature and athletic testing. Just a little shorter. Could be in play as high as Tennessee IMO. Philly might be his floor.

Ford is much thicker and stronger than Mingo. Out of his pads Mingo looks like a WR.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, he does not compare to Mingo at all.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:15 PM    (permalink
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I would agree. He's nothing like Mingo. Not nearly as explosive either. Mingo had far more potential as a pass rusher. They're not comparable at all. I could understand people gushing over Mingo despite his tape being pretty awful. I thought Mingo was a second round prospect based on his potential. He was extremely undersized. I don't see that kind of potential with Ford. He's more of a 3rd round prospect because of that.

But I don't remember Ford having a tackle against Texas A&M, let alone two sacks.

EDIT: Oh, that's right. He ended the final drive with two sacks. He did nothing, and I mean nothing, up until that point though.

I just watched his highlights as a refresher and it reminded me of how bored I would get watching him. He just runs the same speed rush over and over again. And it's usually ineffective. And he would do it so often that he never recognized run plays; taking himself out of the play, playing undisciplined.

But that last drive shows his potential as a situational player. When he's one-on-one in a certain passing situation, he can be a significant threat. He closed that game out.

But watching that footage again made think his fluidity might be a question. I don't question his burst off the line, but I wonder about his balance as a pass rusher. He seems tight in his hips and a little incapable of redirecting; he just doesn't even try. Now that I think of it, I haven't seen any lateral quickness on the field.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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Excellant numbers for Ford there. Especially in terms of the get off in his pass rush.

I tend to pay closer attention to pro day numbers, especially the 40, i have zero confidence that the combine/NFLN can actually get accurate times for their runs.

We need a pro day thread.
I'm the exact opposite, at the Combine every prospect runs on the same track and it gives you a historical perspective of how they shape up against all the prospects who have run on that track. NFL scouts and GM's prorate every school's track based on past records but we don't know those stats, so times at a home track can be very misleading for draftniks.

I do agree that we need a Pro Day thread.
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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I'm really surprised Dee Ford isn't considered a more prolific prospect than he is. Speed rushers tend to get overrated, but he really hasn't, and this class starts to get pretty weak after him. His Senior Bowl week was tremendous and he shows a natural burst off the line.

Those speed numbers are probably inflated a little bit, but 4.65 would be more than enough for him. Smaller sized pass rushers aren't much of an issue anymore.

He's really only had one above average season and I'm not a fan of players who take their entire college career to develop. That usually means they aren't as talented as they might appear, and only produced in their final season because they started learning technique. It's not always the case, but slow developers do give me a little pause.

I don't mind his size, but it is pretty average. I'd like for his arm length to be little better, especially when he's going to have rely on hand placement early in his career. He's not a complete player and he does next to nothing against the run. He's too one dimensional for my liking, and I don't think that one dimension - pass rushing - is a terrific attribute. He could develop into a great pass rusher and an adequate run defender, but he runs the arc over and over and over again. He then mixes it up with a bull rush, or a combination of the speed with the power rush. He doesn't even attempt an inside move. Clowney is going to be 10 sack guy because he has the speed rush, the power rush and an inside counter move. Ford is too reliant on his speed rush and opposing offensive tackles get too comfortable.

You can tell, just from looking at that stats, that he does not defend the run. He had 14.5 TFL with just 18 total tackles last year. That screams of a guy who can't shed blockers or maintain gap discipline. He's terrible at holding the edge and he doesn't shed blockers in the run game (that's either a technique issue or lack of length). He might be an adequate situational player, but he's every bit of a second or third round pick. Very few guys can be Dwight Freeney. He seems like he models his game after Freeney, but lacks the counter move to make him special (or a burst off the line that good).

He disappears too often. The Texas A&M game is what I think he will look like at the next level. Rarely did Manziel drop deep to give him an easy pass rush and Ford went up against a very good right tackle. The end result was utter domination. He had no counter move or any power move to the RTs inside. You have to be able to attack both shoulders of a linemen. Ford can only attack the outside shoulder. This is the main reason why I think his best attribute will be negated early in his career at the next level. It might take Ford three or four years before he develops a power / inside move.

I'm assuming he will rise up draft boards after this Pro Day performance coupled with the Scouting Combine, but I think he will be little more than a solid contributor at the next level. A solid prospect, but nothing special. He's going to have develop superior technique at the next level. And he's going to need to get more consistent with his power. He has heavy hands at times.
I seer Ford as a 3-4 OLBer, only a Cover 2 team would play him at DE in a 4--3. As a rush LB in a 3-4, he doesn't have to take on OL in the trenches and I'd rate him miles ahead of Mingo as a prospect. I don't know why people are talking about him as a DE, there are only a few teams that would even consider him for that position.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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Ford is a stud prospect but Jay Prosch is easily my favorite Auburn prospect. Is there a short list of teams that would even consider him?

NE
SEA
SF
MIA
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NYG
Bill O'Brien?
ATL
GB
BAL
Colts need a fullback. You can probable throw the Viking and Panthers in there if Felton or Tolbert were to get too expensive.
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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But I don't remember Ford having a tackle against Texas A&M, let alone two sacks.

EDIT: Oh, that's right. He ended the final drive with two sacks. He did nothing, and I mean nothing, up until that point though.
Lol...


Josh Norris ‏@JoshNorris Jan 24
Again, if you haven't watched Dee Ford vs Texas A&M, I urge you to. He shows everything against one of my favorites in Ogbuehi.

Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout Jan 25
If anyone ever tells you that Dee Ford can't play the run, point them to his game vs. Texas A&M this season. Holy moly.

Matt Miller ‏@nfldraftscout Jan 25
Basically, Dee Ford vs. Texas A&M is a thing of beauty for the Auburn edge-rusher.

Jayson Braddock ‏@JaysonBraddock Mar 2
Must watch TV: Dee Ford vs the RT at Texas A&M. It's a work of art watching those 2 in the trenches. Ford's arms/hands are much improved
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Old 03-04-2014, 11:40 PM    (permalink
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He's really only had one above average season and I'm not a fan of players who take their entire college career to develop. That usually means they aren't as talented as they might appear, and only produced in their final season because they started learning technique. It's not always the case, but slow developers do give me a little pause.
At least do some research before pigeonholing a player. Dee Ford was a no-name recruit from a small HS who showed up at an Auburn summer camp and dominated so hard that he received an immediate offer. He was no more than 200 pounds when he arrived at Auburn but his frame and elite athleticism were immediately apparent. The great majority of why it "took him so long" was that he was a complete project physically. A 6-2 200 pound defensive end isn't going to be hitting the field and contributing in the SEC. After putting on the required mass he unfortunately ran into injury problems...the back issue from the Combine stemmed from a herniated disc which pretty much killed his entire season in 2011. If there are any concerns it should be the fact that he's been dinged up a few times, including the start of this season where he missed the first 2 games due to a knee injury from fall camp.
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