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Old 07-17-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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If the debate is will Dallas draft a QB in Round 1 or 2, I would emphatically say no with Romo's contract. However with the backup being Kyle Orton or Nick Stephens, Dallas absolutely MUST draft a QB in 2014 as a backup. I think a mid-round target like Keith Price of Washington, Manziel if he declares, or Stephen Morris of Miami would make a good deal of sense.

I guess for all we know Romo suffers a debilitating injury in 2013 and ups the time table for a new QB. But it's been 24 years since Dallas spent 2 first round picks on QBs (Aikman and a Supplemental wasted pick on Steve Walsh).
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Johnny Manziel may have won the Heisman Trophy, but he certainly isn’t going to get Counselor of the Year from the Manning Passing Academy.

According to a source, Manziel was a problem for Archie, Peyton and Eli Manning from the moment he arrived at the Louisiana passing camp until the second his parents called in sick for him.

The source told the Daily News that Manziel’s troubles started way before he went out partying into the early hours on Friday morning.

It began on the first night of camp — which is held at Nicholls (La.) State University in Thibodaux, La., — on Thursday, when Manziel, the source said, was not only a late arrival, but also missed the coaches’ meeting preparing for the next day.

Early Friday morning, a picture of Manziel with fellow counselor and Alabama QB A.J. McCarron at a local bar was tweeted out.

Manziel would also be late for the early training sessions later that day before arriving and taking part in regular camp activities.

On Saturday morning, Manziel was nowhere to be found. The source said camp officials were soon dispatched to search for him, to no avail.

Camp officials then called Manziel’s parents, who, hours later, would call them back saying their son was too sick to take part.

That was when, the source said, Archie and camp officials decided it would best if Manziel were to just go home.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...#ixzz2ZJTFfyAk

Can the Jets please draft him? Please?
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/co...#ixzz2ZJTFfyAk

Can the Jets please draft him? Please?
I saw the other day after he left "sick" he was seen at bars in College Station. This kid makes Joe Namath seem like Peyton Manning with the outside partying. I'm not saying don't live up the college life while you are a god on campus, but well it's hard to believe the NFL will look kindly upon this from any player, but especially not a QB and potential face of the franchise.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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If the debate is will Dallas draft a QB in Round 1 or 2, I would emphatically say no with Romo's contract. However with the backup being Kyle Orton or Nick Stephens, Dallas absolutely MUST draft a QB in 2014 as a backup. I think a mid-round target like Keith Price of Washington, Manziel if he declares, or Stephen Morris of Miami would make a good deal of sense.

I guess for all we know Romo suffers a debilitating injury in 2013 and ups the time table for a new QB. But it's been 24 years since Dallas spent 2 first round picks on QBs (Aikman and a Supplemental wasted pick on Steve Walsh).
they got a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for him so not all was lost.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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I saw the other day after he left "sick" he was seen at bars in College Station. This kid makes Joe Namath seem like Peyton Manning with the outside partying. I'm not saying don't live up the college life while you are a god on campus, but well it's hard to believe the NFL will look kindly upon this from any player, but especially not a QB and potential face of the franchise.
players back then were often much worse, they just werent in a media infatuated society
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:32 PM    (permalink
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players back then were often much worse, they just werent in a media infatuated society
I opined on that earlier. However NFL teams also weren't quite investigating players backgrounds anywhere nearly as thoroughly as they do now, especially if that player is the likely face of the franchise. Given the E!SPN hype machine, regardless of what round he goes, Manziel will likely get Tebow-esque coverage from E!SPN once in the NFL which will further make teams call his character and off the field antics into question. I think it is a stretch to say he has the necessary physical attributes to succeed in the NFL, however he has absolutely none of the necessary maturity to be an NFL QB. Hell Terrelle Pryor had his character highly questioned by NFL teams and he has nothing on Manziel.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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If the debate is will Dallas draft a QB in Round 1 or 2, I would emphatically say no with Romo's contract. However with the backup being Kyle Orton or Nick Stephens, Dallas absolutely MUST draft a QB in 2014 as a backup. I think a mid-round target like Keith Price of Washington, Manziel if he declares, or Stephen Morris of Miami would make a good deal of sense.

I guess for all we know Romo suffers a debilitating injury in 2013 and ups the time table for a new QB. But it's been 24 years since Dallas spent 2 first round picks on QBs (Aikman and a Supplemental wasted pick on Steve Walsh).
Thank you.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I saw the other day after he left "sick" he was seen at bars in College Station. This kid makes Joe Namath seem like Peyton Manning with the outside partying. I'm not saying don't live up the college life while you are a god on campus, but well it's hard to believe the NFL will look kindly upon this from any player, but especially not a QB and potential face of the franchise.
Wow.

This is his offseason. lol.

He drank too much on one of his offseason nights. Big freaking deal.

This slight hiccup of what outsiders have labeled should be his priority (accepting an invitation to be a 'counselor' at a high-celebrity and publicized camp) will have NOTHING to do with his evaluation, especially after an entire second season.

This is the product of one of the slowest sports weeks on the calendar and will at the VERY MOST elicit one question during his interviews - probably just to see how he deals with his buttons being pushed.

He's 20. Acting like a kid. Clearly he likes to go out and party. At age 20. He shouldn't be mature at this age.
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Old 07-17-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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You really need to learn how to read.

For the 20th time. I don't think the Cowboys are drafting a qb! I never said that. Never. I said I wouldn't rule it out. I said the chances are greater than 0% but not much more. I never argued with you about how likely it is, why they are going to draft one, or anything of the sort. I argued with you that:

1. Tony Romo is only locked in until 2015, not 2018.
2. The Cowboys aren't going to not draft a qb because of his contract.

Them not not drafting a qb =/= they are drafting a qb, remenber those 9th grade logic proofs? Stop trying to make it sound like I said something different in an effort to win this argument. Everyone who's chimed in has agreed with me and no one agrees with you. You lost. Stop posting. End this.

PS- I posted 2 reasons why they wouldn't draft a qb, and debated your reasons for them not drafting one which included Romo's contract. Please, quote for me when I posted reasons why I think they will draft one. Yet again, putting words in my mouth.
As someone accusing another of acting like a 10 year old, you sure don't seem fit to accuse. You turned a normal forum debate into a self pity party, dished out personal attacks because you couldn't handle someone calling you out on how silly you sound, then tried to claim innocence? Too funny.

But I've seen you react this way in the past from the Forum mock so I can't say that I'm surprised to see it again. The only reason why I'm not debating with you about Romo's contract being cap friendly after 2015 is because this isn't the thread for that. We can take it to the Cowboys forum if you want. So don't think that you're on high ground with that point just because I haven't argued against it here. Eating $11.6M dollars isn't exactly a lovely thing to do. Come 2018 he has no guaranteed money owed, with 2 years left on his deal. That's when you can really say he's cuttable. But this is not the place for this discussion.

...for the umpteenth time... you're wrong about the Cowboys if you think there's even a slight possibility that they will take a QB in Round 1.

This is the definition of your take on it...

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Old 07-17-2013, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys probably won't, but if there is a QB who falls who they love they absolutely should think about spending a 1st or 2nd. Romo's contract doesn't completely lock them in as much as it looks and there is room to upgrade the QB position at a backup or starter role. There is only maybe a ten percent chance they would actually draft a QB early, but they should consider it. Romo's play if far from untouchable. A drafted QB with a couple year to develop could be a very appealing option in 3 years if Romo doesn't find more playoff success.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys probably won't, but if there is a QB who falls who they love they absolutely should think about spending a 1st or 2nd. Romo's contract doesn't completely lock them in as much as it looks and there is room to upgrade the QB position at a backup or starter role. There is only maybe a ten percent chance they would actually draft a QB early, but they should consider it. Romo's play if far from untouchable. A drafted QB with a couple year to develop could be a very appealing option in 3 years if Romo doesn't find more playoff success.
2nd round is more open to discussion than the 1st round. But there are still heavy doubts.

Developing QBs really isn't needed. The more and more you look around, teams with immediate QB needs either start them as rookies or they find a veteran. Gone are the days of drafting QBs to groom to be ready in 3-4 years down the road. Teams are learning that they can find them in year 1 or 2. The college game is preparing them better for it. Having veteran backup QB is the smart way to go because they are not wet behind the ears. If you're backup is a developmental mid to late round pick that you're hoping can be your future, then you're risking and asking for a lot.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Wow.

This is his offseason. lol.

He drank too much on one of his offseason nights. Big freaking deal.

This slight hiccup of what outsiders have labeled should be his priority (accepting an invitation to be a 'counselor' at a high-celebrity and publicized camp) will have NOTHING to do with his evaluation, especially after an entire second season.

This is the product of one of the slowest sports weeks on the calendar and will at the VERY MOST elicit one question during his interviews - probably just to see how he deals with his buttons being pushed.

He's 20. Acting like a kid. Clearly he likes to go out and party. At age 20. He shouldn't be mature at this age.
I agree and disagree. This story is getting overblown but Manziel is also screwing up a very nice opportunity. He is the highest profile college football player right now and for him to blow off some thing as big as the Manning passing camp screams that he is full of himself. He can party all he wants but focus up for a couple days and handle this camp. If you want to be on TV and be a star you should expect to get **** on when you blow off an important camp for your future. For a guy who is lacking in physical abilities, he needs to have great character to keep his stock afloat. At 20 years old he should know better. I want my QB to be a leader instead of blowing things off, partying instead, and then saying everyone is doing it. As the biggest player in college football he needs to do better. This incidence won't be the only thing teams look at, but they will now have to study his character a lot closer.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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2nd round is more open to discussion than the 1st round. But there are still heavy doubts.

Developing QBs really isn't needed. The more and more you look around, teams with immediate QB needs either start them as rookies or they find a veteran. Gone are the days of drafting QBs to groom to be ready in 3-4 years down the road. Teams are learning that they can find them in year 1 or 2. The college game is preparing them better for it. Having veteran backup QB is the smart way to go because they are not wet behind the ears. If you're backup is a developmental mid to late round pick that you're hoping can be your future, then you're risking and asking for a lot.
The rookie QB success we are experiencing is crazy. So many young great players, but I still think developing a guy is still a valid option although teams aren't doing it really anymore.

Do you think if Romo still hasn't won some playoff games in 2 or 3 years there will be some serious consideration to move on? I just don't think Romo is around for more than 4 years max. I don't see the contract as an absolute. I'm not saying that the Cowboys will or have to take a QB early, but IF a QB falls who they really really love they should consider it. It would have to be a pretty unique situation but Romo isn't so great that I would ignore all other options. In the next 4 years I would take a young guy like Russell Wilson over Romo without a doubt.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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As someone accusing another of acting like a 10 year old, you sure don't seem fit to accuse. You turned a normal forum debate into a self pity party, dished out personal attacks because you couldn't handle someone calling you out on how silly you sound, then tried to claim innocence? Too funny.

But I've seen you react this way in the past from the Forum mock so I can't say that I'm surprised to see it again. The only reason why I'm not debating with you about Romo's contract being cap friendly after 2015 is because this isn't the thread for that. We can take it to the Cowboys forum if you want. So don't think that you're on high ground with that point just because I haven't argued against it here. Eating $11.6M dollars isn't exactly a lovely thing to do. Come 2018 he has no guaranteed money owed, with 2 years left on his deal. That's when you can really say he's cuttable. But this is not the place for this discussion.

...for the umpteenth time... you're wrong about the Cowboys if you think there's even a slight possibility that they will take a QB in Round 1.

This is the definition of your take on it...
You are the one who started the argument. I VERY politely informed you that Romo's contract dictates he can be let go of as early as 2015, and you turned it into a big song and dance about how the Cowboys aren't drafting a QB. Which wasn't even what I said. And for the past 3 pages of this thread I have been trying to drill that into your thick head.

How is any of what I've done in any way a self pity party? When did I dish out any personal attacks of any kind? You are completely delusional, and I can't even comprehend what would make you think these things, if you actually do think them and aren't just making things up to troll me.

Seriously, go back and look at how this started and try to say that I was the aggressor here with a straight face. I politely said "I'm pretty sure Romo's contract has few guarantees after 2015" in response to you saying he's locked in until 2018, and you fired back with "your facts are wrong." Seriously? Even then, I admitted to being slightly wrong as there was still 11.6 guaranteed after 2015, but that the cap hit would not be enough to prohibit them from moving on from Romo as his cap numbers are astronomical by then. Your response? "You're still wrong if you think the Cowboys are drafting a QB" You started it. Not me.

And no, I have not been arguing like an immature brat as you have, as I haven't made things up and put words in your mouth in desperate attempts to win the debate. I have used your direct quotes, have been as polite as I possibly can be with someone who continuously twists what I say and makes up arguments about things no one has even said. And even if what I've done can be interpreted as immature, I am not the forum administrator here, you are.

And if you seriously think Romo isn't cuttable as early as 2015, I don't know what to say to you aside from pay attention to off-season transactions more. Guys get cut, teams eat lots of cap penalties, it happens often. Especially if Romo continues to lose in 2013 and 2014, I don't see how they don't have the "renegotiate or leave" discussion in 2015 when his cap number is a whopping 24 mil.
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
He's 20. Acting like a kid. Clearly he likes to go out and party. At age 20. He shouldn't be mature at this age.
So he shouldn't be mature at this age but in a year he'll be ready to possibly lead an NFL team? BS

When I was 20, when you were 20, when anyone on this forum was 20 it didn't matter what any of us did but when you're the center of attention and everyone is aware of who you are the standards for behavior are completely different.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Robcards View Post
You are the one who started the argument. I VERY politely informed you that Romo's contract dictates he can be let go of as early as 2015, and you turned it into a big song and dance about how the Cowboys aren't drafting a QB. Which wasn't even what I said. And for the past 3 pages of this thread I have been trying to drill that into your thick head.

How is any of what I've done in any way a self pity party? When did I dish out any personal attacks of any kind? You are completely delusional, and I can't even comprehend what would make you think these things, if you actually do think them and aren't just making things up to troll me.

Seriously, go back and look at how this started and try to say that I was the aggressor here with a straight face. I politely said "I'm pretty sure Romo's contract has few guarantees after 2015" in response to you saying he's locked in until 2018, and you fired back with "your facts are wrong." Seriously? Even then, I admitted to being slightly wrong as there was still 11.6 guaranteed after 2015, but that the cap hit would not be enough to prohibit them from moving on from Romo as his cap numbers are astronomical by then. Your response? "You're still wrong if you think the Cowboys are drafting a QB" You started it. Not me.

And no, I have not been arguing like an immature brat as you have, as I haven't made things up and put words in your mouth in desperate attempts to win the debate. I have used your direct quotes, have been as polite as I possibly can be with someone who continuously twists what I say and makes up arguments about things no one has even said. And even if what I've done can be interpreted as immature, I am not the forum administrator here, you are.

And if you seriously think Romo isn't cuttable as early as 2015, I don't know what to say to you aside from pay attention to off-season transactions more. Guys get cut, teams eat lots of cap penalties, it happens often. Especially if Romo continues to lose in 2013 and 2014, I don't see how they don't have the "renegotiate or leave" discussion in 2015 when his cap number is a whopping 24 mil.
I see that I have to be the bigger man here. So I will accept that you think that there is a 5% chance that Dallas will take a qb in round 1 next year. That sure is a bold statement!
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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I see that I have to be the bigger man here. So I will accept that you think that there is a 5% chance that Dallas will take a qb in round 1 next year. That sure is a bold statement!
How is making a tongue in cheek comment like that being the bigger man? Did I ever say I was making a bold statement? Saying there's 0% chance they take a QB in the first is still an absurd statement to make. Saying that a $11.6mil cap hit that can be spread out over 2 seasons to save 24 mil against the cap will prevent a team from cutting a QB that hasn't been to the playoffs in 5+ years (2010-2014 before you twist my words again) is even more absurd. The Jets just ate a $12 mil cap hit to get rid of the best corner in the league, so I don't see where you're getting this mentality from.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:07 PM    (permalink
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How is making a tongue in cheek comment like that being the bigger man? Did I ever say I was making a bold statement? Saying there's 0% chance they take a QB in the first is still an absurd statement to make. Saying that a $11.6mil cap hit that can be spread out over 2 seasons to save 24 mil against the cap will prevent a team from cutting a QB that hasn't been to the playoffs in 5+ years (2010-2014 before you twist my words again) is even more absurd. The Jets just ate a $12 mil cap hit to get rid of the best corner in the league, so I don't see where you're getting this mentality from.
Yeah, you weren't really bold at all. I got there there was really no backbone behind your statements.

0% they take a QB in Round 1 next year. That's bold. Deal with it.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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Wow.

This is his offseason. lol.

He drank too much on one of his offseason nights. Big freaking deal.

This slight hiccup of what outsiders have labeled should be his priority (accepting an invitation to be a 'counselor' at a high-celebrity and publicized camp) will have NOTHING to do with his evaluation, especially after an entire second season.

This is the product of one of the slowest sports weeks on the calendar and will at the VERY MOST elicit one question during his interviews - probably just to see how he deals with his buttons being pushed.

He's 20. Acting like a kid. Clearly he likes to go out and party. At age 20. He shouldn't be mature at this age.

So QB's, leaders of the team, and former Heisman winners shouldn't be held to different standards to you? Drinking, partying too hard and missing committments, etc is all fine because he's just 20 years old?
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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They should've given the Heisman to Te'o. Much less drama. lol.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, you weren't really bold at all. I got there there was really no backbone behind your statements.

0% they take a QB in Round 1 next year. That's bold. Deal with it.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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So QB's, leaders of the team, and former Heisman winners shouldn't be held to different standards to you? Drinking, partying too hard and missing committments, etc is all fine because he's just 20 years old?
Listen, I'm not a fan of Johnny Football Manziel as an NFL Prospect. But you're going to sit there and tell me that guys like Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisbuerger, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc. (Should I go on?) Didn't once go out partying at all or out on a consistent basis in their football offseason at ages 19-21? Seriously? Did you not go out in college? Those are pretty much the years when you're not in class, have some fun. Only have it once. I'm 24 going to be 25. When I was in college, ages 18-22, I was a bit irresponsible but was having fun. I changed after school because I knew college is the best years of your life and enjoy them. I'm now in my career 2 years and have the responsibility to know not to go out sunday through thursday nights and know my limits on the weekends to stay out of trouble legally.

Manziel is 20 years old. He's not doing anything wrong legally besides enjoying his youth. It'll be a problem if he's your franchise QB and he's out getting sloshed Saturday nights before a play off game the next game.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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He should still probably get off Twitter.
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:30 PM    (permalink
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Listen, I'm not a fan of Johnny Football Manziel as an NFL Prospect. But you're going to sit there and tell me that guys like Aaron Rodgers, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisbuerger, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc. (Should I go on?) Didn't once go out partying at all or out on a consistent basis in their football offseason at ages 19-21? Seriously? Did you not go out in college? Those are pretty much the years when you're not in class, have some fun. Only have it once. I'm 24 going to be 25. When I was in college, ages 18-22, I was a bit irresponsible but was having fun. I changed after school because I knew college is the best years of your life and enjoy them. I'm now in my career 2 years and have the responsibility to know not to go out sunday through thursday nights and know my limits on the weekends to stay out of trouble legally.

Manziel is 20 years old. He's not doing anything wrong legally besides enjoying his youth. It'll be a problem if he's your franchise QB and he's out getting sloshed Saturday nights before a play off game the next game.


I simply asked if QB's and Heisman winners should be held to higher standards, so asking "dude didn't you get hammered in College" really has nothing to do with the discussion at all. It could be all just a phase, or it could be a trend, I seem to remember Matt Leinart partying too hard when he was a Senior and was criticized for it just the same.

If you can say with certainty that once he gets a multi million dollar contract he'll grow up instantly then sure, assume that much. But we all know that a lot of people get their money and the fame takes over them, and if your a QB it's going to get magnified this isn't anything new.
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:42 PM    (permalink
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I'm completely downplaying his "commitment". He's partying in the offseason. Forget the Manning passing camp. It's not an important thing at all.

The only reason we know about it is because of the name Manning attached to it. He's a celebrity appearance there - nothing more. He's not going there to work on his game.

As for the "next year he'll be a leader of men thing", I do think some HEAVY growing up goes on between each year of college. I also trust he'll prepare himself for success by working his ass off. He knows the difference in responsibility. It's just happening so fast. Think of it this way - this is LAST summer. This is it. He will never have another summer for the rest of his life. He'll be a man with insane responsibilities to his work.

I do not think he should be held to a higher standard than a regular 20 year old, no. I think that's unfair.

It's all noise and that's it. When he does something really bad I'll condemn him for it. But Peyton covered for him, McCarron covered for him - nobody that matters cares - all they're telling him is "now you know you're in the spotlight - now you know WHY you have to be careful. The stupid media blows everything up because of who you are."

People have done MUCH worse and growing up is all about making mistakes. No one is perfect. Peyton's not, Brady's not. They've made mistakes too.

It's completely wrong to take away a young person's ability to correct mistakes they make at a young age. I don't care who he is. Especially if that mistake hurts no one.
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