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Old 04-12-2014, 03:04 PM    (permalink
WCH
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I haven't trusted the media on these issues ever since they went out and raved about Drew Henson's workout and said that it could solidify him as a day-1 pick, possibly as high as the first round.

I guess I have trust issues when it comes to pre-draft reporting.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I just highly, highly doubt Chris Mortenson is just flat-out lying here. It just makes absolutely no sense.

It kinda reminds me of Nawrocki last year.

People are always so reluctant to believe highly respected professionals. It's really weird.

Critical of Geno Smith? RACIST!

News of a poor workout, after the world already saw one? HE HATES HIM!

Mort's job is to report news he gleans from his sources. Maybe it's just the Pats - still noteworthy.

Doubting the veracity of his claim is just ridiculous. He didn't wake up and say, 'you know what - I'm gonna make up something bad about a draft prospect'. It makes absolutely no sense. To doubt his claim - it's just denial.

One of his sources told him BW was shaky. There's no reason to not believe this.

Now if you want to go down the rabbit hole that one of his sources told him that so he would put that in the public, then I hope the tin foil hat fits your head.

And he's visited Tampa, NE, and JAC so far, and RapSheet has said "most of top 10." Doesn't mean he had a workout, I suppose. But the workouts are "private" and it would only make sense that those teams would want to see him throw after the pro day.
It's puzzling to me why you think Mort's report is 100% bulletproof. The report either came from a team or an agent (not Bridgewater's) and we're knee deep into the silly season of the draft. It wouldn't be the first or last time a reporter was fed misinformation in the run up to the draft. You don't have to believe Mortensen is a liar or biased to think that is a plausible explanation.
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Old 04-12-2014, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Now if you want to go down the rabbit hole that one of his sources told him that so he would put that in the public, then I hope the tin foil hat fits your head.
You don't even believe that teams blow smoke up the media's ass in an attempt to drive a prospect's stock up or down?

WTF?

That's like not believing in evolution.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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According to Charley Casserley, the workout only counts for about 10% of a player's rating, however, a poor performance if it is in the area where scouts and GM's already had doubts about him, based on his tape(90% of his rankings come from here) , then those doubts become magnified and a prospect can be in a free fall. Bridgewater looks to be in a free fall, how far is anybody's guess and we won't know the results till draft day.

So, if scouts after watching him on film, were worried about his hand size and how it might affect his deep throws and they were also worried about how much strength, he gets on his deep ball, 2 areas where he struggled a bit at his Pro Day, then those perceived weaknesses will take on more importance and he may indeed fall to much later in round 1.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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I could actually care less where Bridgewater is ranked or where he goes in the draft. I'd be more concerned whether he's going to be Aaron Rodgers or Geno Smith.
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Old 04-12-2014, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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According to Charley Casserley, the workout only counts for about 10% of a player's rating, however, a poor performance if it is in the area where scouts and GM's already had doubts about him, based on his tape(90% of his rankings come from here) , then those doubts become magnified and a prospect can be in a free fall. Bridgewater looks to be in a free fall, how far is anybody's guess and we won't know the results till draft day.

So, if scouts after watching him on film, were worried about his hand size and how it might affect his deep throws and they were also worried about how much strength, he gets on his deep ball, 2 areas where he struggled a bit at his Pro Day, then those perceived weaknesses will take on more importance and he may indeed fall to much later in round 1.
The free fall only exist in your mind.

1. The whole "shaky workout" rumor was ficticious

2. Rappaport has said that 2 top personnel guys from teams have had him as the number 1 qb

Free fall only exists to people who chose to believe
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Old 04-12-2014, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I can easily see a team looking over Bridgewater's shortcomings and liking him as the best QB in the draft. Inside of 20 yards, he's very accurate; he has very good instincts, and he's smart. If that's one of the top 5 teams, he'll most likely be a top 5 pick (there's always the possibility that the top 5 teams would rather wait on QB). I can just as easily see multiple teams being put off by his weak deep ball, small hands, and thin build. I have him as the 2nd best QB and 17th best player in the draft.

There are enough things to love; there are enough things to cause concern. I'm rooting for him.
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Old 04-14-2014, 05:58 AM    (permalink
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The free fall only exist in your mind.

1. The whole "shaky workout" rumor was ficticious

2. Rappaport has said that 2 top personnel guys from teams have had him as the number 1 qb

Free fall only exists to people who chose to believe
Look, I know this is the time of year where everything you hear can be a bluff, double bluff or just pure ********. But based on your own logic, why is Mort's report definitely fictitious and Rap's is definitely true.

Sure Mort may have been fed misinformation from his sources, but is it not also possible that Rapoport was as well?

Teams will publicly, under the ever elusive "annonymous source", criticize players with the hope it will drive their stock down. But in the same way, teams will also publicly laud other guys to help drive down the stock of someone else.

Look at it this way, if the Rams absolutely love Clowney, why wouldn't they do everything in their power to try and influence the Texans into taking someone else.

Chances are a lot of the stuff we are hearing about Teddy are not true. But you can't cherry pick. If you are going to say one reporter is being lied to and reporting on it then you have to consider the possibility that it is happening to another one.
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:19 AM    (permalink
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I just highly, highly doubt Chris Mortenson is just flat-out lying here. It just makes absolutely no sense.

It kinda reminds me of Nawrocki last year.

People are always so reluctant to believe highly respected professionals. It's really weird.

Critical of Geno Smith? RACIST!

News of a poor workout, after the world already saw one? HE HATES HIM!

Mort's job is to report news he gleans from his sources. Maybe it's just the Pats - still noteworthy.

Doubting the veracity of his claim is just ridiculous. He didn't wake up and say, 'you know what - I'm gonna make up something bad about a draft prospect'. It makes absolutely no sense. To doubt his claim - it's just denial.

One of his sources told him BW was shaky. There's no reason to not believe this.

Now if you want to go down the rabbit hole that one of his sources told him that so he would put that in the public, then I hope the tin foil hat fits your head.

And he's visited Tampa, NE, and JAC so far, and RapSheet has said "most of top 10." Doesn't mean he had a workout, I suppose. But the workouts are "private" and it would only make sense that those teams would want to see him throw after the pro day.
Okay, but Nawrocki IS a tool in some of his QB evaluations.

Everything he said about Cam was patently false.

Geno Smith's rookie struggles had nothing at all to do with character issues or lack of a work ethic.

When you start psychoanalyzing QB prospects and determine as a scout they have pathological weaknesses, you're stepping out of your lane.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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All I've concluded on Bridgewater is that where there is fire, there is water. There is enough conversation going on in NFL.com about his falling to suggest there is some truth to that possibility, however, how far is anybody's guess. QB desperate teams somewhere in round 1 will take the plunge starting at Tampa Bay and continuing right through round 1.

IMO, he definitely has the look of the #3 QB in the draft, you cannot teach physical build and small hands. Bortles is raw but you can see the tremendous upside with a guy that big and Manziel should be questioned since in the history of the NFL, only 3 other QB's have been successful using his style, however those 3 went to 5 Super Bowls and a # of Conference championships, and that will keep him higher on the list and in the fight for #1 QB in the draft. A lot of GM will certainly be nervous about his style of play, but there will be GM's who will risk it and take him pretty high if not #1 overall. We just don't know which of those types of GM's hold the highest pick and which of the latter hold the 1-5 pick. Going to be an interesting draft day.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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Where there is fire there is water?
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Where there is fire there is water...that is a classic mind **** of a quote lol
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Is that a Yogi Berra quote?
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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I can easily see a team looking over Bridgewater's shortcomings and liking him as the best QB in the draft. Inside of 20 yards, he's very accurate; he has very good instincts, and he's smart. If that's one of the top 5 teams, he'll most likely be a top 5 pick (there's always the possibility that the top 5 teams would rather wait on QB). I can just as easily see multiple teams being put off by his weak deep ball, small hands, and thin build. I have him as the 2nd best QB and 17th best player in the draft.

There are enough things to love; there are enough things to cause concern. I'm rooting for him.
Considering that you have Manziel as #1, your rankings don't mean much
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Look, I know this is the time of year where everything you hear can be a bluff, double bluff or just pure ********. But based on your own logic, why is Mort's report definitely fictitious and Rap's is definitely true.

Sure Mort may have been fed misinformation from his sources, but is it not also possible that Rapoport was as well?

Teams will publicly, under the ever elusive "annonymous source", criticize players with the hope it will drive their stock down. But in the same way, teams will also publicly laud other guys to help drive down the stock of someone else.

Look at it this way, if the Rams absolutely love Clowney, why wouldn't they do everything in their power to try and influence the Texans into taking someone else.

Chances are a lot of the stuff we are hearing about Teddy are not true. But you can't cherry pick. If you are going to say one reporter is being lied to and reporting on it then you have to consider the possibility that it is happening to another one.
1. One was proven wrong (Morts report), one is just pure speculation on your part

2. If the Rams loved Clowney they would already be trying to capitalize on the hype surrounding Manziel and Bortles and talk them up through the roof

3. No cherry picking, just using common sense
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Old 04-14-2014, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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All I've concluded on Bridgewater is that where there is fire, there is water. There is enough conversation going on in NFL.com about his falling to suggest there is some truth to that possibility, however, how far is anybody's guess. QB desperate teams somewhere in round 1 will take the plunge starting at Tampa Bay and continuing right through round 1.

IMO, he definitely has the look of the #3 QB in the draft, you cannot teach physical build and small hands. Bortles is raw but you can see the tremendous upside with a guy that big and Manziel should be questioned since in the history of the NFL, only 3 other QB's have been successful using his style, however those 3 went to 5 Super Bowls and a # of Conference championships, and that will keep him higher on the list and in the fight for #1 QB in the draft. A lot of GM will certainly be nervous about his style of play, but there will be GM's who will risk it and take him pretty high if not #1 overall. We just don't know which of those types of GM's hold the highest pick and which of the latter hold the 1-5 pick. Going to be an interesting draft day.
1. So NFL.com is the proven source for all things dealing with the draft.



Teams start putting out false reports out on a prospects, they are clearly trying to drive his stock down. Its obvious that he is the top qb on a couple teams boards if not majority of the 5-20 selectors.

Won't surprise me at all if he is first qb off the board come draft time. Its certainly starting to look like it

2. How long are you doing to push this small hands stuff? His hands are 9.25 inches not much smaller than Bortles and the same size as Carr and Jimmy Gs

Lol Bortles has an high upside side. Are you talking about the average armed UCF qb.

Manziel???

The bars must be open early today

Id love to know these qbs that you are talking about lol

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Old 04-14-2014, 11:05 AM    (permalink
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Bridgewater being the #1 qb on most teams boards is almost obvious at this point

Teams leaking out bad info to try and bring down his stock. Don't here that about any other qb. Probably the only qb who goes in the top 10

Clowney getting called "lazy" and "spoiled" by anonymous GM lol.

Teams are pumping in the smoke
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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I'm not convinced that Bridgewater's stock is in the free fall that some are claiming but it's pretty clear that he's not the consensus #1 QB that most thought he was before the offseason.

In truth there have been reports about Bridgewater not being as highly regarded by NFL personnel as the media thought for quite a while now. It's not just his combine/pro day workout that's brought up these questions about him.

I think it's just a case that there isn't a clear #1 at the position this year and different teams will have different guys at the top of their rankings. Personally, I have Bridgewater #1 by a wide margin and I'm not as high on Bortles or Manziel as others are. The people who don't like Bridgewater's skill set won't have their minds changed based on what he has shown this offseason.

I saw that he's meeting with the Vikings for a 3rd day today. If they do in fact like him I wonder if they're looking to target him at #8 or if they might be anticipating him being available later in the 1st.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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Lol Bortles has an high upside side. Are you talking about the average armed UCF qb.
Bortles has a better arm than Bridgewater. His velocity and accuracy issues come mostly from pretty bad lower body mechanics. But at the combine and pro day, his mechanics were leaps and bounds better than they were in 2013 and his accuracy and arm strength were much improved. They'll only get better if he goes to a team with a solid QB coach. If you have faith in your coaching staff (Houston) you should take Bortles. If you question your coaching staff (Cleveland) you should take the safer Bridgewater.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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I'm not convinced that Bridgewater's stock is in the free fall that some are claiming but it's pretty clear that he's not the consensus #1 QB that most thought he was before the offseason.

In truth there have been reports about Bridgewater not being as highly regarded by NFL personnel as the media thought for quite a while now. It's not just his combine/pro day workout that's brought up these questions about him.

I think it's just a case that there isn't a clear #1 at the position this year and different teams will have different guys at the top of their rankings. Personally, I have Bridgewater #1 by a wide margin and I'm not as high on Bortles or Manziel as others are. The people who don't like Bridgewater's skill set won't have their minds changed based on what he has shown this offseason.

I saw that he's meeting with the Vikings for a 3rd day today. If they do in fact like him I wonder if they're looking to target him at #8 or if they might be anticipating him being available later in the 1st.
I would agree with you however the false Mort Report says everything

Clearly there is a team or teams that covet him enough to attempt to drop his stock.

He has just enough warts (frame size) and lack of a consistent deepball to where a team who really likes him can can control the narrative.
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Bortles has a better arm than Bridgewater. His velocity and accuracy issues come mostly from pretty bad lower body mechanics. But at the combine and pro day, his mechanics were leaps and bounds better than they were in 2013 and his accuracy and arm strength were much improved. They'll only get better if he goes to a team with a solid QB coach. If you have faith in your coaching staff (Houston) you should take Bortles. If you question your coaching staff (Cleveland) you should take the safer Bridgewater.
On film Bridgewater had better velocity on his short to intermediate throws

Bortles arm looked much better on his pro day, but what happens when the bullets start flying. Especially since Houston is most likely getting Clowney, do you feel comfortable enough that you can clean up Bortles' mental mistakes if you are the Jags or the Browns?
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Old 04-14-2014, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by worldtheofend View Post
I would agree with you however the false Mort Report says everything

Clearly there is a team or teams that covet him enough to attempt to drop his stock.

He has just enough warts (frame size) and lack of a consistent deepball to where a team who really likes him can can control the narrative.
It's certainly possible. I definitely think that there are teams that have him as their #1 QB and if those teams are picking outside of the top 5 it would make sense for them to try to drive his stock down in the hopes that he'll fall to them.

I do however think that there are teams who legitimately dislike him as a prospect and therefore I wouldn't just assume that every negative rumor about him is a smokescreen. The Mort Report in question certainly looks sketchy given the information we have.
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Old 04-14-2014, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
All I've concluded on Bridgewater is that where there is fire, there is water. There is enough conversation going on in NFL.com about his falling to suggest there is some truth to that possibility, however, how far is anybody's guess. QB desperate teams somewhere in round 1 will take the plunge starting at Tampa Bay and continuing right through round 1.

IMO, he definitely has the look of the #3 QB in the draft, you cannot teach physical build and small hands. Bortles is raw but you can see the tremendous upside with a guy that big and Manziel should be questioned since in the history of the NFL, only 3 other QB's have been successful using his style, however those 3 went to 5 Super Bowls and a # of Conference championships, and that will keep him higher on the list and in the fight for #1 QB in the draft. A lot of GM will certainly be nervous about his style of play, but there will be GM's who will risk it and take him pretty high if not #1 overall. We just don't know which of those types of GM's hold the highest pick and which of the latter hold the 1-5 pick. Going to be an interesting draft day.
But Bortles hand size is only 1/8 inch bigger than Teddy's (not even a full inch)! And like I mentioned previously, Teddy is still young and will have time to fill out his frame. He lost a lot of weight because of his jaw surgery.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by worldtheofend View Post
Bridgewater being the #1 qb on most teams boards is almost obvious at this point

Teams leaking out bad info to try and bring down his stock. Don't here that about any other qb. Probably the only qb who goes in the top 10

Clowney getting called "lazy" and "spoiled" by anonymous GM lol.

Teams are pumping in the smoke
I love your irrational exuberance.
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Old 04-14-2014, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by worldtheofend View Post
On film Bridgewater had better velocity on his short to intermediate throws

Bortles arm looked much better on his pro day, but what happens when the bullets start flying. Especially since Houston is most likely getting Clowney, do you feel comfortable enough that you can clean up Bortles' mental mistakes if you are the Jags or the Browns?
I don't think Clowney is most likely to be drafted by Houston. Remember, last time that a "once a generation, freak DE" came out was in 2006 when Mario Williams was picked by the Texans and he was unable to make the anticipated impacted. First it was Jevon Kearse, then Peppers, then Mario Williams and now Clowney - the zomgzzzz athleticzzzzz defensive ends. How many teams did these guys lead to super bowl victories? I am pretty sure Houston is well aware of the Williams pick and how it did not turn out as anticipated.

The fact that Houston has a pretty solid front seven already also makes me wonder why they would draft Clowney. They have the best DE in the game, their biggest hole in the front seven is at the nose tackle spot. They have Mercilus and Reed as their two OLB. It was not the front seven of that defense that was the primary issue. It was their horrid secondary and the decline of Schaub.
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