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Old 10-08-2013, 08:40 PM    (permalink
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JPP is still hurt. If he recovers fully from his back injury, he's a double digit sack guy easily. He just doesn't have that slippery, cat quick lateral movement like in the past to beat OTs.

JPP and Clowney would be the best bookend 43 DEs in recent memory.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:36 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
3 sub-par years or 1 above average year... I'll go with the larger sample size.

I guarantee that Pierre Paul will be seen as nothing more than a "one year wonder" 5+ years from now.
That would be a first, considering your love affair with Brandon Graham and Kolb after exclusively showing you just the smallest of sample sizes.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:04 AM    (permalink
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A DE isn't going to help Eli become a half decent QB. A DE isn't going to make your offense average more than 16 points per game. But it's cute that Giants fans think all their problems will go away next year and that they'll be great again. Your whole team sucks...

If the Giants get a top 3 pick they need to get a QB. Eli is already on his decline from inconsistent to just consistently terrible. 32 is around the age most non-elite QBs start to regress. Eli's time has come.

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Because our QB is not Matt Schaub?
Very true. Schaub is currently better than Eli Manning.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:22 AM    (permalink
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This should be good.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:10 AM    (permalink
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That's cute. I refrain from having stupid discussions so I'll just squeeze his cheeks and remind him to drink his milk before he goes to bed.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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You totally stole my #AStormIsComing picture bro.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:59 AM    (permalink
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SP yous funny bro. Cuz Aaron Rodgers amirite?
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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Very true. Schaub is currently better than Eli Manning.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/...deveon-clowney

As an NFL Scout I would be concerned he couldn't play through that injury.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Seriously though, the Giants' problems are bigger than a defensive end and I don't know why people are just expecting Eli to come back next year significantly improved. He's 32 and he's regressing. If they have a top 5 pick and there's a QB they like, they should take him. You never know when you'll get that chance again.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:46 AM    (permalink
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Eh. We traded a boatload of picks for Eli. That worked out. We'll do it again when the time is right. And when Eli retires, we'll be firmly in place to get another qb whenever that time comes anyway.

Any qb we draft will have to sit at least 5 years behind Eli so it's a waste of a move. I rather just draft a player who helps us try to get one more SB run out of the Eli Manning era over the next 5 years.

Yes, we have more needs than just DE. But a DE of Clowney's impact can mask a lot of issues in the back 7. One mistake we all make when evaluating teams is if a team doesn't address every need we overexaggerate those holes.

Every team has holes. No team in the league is complete. Look at Seattle, they probably have the most talented roster in the league and they even have holes. There's no such thing as a complete team anymore.

The key is to have talent where it matters. The Giants have some pieces in important places. We have the qb, we have WRs, we have OTs. We need interior OL on offense. RB and TE can be bandaid players for the time being.

On defense, we have good enough DTs. Healthy JPP and Moore is a good start at DE. Prince is a piece to build around in the secondary. You get Clowney coupled with JPP and Moore, and that back 7 looks a hell of a lot better by default.

All we have to do is get our pass rush back up to our old standards, protect Eli enough that he can step into his throws, and we'll have enough talent to be competitive again.

You can't have everything. We get our DL back in order and get our OL up to an acceptable standard and we'll be right back in the thick of things.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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Not to change the subject back to the actual topic but i can see a scenario here very soon where Clowney shuts it down to get ready for the NFL. He has the rib issue but more importantly it seems he'll have surgery after the season for bone spurs in his foot.

Normally i would not be in favor of someone quitting on his team. Clowney is probably that rare exception that he has already established himself, has zero to gain personally by staying at USC and needs to be ready to be part of the draft process or at the least be ready to perform before the draft. I'm saying expect a shutdown here very soon.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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Seriously SP, I gave the greatest gift possible, your continuing existence, and you return the favor with such ignorance? If you actually read any posts Giants fans are making you'd see that that strawman you're knocking down with such gusto is just that, a strawman.

We know Clowney doesn't fix our interior OL, we know Clowney doesn't make Jacquain not our only good LB, we know Clowney won't fix JPP's back, or make Nicks bust his ass, or turn Webster/Thomas/Ross into reliably healthy players, and it won't get the team to start caring, although sucking enough to pick him and get new coaches while we purge a lot of has-beens from the roster might. What Clowney would do is fix the biggest problem with our defense, our non-existent pass rush.

The biggest problem with our offense can be solved with 1 FA and 1 2nd round pick. If we get those 3 guys and clean some house with the coaching staff this will be a completely different team, but god knows talented teams never suck and never turn it around, that's why the chiefs are still as bad as they were last year. And with an OL that doesn't get its **** pushed in every snap and a defense that can get pressure on the QB this team would be right back to SB contenders so we can squeeze a third ring out of eli before he retires in 4-6 years.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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If a player is this worried about protecting his money because of bone spurs and a minor rib injury, he's going to be the same guy in the NFL; a player who will shut it down when he feels he's not 100% healthy.

I would hate Clowney's attitude as a Gamecocks fan, and I'd be worried about what motivates him to play football in the first place as an NFL fan.

Guys playing just for a paycheck are rarely great players in the pros.

IMO he's beginning to lose focus. Money and draft status follow performance on the football field, not measurables and HS game tape.

But hey if he's hurt, he's hurt.
However is Clowney sits out the rest of the season with bone spurs and bruised ribs, I would hate to be a fan of the team in a position to draft him.

If Clowney's last name was Haynesworth at Tennessee, everyone would acknowledge there are red flags with this guy.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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That's the beauty of the rookie wage scale. You can gamble more on players like this.

You just don't pass on a DE with HOF potential just bc he loafed his junior year that he never wanted to play to begin with.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Seriously SP, I gave the greatest gift possible, your continuing existence, and you return the favor with such ignorance? If you actually read any posts Giants fans are making you'd see that that strawman you're knocking down with such gusto is just that, a strawman.

We know Clowney doesn't fix our interior OL, we know Clowney doesn't make Jacquain not our only good LB, we know Clowney won't fix JPP's back, or make Nicks bust his ass, or turn Webster/Thomas/Ross into reliably healthy players, and it won't get the team to start caring, although sucking enough to pick him and get new coaches while we purge a lot of has-beens from the roster might. What Clowney would do is fix the biggest problem with our defense, our non-existent pass rush.

The biggest problem with our offense can be solved with 1 FA and 1 2nd round pick. If we get those 3 guys and clean some house with the coaching staff this will be a completely different team, but god knows talented teams never suck and never turn it around, that's why the chiefs are still as bad as they were last year. And with an OL that doesn't get its **** pushed in every snap and a defense that can get pressure on the QB this team would be right back to SB contenders so we can squeeze a third ring out of eli before he retires in 4-6 years.
The Chiefs went from Matt Cassell (the worst starting QB in the NFL, to Alex Smith (an average QB in the NFL). The Giants are still going to have Eli Manning, an Eli Manning that is already declining. QB's don't continue their level of play into their mid 30s. The execeptions are all elite QBs, which Eli Manning isn't. I know Giants fans would love to blame anyone other than Eli, but let's be realistic. He hasn't been good, irrelevant of the help around him. Keep telling yourself that the Giants are 0-5 because the players have decided that they don't want to win games. Anything to avoid any sort of blame being put on Eli.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Seriously though, the Giants' problems are bigger than a defensive end and I don't know why people are just expecting Eli to come back next year significantly improved. He's 32 and he's regressing. If they have a top 5 pick and there's a QB they like, they should take him. You never know when you'll get that chance again.
Depends on the offense and what we do. I am hoping for 2 new systems, one on OFF and on on DEF. If that can happen I have faith. We need to address the OL and RB situation. Let's see if Nicks if re-signed or not. We have a lot more important issues that are plaguing us than the QB spot. That's the least of our worries.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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If a player is this worried about protecting his money because of bone spurs and a minor rib injury, he's going to be the same guy in the NFL; a player who will shut it down when he feels he's not 100% healthy.

I would hate Clowney's attitude as a Gamecocks fan, and I'd be worried about what motivates him to play football in the first place as an NFL fan.

Guys playing just for a paycheck are rarely great players in the pros.

IMO he's beginning to lose focus. Money and draft status follow performance on the football field, not measurables and HS game tape.

But hey if he's hurt, he's hurt.
However is Clowney sits out the rest of the season with bone spurs and bruised ribs, I would hate to be a fan of the team in a position to draft him.

If Clowney's last name was Haynesworth at Tennessee, everyone would acknowledge there are red flags with this guy.
Really?, because after awhile they're all just playing for a paycheck.

Clowney is probably the rarest of exceptions who could have gone to the NFL out of highschool. I don't know if he's any kind of a student or not but my guess is he's putting in his time just waiting to get paid. And if you wouldn't want him as a GM then the next team will be glad to get him.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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Depends on the offense and what we do. I am hoping for 2 new systems, one on OFF and on on DEF. If that can happen I have faith. We need to address the OL and RB situation. Let's see if Nicks if re-signed or not. We have a lot more important issues that are plaguing us than the QB spot. That's the least of our worries.
Don't get me wrong, he's still a good NFL quarterback - although I question for how much longer, Giants fans are off saying they'll have another 4+ years from Eli. If the Giants put a great team around him they would be relatively competitive. But, for example, if the Giants have a chance to draft Bridgewater and they think he's a franchise QB prospect, I don't think you bargain your future and pick someone because they can help Eli now. What if the Packers had gone with help for Favre instead of picking Rodgers? People would have questioned that pick at the time, but I don't think a single Packers fan would be upset about that now.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
cgf (Rosebud)
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The packers spent a pick in the 20s on Rodgers, not a top 5 pick. You don't sit a top 5 pick for 3+ years. That's stupid. Especially when you've got a franchise QB who still throws the deep ball better than any QB in the NFl, still runs the hurry up as well as any QB in the NFL and is as tough as any QB in the NFL. Our team has fallen apart, but that's far more about the psychology of the old guard and our moronic coaching that still is built around 5-7 step drops and 3-4 man rushes despite our interior OL being barely able to hold up long enough to throw slants all day, and our pass rush being MIA since JPP messed up his back.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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I get it. Eli is the man. None of this is his fault. He's still elite! He's playing out of his skin this season. The only reason you're averaging 16 points per game is because you have a bad guard. I get it.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Really?, because after awhile they're all just playing for a paycheck.
I don't think money alone is enough of a motivator to make an NFL player perform at a high level on Sundays.

Money is a big part of it, but it's not just about the paycheck.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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Before the Justin Pugh pick the Giants hadn't picked an offensive lineman in the first round in 13 years (citing blogger on Colin Cowherd). Now they did draft William Beatty in the second round. They haven't had a strong LB corps in a while and their secondary is slipping. Eli isn't even close to being done. He's a smart QB and those can last longer.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:55 PM    (permalink
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Eh. We traded a boatload of picks for Eli. That worked out. We'll do it again when the time is right. And when Eli retires, we'll be firmly in place to get another qb whenever that time comes anyway.

Any qb we draft will have to sit at least 5 years behind Eli so it's a waste of a move. I rather just draft a player who helps us try to get one more SB run out of the Eli Manning era over the next 5 years.

Yes, we have more needs than just DE. But a DE of Clowney's impact can mask a lot of issues in the back 7. One mistake we all make when evaluating teams is if a team doesn't address every need we overexaggerate those holes.

Every team has holes. No team in the league is complete. Look at Seattle, they probably have the most talented roster in the league and they even have holes. There's no such thing as a complete team anymore.

The key is to have talent where it matters. The Giants have some pieces in important places. We have the qb, we have WRs, we have OTs. We need interior OL on offense. RB and TE can be bandaid players for the time being.

On defense, we have good enough DTs. Healthy JPP and Moore is a good start at DE. Prince is a piece to build around in the secondary. You get Clowney coupled with JPP and Moore, and that back 7 looks a hell of a lot better by default.

All we have to do is get our pass rush back up to our old standards, protect Eli enough that he can step into his throws, and we'll have enough talent to be competitive again.

You can't have everything. We get our DL back in order and get our OL up to an acceptable standard and we'll be right back in the thick of things.
You're just assuming that Jason Pierre Paul and Damontre Moore are quality DEs going forward. I wouldn't make that assumption after watching this year. Moore could easily be a bust and Pierre Paul is more likely to be a one year wonder than a perennial Pro Bowler.

And outside of that, the only "talent" on that defense is Prince Amukamara who is a "good" corner but nothing exceptional. That's *it*.

And on offense, obviously, the entire OL has to be rebuilt. Can you count on Beatty? I'll give Pugh a pass because he's a rookie, but he's obviously an unknown quantity. Everyone else on that OL has to be replaced.

If you have severe question marks and lack of talent on both OL and DL, that could set a team up for multiple years of struggles.
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