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Old 05-11-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by holt_bruce81 View Post
I never understood this Sam Bradford hate. You watch him play and you see the fuckload of talent he has.

Bradford:
82.6 RATING, 59.5 cmp%, 6.72 ypc, 3,702 yards, 21 TDs, 13 INTs, 6 fumbles, 51.6 QBR, 35 sacks taken, 25 drops

VS Playoff teams:
180/284 63.3 cmp%, 236 ypg, 6.7 ypc, 8 TDs/7 INTs

Flacco:
87.7 RATING, 59.7 cmp%, 7.19 ypc, 3,817 yards, 22 TDs, 10 INTs, 9 fumbles, 46.8 QBR, 35 sacks taken, 19 drops

vs playoff teams:
110/180 61.1 cmp%, 252.8 ypg, 7.2 ypc, 11 TDs/5 INTs

One Quarterback is considered a bust. The other one is considered to be a top 5 Quarterback in the NFL, and just got a monster deal....Please get the **** out of here with the "Bradford sucks" garbage. 3 OCs in 3 years, a **** team and Brandon Gibson and Danny Amendola as your top 2 targets.

Anyways to Lee....He's a top 15 talent, but I'm not taking him top 5.
I think Bradford has been unfairly been painted as a QB that didn't live up to the hype. Fact is he has had a god awful supporting cast that just now is starting to come around.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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its said a lot but its not a misconception, bradford looked good as a rookie until defenses made him throw it down field and he just looked terrible
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
Babylon
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
its said a lot but its not a misconception, bradford looked good as a rookie until defenses made him throw it down field and he just looked terrible
Who was he throwing to though and when i saw them play his offensive line was lousy. He probably shouldn't be mentioned with QBs who can put a team solely on their backs and win games but i think he can be a playoff QB. 2-1-1 this year against Seattle and San Francisco says something.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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BMW....


:(
Still my favorite Trojan. He had the talent, just never had the work ethic outside of one season.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Who was he throwing to though and when i saw them play his offensive line was lousy. He probably shouldn't be mentioned with QBs who can put a team solely on their backs and win games but i think he can be a playoff QB. 2-1-1 this year against Seattle and San Francisco says something.
For Bradford I think the greatest reason for his struggles can be attributed to a lack of stability within the coaching staff, and with Fisher in place it appears he'll finally get that along with new weapons and an improved offensive line. I like Sam and think he can be a really solid quarterback in the league, but now all the excuses have been addressed so he's gotta go out and perform.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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For Bradford I think the greatest reason for his struggles can be attributed to a lack of stability within the coaching staff, and with Fisher in place it appears he'll finally get that along with new weapons and an improved offensive line. I like Sam and think he can be a really solid quarterback in the league, but now all the excuses have been addressed so he's gotta go out and perform.
again, sounds a lot like alex smith
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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again, sounds a lot like alex smith
Who basically proved he was good enough to get a team to the Superbowl. I'd add Matt Ryan is that type of QB also except he had a great receiving corps.

Correct though that it's time to take the next step.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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again, sounds a lot like alex smith
It's very similar to the challenges Alex Smith faced early on in the league. Bradford is a better pure passer though and I expect a big year from him in comparison to any other season he's had.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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He's been verified on Twitter. What else do you need to know?
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Go ahead, I'd like to see your list of slow WR's who didn't play in a spread shotgun/run and shoot/Air raid offense with comparable stats to Marqise.
Out of curiosity, I'd actually be very interested in seeing this list, as well.
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Old 05-12-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Go ahead, I'd like to see your list of slow WR's who didn't play in a spread shotgun/run and shoot/Air raid offense with comparable stats to Marqise.
It's a valid point that most of the guys putting up big numbers are playing in spread offenses, but I don't think if he runs near 4.5 or higher he's "slow" - I just mean he doesn't necessarily need to be blazing fast on a track to put up huge stats. It seemed like the big stats were being used in a "1700+ yards = sub-4.4" sort of arguments (which would be silly), but you did mention in your original post that you were talking about production in an offense which frequently features two-TE sets, which is sort of out of the ordinary these days. I'm kind of researching the question now, though, and finding it's actually kind of difficult to find any receiving leaders at all who don't play on a spread team. I don't know if that's plus points for Lee, or just a statement about how profoundly the spread has taken over college football. I'll give Lee a half-point.

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BMW....


:(
Yep. Slow as molasses, and didn't really have the work ethic to continue honing the other aspects of his game which would've put him over the top in the NFL. Think he showed in Seattle (2010) that his talent was legit, it's just kind of a shame he never put it all together. If he'd been more focused he could've really been a star. Just so huge and natural as a receiver. Might've even worked nicely in a Jimmy Graham sort of role in an alternate universe.

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Out of curiosity, I'd actually be very interested in seeing this list, as well.
I'm trying to remember what teams run more pro-style offenses (for the sake of this search, I'm trying to find players at schools whose QBs take a lot of snaps from center, who use a full back or multiple TE sets on a regular basis, or were otherwise counted on to beat defensive backs on a regular basis. Just correct me if I get any wrong). Here's what I came up with (working backwards in time, so sticking to guys where times are more readily available), basically just excluding anyone who either runs sub 4.45 or plays in a spread:

2011: Keenan Allen (4.71, but some injury questions) had 98 receptions for 1343 yards and 6 TDs at Cal.
Marvin McNutt (4.48 - about where I initially estimated Lee, but am starting to think he's faster) had 82 for 1325 and 12 TDs at Iowa.

2010: Alshon Jeffrey (4.48 pro day) had 88 catches for 1517 yards and 9 TDs at South Carolina.

2008: Kenny Britt (4.50 combine) had 87 catches for 1371 yards and 7 TDs at Rutgers (and had a similar stat line the year before).

2007: Jordy Nelson (4.51 combine) had 122 catches for 1606 yards and 11 TDs for Josh Freeman-led KSU.

2005: Mike Hass (4.59 combine) had 90 catches for 1532 yards and 6 TDs at Oregon State. (and 1379 the year before)

2003: Larry Fitzgerald (4.48 pro day) had 92 catches for 1672 yards and 22 TDs at Pitt.
Geoff McArthur (4.52 estimate per nfldraftscout) had 85 catches for 1504 yards and 10 TDs at Cal.

2002: J.R. Tolver (4.67 combine) had 128 catches for 1785 yards and 13 TDs at San Diego State.
Kassim Osgood (4.68 combine) had 108 catches for 1552 yards and 8 TDs, also for San Diego State. That was a crazy year for them, as both of those guys seemed to come out of nowhere.
Reggie Williams (4.56 pro day) had 94 catches for 1454 yards and 11 TDs at Washington.

2001: Josh Reed (4.54 estimate per nfldraftscout) had 94 catches for 1740 yards and 7 TDs for LSU.

Edit, for reference - 2012: Marqise Lee (nfldraftscout estimates him a 4.51) had 118 catches for 1741 yards and 14 TDs for USC.

Now, just on paper there's not a lot there to separate him from the last guy I listed, Josh Reed, who was a second round pick and a good pro, but certainly not a superstar. A question I have for anyone re-reading this - is there a confirmed height anywhere for Lee? On nfldraftscout it's got him at 5116, which seems awfully specific for a guy who looks like he's a good inch taller than the officially-6' Robert Woods.

Last edited by Caulibflower : 05-13-2013 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:48 PM    (permalink
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So basically just Larry Fitzgerald. The other guys didn't put up the stats Lee did. Also, they didn't have a second round pick lining up across from them.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:13 PM    (permalink
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So basically just Larry Fitzgerald. The other guys didn't put up the stats Lee did. Also, they didn't have a second round pick lining up across from them.
Basically what i was about to say. There's something truly special about the person Marqise is. I would never want to doubt his ability at any level with the drive this guy carries.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec...e-lee-20121225

As a season ticket holder and someone who has watched Lee rise to where he is now. I can't begin to make an argument to anyone, because I am biased. Trojan family has watched this kid come in and carry the team and will do the same when he hits the big leagues

* This post was mostly for the article. I suggest you all take a read.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:33 PM    (permalink
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I think he could be special but his height is a concern. The offense doesn't mean much to me, USC throws the ball a ton so he had plenty of opportunities. He will need to run in the 4.4's if he is to be special, because he doesn't have elite size to carry him over CB's in jump balls.
I suspect, he'll run close to a 4.40 but we'll have to wait till the post season to find out just how fast/slow he is.
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Old 05-12-2013, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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again, sounds a lot like alex smith
I don't like the comparison, Bradford has a far better arm than Smith and Ryan and hasn't been around anywhere near as many years as Smith. St. Louis basically had zero weapons surrounding Bradford and he had poor HC's leading the team.
This should be his breakout year and if it isn't then the comparisons to Alex might be valid, but until then, Bradford has a shot to reach the true franchise QB status which Smith will never quite approach.
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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It's a valid point that most of the guys putting up big numbers are playing in spread offenses, but I don't think if he runs near 4.5 or higher he's "slow" - I just mean he doesn't necessarily need to be blazing fast on a track to put up huge stats. It seemed like the big stats were being used in a "1700+ yards = sub-4.4" sort of arguments (which would be silly), but you did mention in your original post that you were talking about production in an offense which frequently features two-TE sets, which is sort of out of the ordinary these days. I'm kind of researching the question now, though, and finding it's actually kind of difficult to find any receiving leaders at all who don't play on a spread team. I don't know if that's plus points for Lee, or just a statement about how profoundly the spread has taken over college football. I'll give Lee a half-point.



Yep. Slow as molasses, and didn't really have the work ethic to continue honing the other aspects of his game which would've put him over the top in the NFL. Think he showed in Seattle (2010) that his talent was legit, it's just kind of a shame he never put it all together. If he'd been more focused he could've really been a star. Just so huge and natural as a receiver. Might've even worked nicely in a Jimmy Graham sort of role in an alternate universe.



I'm trying to remember what teams run more pro-style offenses (for the sake of this search, I'm trying to find players at schools whose QBs take a lot of snaps from center, who use a full back or multiple TE sets on a regular basis, or were otherwise counted on to beat defensive backs on a regular basis. Just correct me if I get any wrong). Here's what I came up with (working backwards in time, so sticking to guys where times are more readily available), basically just excluding anyone who either runs sub 4.45 or plays in a spread:

2011: Keenan Allen (4.71, but some injury questions) had 98 receptions for 1343 yards and 6 TDs at Cal.
Marvin McNutt (4.48 - about where I initially estimated Lee, but am starting to think he's faster) had 82 for 1325 and 12 TDs at Iowa.

2010: Alshon Jeffrey (4.48 pro day) had 88 catches for 1517 yards and 9 TDs at South Carolina.

2008: Kenny Britt (4.50 combine) had 87 catches for 1371 yards and 7 TDs at Rutgers (and had a similar stat line the year before).

2007: Jordy Nelson (4.51 combine) had 122 catches for 1606 yards and 11 TDs for Josh Freeman-led KSU.

2005: Mike Hass (4.59 combine) had 90 catches for 1532 yards and 6 TDs at Oregon State. (and 1379 the year before)

2003: Larry Fitzgerald (4.48 pro day) had 92 catches for 1672 yards and 22 TDs at Pitt.
Geoff McArthur (4.52 estimate per nfldraftscout) had 85 catches for 1504 yards and 10 TDs.

2002: J.R. Tolver (4.67 combine) had 128 catches for 1785 yards and 13 TDs at San Diego State.
Kassim Osgood (4.68 combine) had 108 catches for 1552 yards and 8 TDs, also for San Diego State. That was a crazy year for them, as both of those guys seemed to come out of nowhere.
Reggie Williams (4.56 pro day) had 94 catches for 1454 yards and 11 TDs at Washington.

2001: Josh Reed (4.54 estimate per nfldraftscout) had 94 catches for 1740 yards and 7 TDs for LSU.


Interestingly enough Marqise would be one of the smallest on this list, and I think that's indication of his talent. Like I've said, his leaping ability and body control more than make up for 2 inches of height.

Some might write it off as "coach speak", but there's a reason David Shaw stated that Marqise was the best WR he's scouted since..... Randy Moss. Even if you're trying to fluff up your opponent a bit, that's a lofty ass ringing endorsement right there.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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Interestingly enough Marqise would be one of the smallest on this list, and I think that's indication of his talent. Like I've said, his leaping ability and body control more than make up for 2 inches of height.

Some might write it off as "coach speak", but there's a reason David Shaw stated that Marqise was the best WR he's scouted since..... Randy Moss. Even if you're trying to fluff up your opponent a bit, that's a lofty ass ringing endorsement right there.
I was first watching him trying to take a little shine off the hype, trying to be pretty critical, but the guy's just a baller. I was looking for things I could count as weaknesses the first time through, but when it comes down to it he's a top-tier wideout prospect in my book. You do notice that all these guys are really big-bodied guys, too, and that, frankly, Lee put up better stats that just about all of them. (I see you over there, Larry.) Also like I mentioned earlier, he does look like he's every bit of 6'1", and while he's definitely lean, I'm almost expecting a Cordarrelle Patterson-type weigh-in. Really lean, v-torso guy who is built really dense as opposed to skinny. I like the way he runs with it, too.

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Old 05-13-2013, 08:05 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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I don't like the comparison, Bradford has a far better arm than Smith and Ryan and hasn't been around anywhere near as many years as Smith. St. Louis basically had zero weapons surrounding Bradford and he had poor HC's leading the team.
This should be his breakout year and if it isn't then the comparisons to Alex might be valid, but until then, Bradford has a shot to reach the true franchise QB status which Smith will never quite approach.
I do agree that Bradford hasn't had the weapons surrounding him as most qbs however Steven Jackson was a nice player to have running the football.

In hindsight I don't think Bradford is a top q prospect. To me he wasn't worthy of a top 5 grade in 2010. I thought he was an average qb prospect. I thought the Oklahoma system had a large part of his success and not as good as advertised. I think his ceiling is average qb who won't wow you but can win games with a strong team in place. But no way has he lived up to #1 pick status. Not even flashed that.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:01 AM    (permalink
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Why are we talking about Sam Bradford in a Marqise Lee thread?

Bring that mediocrity to another thread. :)
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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man , i'm not sure how great of a football player he'll become but if it's
anywhere close to him as a person , , , , the sky is the absolute limit

i've coached against marqise since he was around 7-8 years old
he and my son were in the same high school graduating class
and they've competed against each other in park n rec and
aau since they were kids beginning at the local ymca

i didn't even know he played football , or ran track for that matter
that's how good of a basketball player he was . . . i've always
looked at him as a man amongst boys , and since learning
of his upbringing as a youth he's even more impressive
(both parents were deaf - link below)

marqise is the 2nd best athlete i've ever seen to come out of inglewood
the first would be my HS backcourt mate and 3-time laker champion
byron scott , , , , , , whom i believe would have made pro in either
football (QB) baseball (pitcher) boxing ,,,,,, and hoops of course

i rank him ahead of another morningside alum - stais boseman - who
was the first california athlete ever to be named state mvp in
both football and basketball , , , , , doing so as a junior

marqise is without question one of the greatest young men i've ever
encountered and trust that i've come across plenty . . . . . he still
to this day refers to me as "Sir" whenever we cross paths

i could talk about this kid all day but i'll simply close by saying that he's
just an absolute genuine young man whom i wish nothing but the best

.

(it's saying i don't have enough posts to drop links but you
can google search by the story title if you're interested)

"The rise of Marqise Lee"

Where did your son play? My son played at Mira Costa(class of 2010) and used to workout with Lee, Robert Woods, George Farmer on weekends over at Narbonne. Woods was the technician (perfect routes, great hands), Farmer was the blazer, but Lee was just an overall freak. Great body control, stop and start speed, etc. he would make plays he simply should have not been able to. All 3 would abuse my son but I always told him they were a great measuring stick to where he wants to get to.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Where did your son play? My son played at Mira Costa(class of 2010) and used to workout with Lee, Robert Woods, George Farmer on weekends over at Narbonne. Woods was the technician (perfect routes, great hands), Farmer was the blazer, but Lee was just an overall freak. Great body control, stop and start speed, etc. he would make plays he simply should have not been able to. All 3 would abuse my son but I always told him they were a great measuring stick to where he wants to get to.
Good stories to tell down the road.
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Old 05-13-2013, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Why are we talking about Sam Bradford in a Marqise Lee thread?

Bring that mediocrity to another thread. :)
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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trying to get to 10 posts

this one has actual photo with caption

http://wavenewspapers.com/sports/ima...a12a3eae2.html

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Old 05-15-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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damn , wasn't aware he had over 100 rec. 1700 yards and 14tds
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Where did your son play? My son played at Mira Costa(class of 2010) and used to workout with Lee, Robert Woods, George Farmer on weekends over at Narbonne. Woods was the technician (perfect routes, great hands), Farmer was the blazer, but Lee was just an overall freak. Great body control, stop and start speed, etc. he would make plays he simply should have not been able to. All 3 would abuse my son but I always told him they were a great measuring stick to where he wants to get to.
man ,, had my best game ever at mira costa

my son played at fairfax - class of 2012

below is the link to game vs serra

he's #12 (white) pictured defending farmer

article notes my son had 14 points (game high)

marqise had an unforgettably monstrous dunk that game

http://wavenewspapers.com/sports/art...c943c2998.html

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