Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Pro Football

Pro Football Discuss professional football.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-25-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
wicket
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Posts: 8,867
Reputation: 249836
wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
That's a statement right there.
Don't beat around the bush wicket. Tell us what you really feel about the Saints as a team.
well the saints were statistically the worst defense in the history of football
__________________


Saints 2014 draft wish list:
- No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
- Corner or Wideout in the first
- No reaching
- No Kelvin Benjamin
wicket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 10:35 AM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,416
Reputation: 3103569
Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Bert Macklin is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACKmanN View Post
Aaron Rodgers did more.
Aaron Rodgers didn't have the worst defense of all time. Next.
Bert Macklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
jrdrylie
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,591
Reputation: 4645696
jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Macklin View Post
Aaron Rodgers didn't have the worst defense of all time. Next.
Neither did New Orleans. They didn't even give up the most points last year and were 7th in the league in turnovers created, so calling them the worst of all time is a stretch.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
Bortlezzzzzzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
jrdrylie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
wicket
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Posts: 8,867
Reputation: 249836
wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Neither did New Orleans. They didn't even give up the most points last year and were 7th in the league in turnovers created, so calling them the worst of all time is a stretch.
Most Yards Allowed, Season
7,042 New Orleans 2012
6,793 Baltimore 1981
6,403 Green Bay 1983
6,391 Seattle 2000
6,352 Minnesota 1984


yeah, its not that big of a stretch.

Also, top 5 in passer rating allowed, highest ypc allowed, highest yards per play allowed. #2 in scoring allowed, most offensive TDs allowed.

but mainly the yardage allowed record hasnt just been bettered, its been smashed by almost a game worth of yardage.
__________________


Saints 2014 draft wish list:
- No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
- Corner or Wideout in the first
- No reaching
- No Kelvin Benjamin
wicket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:47 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,418
Reputation: 2073969
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Points matter at the end of the day not yards, next.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:49 AM    (permalink
wicket
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Posts: 8,867
Reputation: 249836
wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
Points matter at the end of the day not yards, next.
by that logic

my opinion matters, not yours, next.
__________________


Saints 2014 draft wish list:
- No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
- Corner or Wideout in the first
- No reaching
- No Kelvin Benjamin
wicket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,418
Reputation: 2073969
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
by that logic

my opinion matters, not yours, next.
Not at all, you win games by scoring more points than the other team. The rest is pretty much noise. There have been plenty of poor yardage teams that fare very well in points per game which is ultimately what matters. I'm not arguing that your defense didn't suck last year because it did, but by no stretch were they the worst of all time. You're just being melodramatic again.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 12:18 PM    (permalink
wicket
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Posts: 8,867
Reputation: 249836
wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
Not at all, you win games by scoring more points than the other team. The rest is pretty much noise. There have been plenty of poor yardage teams that fare very well in points per game which is ultimately what matters. I'm not arguing that your defense didn't suck last year because it did, but by no stretch were they the worst of all time. You're just being melodramatic again.
not really what happened was it.

By just focusing on points allowed you miss the fact that the saints (by good punting and good offense) gave opponents relatively long fields makings scores less evident. The saints also allowed relatively few special team points.

But hey, lets act like points are all that matters and totally ignore that a team systematically starting with a shorter field is bound to score more.

yardage is how "total defense" is ranked for a reason, there is no all-inclusive stat that covers all aspects so a team that hammers the yardage records and is pretty impressively craptacular in the other categories has a good claim to be the most awful D in history.
__________________


Saints 2014 draft wish list:
- No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
- Corner or Wideout in the first
- No reaching
- No Kelvin Benjamin
wicket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
The Professor (Hall of Famer)
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 36,299
Reputation: 2341466
bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.bearsfan_51 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
because, quite simply he wasnt. without brees the saints wouldve been 0-16 most likely last season. the defense was the worst of all time, the running game kept force feeding ingram making it totally ineffective. the line looked flat out bad blocking, Graham regressed. Really the only plusses, besides brees, were Joe Morgan and the punter, Thomas Morstead.

Yet brees gets hate for only having another 5000 yard season knowing he is the only one who can win games for the saints? Yes he got overagressive in a game or two but it doesnt help knowing you have to virtually score on every single drive because your defense is less effective than the cardboard cutouts of themselves you can find in department stores.
This doesn't make any sense. Ryan arguably was more efficient at passing the ball last year. If Brees forced too many passes last year (he did), that's nobody's fault but his. If it's a calculated risk to try and make a play, he didn't do a very good job at them, and that's his fault.

To reiterate, nothing you said refuted the stats that I pointed out. Ryan was more efficient with the ball last year. I'm sure that some of that is because he was asked to do less, but that's no more his fault than it is that Brees was asked to do too much.
__________________


Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.
bearsfan_51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
Rosebud
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Enjoying a succulent peach
Posts: 10,596
Reputation: 2578670
Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rosebud is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

And that saints defense still isn't as bad as the 0-16 Lions D or the Broncos of those days, which Cutler managed to drag to 8-8 records while putting up huge numbers.
__________________

BK

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
Quote:
Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
Rosebud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
jrdrylie
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,591
Reputation: 4645696
jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
By just focusing on points allowed you miss the fact that the saints (by good punting and good offense) gave opponents relatively long fields makings scores less evident. The saints also allowed relatively few special team points.
Don't you hate it when you make up some statistic and some jackass uses the pesky Internet to blow a hole right through that made up stat? The average starting field position for offenses going against the New Orleans Saints was the 29.5 yard line. Let's see where that ranks.

Seattle Seahawks- 24.7
San Francisco 49ers- 25.1
Atlanta Falcons- 25.5
Indianapolis Colts- 25.7
Denver Broncos- 25.7
New England Patriots- 26.1
Cincinnati Bengals- 26.3
Green Bay Packers- 26.3
Tampa Bay Buccaneers- 26.7
San Diego Chargers- 26.7
Dallas Cowboys- 26.8
Chicago Bears- 27.0
Baltimore Ravens- 27.3
Minnesota Vikings- 27.3
New York Giants- 27.9
Washington Redskins- 28.0
Houston Texans- 28.1
Cleveland Browns- 28.1
Kansas City Chiefs- 28.2
Miami Dolphins- 28.3
Jacksonville Jaguars- 28.3
Arizona Cardinals- 28.6
New York Jets- 28.7
Carolina Panthers- 29.3

25th in the league. So only 7 teams gave their opponents less yards to cover than the Saints. So that whole "we gave the offenses less yards to work with" crap is completely untrue.

Or how you gave up relatively few special teams TDs? Well, you did only give up one. But 14 teams actually gave up zero return TDs. 8 other teams gave up only one. So, the Saints were actually average, not relatively low.

So nice try, but next time you want to make up some stats, make sure it's during the zombie apocalypse where nobody has access to the Internet to completely disprove them.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
Bortlezzzzzzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
jrdrylie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 05:20 PM    (permalink
wicket
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Posts: 8,867
Reputation: 249836
wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Don't you hate it when you make up some statistic and some jackass uses the pesky Internet to blow a hole right through that made up stat? The average starting field position for offenses going against the New Orleans Saints was the 29.5 yard line. Let's see where that ranks.

Seattle Seahawks- 24.7
San Francisco 49ers- 25.1
Atlanta Falcons- 25.5
Indianapolis Colts- 25.7
Denver Broncos- 25.7
New England Patriots- 26.1
Cincinnati Bengals- 26.3
Green Bay Packers- 26.3
Tampa Bay Buccaneers- 26.7
San Diego Chargers- 26.7
Dallas Cowboys- 26.8
Chicago Bears- 27.0
Baltimore Ravens- 27.3
Minnesota Vikings- 27.3
New York Giants- 27.9
Washington Redskins- 28.0
Houston Texans- 28.1
Cleveland Browns- 28.1
Kansas City Chiefs- 28.2
Miami Dolphins- 28.3
Jacksonville Jaguars- 28.3
Arizona Cardinals- 28.6
New York Jets- 28.7
Carolina Panthers- 29.3

25th in the league. So only 7 teams gave their opponents less yards to cover than the Saints. So that whole "we gave the offenses less yards to work with" crap is completely untrue.

Or how you gave up relatively few special teams TDs? Well, you did only give up one. But 14 teams actually gave up zero return TDs. 8 other teams gave up only one. So, the Saints were actually average, not relatively low.

So nice try, but next time you want to make up some stats, make sure it's during the zombie apocalypse where nobody has access to the Internet to completely disprove them.
which is all and nice but we longsince established that this saints team should be compared to the worst defensive teams in history, not the rest of this years league. thing 81 baltimore and stuff as a basis of comparison
__________________


Saints 2014 draft wish list:
- No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
- Corner or Wideout in the first
- No reaching
- No Kelvin Benjamin
wicket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2013, 05:59 PM    (permalink
jrdrylie
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,591
Reputation: 4645696
jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wicket View Post
which is all and nice but we longsince established that this saints team should be compared to the worst defensive teams in history, not the rest of this years league. thing 81 baltimore and stuff as a basis of comparison
That is what we are doing. We are saying that points is what matters more. You came back and said that the Saints gave the offenses longer fields to work with and allowed relatively few special teams touchdowns. But neither of those is true. They gave offenses fewer yards to cover than 75% of the league. only 31% of the league gave up more special teams TDs than them.

So neither of your excuses for why they gave up so few points was true. Now, you want to compare them with the '81 Colts? Let's do that.

New Orleans Saints gave up 7042 yards compared to 6793 for the Colts. So they gave up 4.4% more yards. However, offenses in 1981 put up 3.7% fewer yards than they did in 2012. So if you add 3.7% to the Colts total, you get 7041 yards.

Move on to points. New Orleans only gave up 454 points. Baltimore gave up 533! That's 14.8% fewer. This is despite the fact that in 2012, teams on average score 2.1 points more per game.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
Bortlezzzzzzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
jrdrylie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2013, 03:24 AM    (permalink
wicket
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Posts: 8,867
Reputation: 249836
wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.wicket is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
That is what we are doing. We are saying that points is what matters more. You came back and said that the Saints gave the offenses longer fields to work with and allowed relatively few special teams touchdowns. But neither of those is true. They gave offenses fewer yards to cover than 75% of the league. only 31% of the league gave up more special teams TDs than them.

So neither of your excuses for why they gave up so few points was true. Now, you want to compare them with the '81 Colts? Let's do that.

New Orleans Saints gave up 7042 yards compared to 6793 for the Colts. So they gave up 4.4% more yards. However, offenses in 1981 put up 3.7% fewer yards than they did in 2012. So if you add 3.7% to the Colts total, you get 7041 yards.

Move on to points. New Orleans only gave up 454 points. Baltimore gave up 533! That's 14.8% fewer. This is despite the fact that in 2012, teams on average score 2.1 points more per game.
this is nice and all but all ive argued is that points arent the go to metric to judge a defense by
__________________


Saints 2014 draft wish list:
- No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
- Corner or Wideout in the first
- No reaching
- No Kelvin Benjamin
wicket is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.