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Old 02-21-2014, 11:04 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
Yeah he needs to find a balance between making plays with his legs and trying to be a RB. He doesn't need to seek out contact to make big plays. Similar to RG3 he should develop as a pocket passer knowing he can break it outside if needs be. But for both guys I would give one piece of advice: Get down or get out of bounds!!!
Small sample of film but he does seem to understand sliding far better than RG111 did.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Whoa.

Teddy looks at least as big as RG3 did at the combine in 2012, when he weighed 224# official.

If that added weight equates to a tad bit more velocity and arm strength, I won't be surprised in the Rams sit on that 2nd pick and take Bridgewater.

#theRealDeal
First, Bridgewater may get taken #1 overall, second, Fisher has been pretty loyal to Bradford enough to put his career on the line for him, so I doubt he will change his spots in this draft.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:49 PM    (permalink
LizardKing51
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Default Bridgewater

I haven't seen the following information posted on Bridgewater in this thread regarding his weight. I live in Louisville and follow the Louisville football team closely. He had to play lighter last season (his true junior year) compared to his true sophomore year. Last summer he had corrective surgery on his jaw for a significant under bite. While most players were gaining weight before the season to compensate for slowly losing a little weight as the season goes on, Teddy had his mouth wired shut and was on a liquid diet and then after that a restricted diet. He lost quite a bit of weight last summer.

I don't think he will have any problem getting to 225 by the end of the offseason and keep his weight around 220 for the NFL playoffs next year;) He just turned 21 three months ago and I expect he will carry at least a little more weight as he ages as most people do.

I know he will do everything the NFL strength coaches tell him to and outwork anyone else on the team. He lives and breaths football and wont participate in distractions. Caring for his mother with her cancer treatments while he was in high school forced him to grow up much faster than most other kids. He also took extra classes and summer school to graduate in only 2 1/2 years.
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen the following information posted on Bridgewater in this thread regarding his weight. I live in Louisville and follow the Louisville football team closely. He had to play lighter last season (his true junior year) compared to his true sophomore year. Last summer he had corrective surgery on his jaw for a significant under bite. While most players were gaining weight before the season to compensate for slowly losing a little weight as the season goes on, Teddy had his mouth wired shut and was on a liquid diet and then after that a restricted diet. He lost quite a bit of weight last summer.

I don't think he will have any problem getting to 225 by the end of the offseason and keep his weight around 220 for the NFL playoffs next year;) He just turned 21 three months ago and I expect he will carry at least a little more weight as he ages as most people do.

I know he will do everything the NFL strength coaches tell him to and outwork anyone else on the team. He lives and breaths football and wont participate in distractions. Caring for his mother with her cancer treatments while he was in high school forced him to grow up much faster than most other kids. He also took extra classes and summer school to graduate in only 2 1/2 years.
Hey Teddy! Welcome to the site!

Kidding. Thanks for the insight.

I've said it multiple times - the concern with TB's size isn't his weight. It's his body structure in terms of thin wrists and ankles. Adding bulk can help those areas slightly, but he's simply a thin-framed kid.

Not saying I agree with those concerns, but it's reasonable to think that thin ankles and wrists aren't ideal for the NFL game.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Default Bridgewater

It would be nice if I could take his place and have Bridgewater's future income. I am definitely rooting for him to succeed in the NFL. I wouldn't worry about his wrists and upper body strength, but I doubt he will have thicker ankles any time soon. His lower legs look like a 21 year old basketball player's legs. In the next 5 years at least, I doubt his legs get any bigger than Kaepernick's.

I will say that he has held up with hits as well as anyone could possibly expect. Louisville's pass blocking on the offensive line has been pretty bad at times over the last 3 years but he has shown poise, has willingly thrown the ball out of bounds, and protected his body well. Those late season games in 2012 when he had a leg injury entirely taking away his mobility with suspect pass protection were as impressive with regards to toughness and grit as I've seen from a quarterback. Watch the 2012 games vs. UConn, Rutgers and Florida with his gimpy leg if you want to see his determination. He rarely had a play with a clean pocket, especially against UConn, and took monster hits and sacks by Sio Moore, Trevardo Williams and Jon Bostic. I've not seen him rattled.

He also has been given the keys to the offense more so than more than half the NFL starting QBs. He really does well with pre-snap adjustments and changes plays, running an offense like Peyton and Brady do. He also does an excellent job spreading the ball around to many receivers, and sees the whole field very well. He has all the physical attributes you need, but his best attributes are above the neck and his determination.
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Old 02-21-2014, 06:54 PM    (permalink
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I agree that his intangibles, toughness, and football smarts are off the charts good.

However, in terms of durability the NFL is a completely different animal and it's easy for draftniks to watch college tape and declare a guy someone we'd pick without millions of dollars and our career in the balance if he gets hurt.

I argued hard for Tavon Austin last year. I thought his size was completely overblown and used his stellar college durability as an example. But looking back, I think that was flawed thinking and easy for me to say with nothing on the line. And sure enough, he was injured this year.

To your point about his toughness - we've seen him take a bunch of hits in college and bounce right back up (including the famous Florida play). That's terrific stuff to watch but NFL evaluators might not look at it as such a positive. He got absolutely crushed by a gigantic college kid (Bostic who's now in the NFL) and while we LOVED his reaction afterwards, if you look at how his body was impacted by that hit - that's just plain scary. Three of those a game, or similar impacts, and it's tough to NOT envision a guy with his frame getting hurt.

It's really an interesting debate (and notice that I'm supporting Manziel in this because he has similar concerns) and I used to scoff at small size equaling durability question marks in scouting reports. But there's a reason evaluators think that way. Are they too conservative? Probably. But again, that's easy for us to say.

And I'm sure the first response to this will be that he weighed in at 214 today and is much bigger since that hit. That's true and it's a good point. But he still has thin ankles and wrists and NFL people are scared of that. Whether or not those fears are justified is a whole new debate (and deals with past results and comparisons which I hate).
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Old 02-21-2014, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Default True

It is true a player can be very durable for several years and then get more fragile or injured and everything changes. Any player can take the wrong hit and have their career ended immediately or their skill level permanently diminished.

It is also almost impossible to predict a person's ability to withstand perpetual battering. You can look at Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Muhammad Ali, or Chuck Lidell and see what can happen to an athlete that didn't have a major injury but took pounding after pounding. They were durable athletes until they weren't anymore.

On the other hand you can have guys like Patrick Willis or Frank Gore who were injured quite a bit in college and had fairly healthy NFL careers. Injuries are almost useless to predict compared to forcasting skill, athleticism, or determination.
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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Honestly his height and weight are a check box for me. He passed without major concern today. He is a little thin but it doesn't seem to be an issue on the field. Him being thin is not significant issue really as a prospect. Sure I'd like him to be 230 but it's not like he won't put on a little more weight in his career and he isn't going to explode on first contact or anything.
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Old 02-23-2014, 02:00 AM    (permalink
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It's funny reading B/R comments about how teddy played in a to weak conference to go first overall in a article about Bortles potentially going first overall.
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Old 02-23-2014, 02:55 AM    (permalink
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I fully expect him to have real success in the NFL but something seems to be missing, every NFL.com analyst just don't seen carried completely away with him, that seems to be the general consensus pretty well for all 3 top QB prospects which is why there is no consensus as to which QB will go #1 overall as well as #2 and #3.

Kind of reminds me of the Ryan draft when Miami needed a QB but passed for Long, a LT and Ryan went #3. He turned out pretty good but has had some problems, in his case arm strength. i thought Miami was absolutely crazy to pass on him.

I've been around a long time as a draftnik over 55 years and its given me a bit of a sixth sense about when prospects are just missing something and that is definitely the feeling I'm getting right now about all 3 QB's. Now maybe at their pro days, everybody suddenly get all their worries put to rest and the cream rises to the top, but IMO, right at this moment, if 6 teams out of the first 8 picks weren't QB desperate, I don't think these guys would go 1,2 or 3. Top 10 maybe but not necessarily top 5 for all of them.

Normally, I ridicule any suggestion that the top rated QB's have issues. I usually support them through thick and thin, but this year something is definitely not kosher.
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Old 02-23-2014, 03:55 AM    (permalink
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I get the same feeling. Teddy is good but not some amazing cant miss QB prospect. He isn't elite as a prospect. I don't hate anything but I also haven't really loved anything either. He is good in a lot of ways but not great almost. What should i be gushing over from him?

Bortles is a great body and with a good arm. He can be a good QB but he isn't even an elite QB in college. Bridgewater and Manziel were both better players in college by a good margin.

Manziel was a special college guy but I have major questions how he translates to the NFL. His size, play style, and attitude all are serious concerns for the next level. He is a major risk and people don't really acknowledge that. Sure all of 2 QBs have been successful under 6' recently but Manziel doesn't play like them and the are the exception to the rule anyway.

None of these guys would compete for #1 in strong past draft classes. I put them in competition with Tannehill in the 2012 class. They don't even get into the Luck or RGIII conversation.

It's a fun debate with in the class but I'm not major sold on 2014 as a group. It is still world's better than last year though. I even thought Manuel was a reach when he got drafted. Not every year has elite QB prospects.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:13 AM    (permalink
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I get the same feeling. Teddy is good but not some amazing cant miss QB prospect. He isn't elite as a prospect. I don't hate anything but I also haven't really loved anything either. He is good in a lot of ways but not great almost. What should i be gushing over from him?

Bortles is a great body and with a good arm. He can be a good QB but he isn't even an elite QB in college. Bridgewater and Manziel were both better players in college by a good margin.

Manziel was a special college guy but I have major questions how he translates to the NFL. His size, play style, and attitude all are serious concerns for the next level. He is a major risk and people don't really acknowledge that. Sure all of 2 QBs have been successful under 6' recently but Manziel doesn't play like them and the are the exception to the rule anyway.

None of these guys would compete for #1 in strong past draft classes. I put them in competition with Tannehill in the 2012 class. They don't even get into the Luck or RGIII conversation.

It's a fun debate with in the class but I'm not major sold on 2014 as a group. It is still world's better than last year though. I even thought Manuel was a reach when he got drafted. Not every year has elite QB prospects.
Manziel and Bridgewater are better prospects than the massively overrated RG3. And what is your idea of a strong draft class? This group is loaded.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:37 AM    (permalink
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Manziel and Bridgewater are better prospects than the massively overrated RG3. And what is your idea of a strong draft class? This group is loaded.
I agree with Niel89 on every point about the QB's and I completely disagree that as a prospect RG111 was overrated. I don't think that Manziel and Bridgewater are even close to RG111 as a prospect and I still expect RG111 to become a huge star if he can stay healthy.

I'm not agreeing with Niel89 that this draft class overall is not solid. I agree with you, it is the best I've seen in a long time in terms of top end talent and depth. IMO, the top 20 picks in this year's draft would all have competed for the top 10 picks in last years draft, that's how strong this year's draft is and as far as depth goes, this draft is deep for 4 rounds even at the QB position.

I think I'd put this QB crop ahead of Tannehill on one point. Tannehill had a mediocre season in his draft year which raised some serious flags for me. I believe he had a losing record, at least this year's crop were all winners in their last season.
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:11 AM    (permalink
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I agree with Niel89 on every point about the QB's and I completely disagree that as a prospect RG111 was overrated. I don't think that Manziel and Bridgewater are even close to RG111 as a prospect and I still expect RG111 to become a huge star if he can stay healthy.

I'm not agreeing with Niel89 that this draft class overall is not solid. I agree with you, it is the best I've seen in a long time in terms of top end talent and depth. IMO, the top 20 picks in this year's draft would all have competed for the top 10 picks in last years draft, that's how strong this year's draft is and as far as depth goes, this draft is deep for 4 rounds even at the QB position.

I think I'd put this QB crop ahead of Tannehill on one point. Tannehill had a mediocre season in his draft year which raised some serious flags for me. I believe he had a losing record, at least this year's crop were all winners in their last season.
RG3 needs a lot of development as a passer. Washington did him no favors by giving a system that would grant him short-term success. The success he had as a rookie simply is not sustainable, because he can't take punishment like Cam Newton. So when Washington understood that they had to dial down his running, they opened him up to a ton of scrutiny - which was half-fair. He should have struggled through his rookie season, learning to play the QB position, then improved some into his second season, and been ready to take a major leap going into his third season. Based on what I've seen, he hasn't improved enough as a passer to project that he'll take significant steps forward in his third season.

That aside, I question his make up. I don't see a leader or a guy who even knows what it means to be a leader. He's perfect for the Redskins. Hype and disappointment.
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:54 AM    (permalink
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I get the same feeling. Teddy is good but not some amazing cant miss QB prospect. He isn't elite as a prospect. I don't hate anything but I also haven't really loved anything either. He is good in a lot of ways but not great almost. What should i be gushing over from him?
Success at the QB position is more about the sum of all parts rather than having one or two big selling point's that you can buy into someone.

What good is big and tall or being able to run fast with a big arm if ...........

You are not poised
Don't have elite pocket presence
You are not consistently accurate
You are not polished
You are not able to read a defense quickly
You can't run an offense from the line of scrimmage
Played in an offense with 3,5,7 step drops with play action from under centre
You are not tough and won't hang in the pocket.

It's better to be adapt at all aspects than have a few selling point's while missing other area's of the game that are most important. That will get you a Blaine Gabbert.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:33 AM    (permalink
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Success at the QB position is more about the sum of all parts rather than having one or two big selling point's that you can buy into someone.

What good is big and tall or being able to run fast with a big arm if ...........

You are not poised
Don't have elite pocket presence
You are not consistently accurate
You are not polished
You are not able to read a defense quickly
You can't run an offense from the line of scrimmage
Played in an offense with 3,5,7 step drops with play action from under centre
You are not tough and won't hang in the pocket.

It's better to be adapt at all aspects than have a few selling point's while missing other area's of the game that are most important. That will get you a Blaine Gabbert.
Good post.

Bridgewater would be the #1 QB in most drafts. Obviously, I have him behind Manziel, but (as I've said before) that's not a knock on Bridgewater.

Speaking of QB prospects since 2009, I'd go:

Luck
Newton/Manziel
Bridgewater
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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RG3 needs a lot of development as a passer. Washington did him no favors by giving a system that would grant him short-term success. The success he had as a rookie simply is not sustainable, because he can't take punishment like Cam Newton. So when Washington understood that they had to dial down his running, they opened him up to a ton of scrutiny - which was half-fair. He should have struggled through his rookie season, learning to play the QB position, then improved some into his second season, and been ready to take a major leap going into his third season. Based on what I've seen, he hasn't improved enough as a passer to project that he'll take significant steps forward in his third season.

That aside, I question his make up. I don't see a leader or a guy who even knows what it means to be a leader. He's perfect for the Redskins. Hype and disappointment.
RG3 missed the entire offseason and came back too soon.
Even new HC Jay Gruden questioned how any QB would be ready to start the season after spending the entire spring and summer rehabbing.

RG3 needs to get quicker with some of his reads, that's really where he needs to develop. He too often doesn't trust what his eyes see, or at least he didn't last season.

As for all that bunk about Robert's mental makeup and leadership, all I can say is that is was a total clusterfcuk in D.C. last year because the HC was leaking weekly total BS to Adam Schefter to smear the team.

Mike Shanahan is a punk. Yeah I said it.

When your HC says he considered quitting before the Seattle playoff game in 2012, or that your starting QB doesn't want his negative plays shown in team meetings, or that the HC is threatened by Dan Snyder visiting RG3 in the hospital, SHanny never should have been hired.

Even Gruden said he didn't know what was going on in D.C. last year, but the leaks have got to stop.

Right, especially when your HC is the source of said leaks.

As college QBs Manziel and RG3 are similar, but Manziel was simply better overall IMO which on the college level is saying a lot.

However RG3 has better tools than Manziel so can see why many still regard him as a better prospect.

I think Manziel is getting hit unintentionally with the height thing too like Wilson.

If he was 6'2, I don't think there would be much question about who the #1 overall pick would be for Houston.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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I fully expect him to have real success in the NFL but something seems to be missing, every NFL.com analyst just don't seen carried completely away with him, that seems to be the general consensus pretty well for all 3 top QB prospects which is why there is no consensus as to which QB will go #1 overall as well as #2 and #3.

Kind of reminds me of the Ryan draft when Miami needed a QB but passed for Long, a LT and Ryan went #3. He turned out pretty good but has had some problems, in his case arm strength. i thought Miami was absolutely crazy to pass on him.

I've been around a long time as a draftnik over 55 years and its given me a bit of a sixth sense about when prospects are just missing something and that is definitely the feeling I'm getting right now about all 3 QB's. Now maybe at their pro days, everybody suddenly get all their worries put to rest and the cream rises to the top, but IMO, right at this moment, if 6 teams out of the first 8 picks weren't QB desperate, I don't think these guys would go 1,2 or 3. Top 10 maybe but not necessarily top 5 for all of them.

Normally, I ridicule any suggestion that the top rated QB's have issues. I usually support them through thick and thin, but this year something is definitely not kosher.
I've also had a tough time getting a read on this QB class. All 3 are talented, but I can't fully commit to any of the 3 right now. I'm very curious to see what Houston does, as I could see an argument for any of the 3, while all 3 also have their issues.

Bortles - connections to O'Brien, prototypical build, solid athleticism. Smaller school and a bit raw though.

Bridgewater - O'Brien talked about wanting a guy like Brady, a guy who will text you at 2 in the morning asking about a random playcall or something. Bridgewater's preparation has constantly been compared to guys like Brady and Manning. The build is a concern though as is his competition

Manziel - Local kid and the most dynamic talent. Height,character and ability fromthe pocket are all concerns though.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure why I thought Bridgewater weighing in well would cause the questions about him to die down. Now we're mentioning "sixth senses" as a question mark.....
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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I feel Teddy is hurting himself by being a bystander this weekend.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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I feel Teddy is hurting himself by being a bystander this weekend.
I wish he had at least done all of the physical tests. I wouldn't be surprised if people start thinking that he didn't run the 40 because the extra weight he put on slowed him down. It'll all be forgotten after his Pro Day hopefully.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure why I thought Bridgewater weighing in well would cause the questions about him to die down. Now we're mentioning "sixth senses" as a question mark.....
12 months from now Bridgewater is going to be called one of the biggest steals from this draft.

He's going to lead some team to the playoffs in 2014 and is on the short list for OROTY.

I still don't know why he didn't run, however.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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I feel Teddy is hurting himself by being a bystander this weekend.
I'd have preferred if he did run but if you like him it's not going to change your mind.

He did stuff like the vertical and broad jump.

However his 40 time is not important to him as he is not a runner.
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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I feel Teddy is hurting himself by being a bystander this weekend.
We'll still welcome him with open arms down in Jacksonville.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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What a dummy. The guy must have zero confidence in his abilities.
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