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Old 07-18-2013, 12:22 AM    (permalink
niel89
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Fair or not, he is one of the faces of college football and he ****** up at a very well known event. He isn't just some 20 year old so he can't act like one. It comes with the territory of being famous. He should already know how to handle himself. Just because he isn't seriously shaping his game at the camp doesn't mean he has a right to blow it off. The Mannings are a classy bunch so they covered for him. He was probably asked to leave or just left unannounced and then they announced it was mutual.

This isn't a major character concern, but Manziel is acting like a child at 20 right now. Nothing he has said or done lately makes me want him to lead my team. He will probably mature but he is acting like a kid while he wants to be the man.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:43 AM    (permalink
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Fair or not, he is one of the faces of college football and he ****** up at a very well known event. He isn't just some 20 year old so he can't act like one. It comes with the territory of being famous. He should already know how to handle himself. Just because he isn't seriously shaping his game at the camp doesn't mean he has a right to blow it off. The Mannings are a classy bunch so they covered for him. He was probably asked to leave or just left unannounced and then they announced it was mutual.

This isn't a major character concern, but Manziel is acting like a child at 20 right now. Nothing he has said or done lately makes me want him to lead my team. He will probably mature but he is acting like a kid while he wants to be the man.
He is acting like a kid because he is a kid. He'll have to grow up real quick, but you can't take away his right to grow up. It's wrong.

Again, this is the last summer of his life. He chose to party. It costed him a celebrity appearance and got him in the news because of some bad luck. He made a mistake and now he's learned from it. All I see is a kid growing up.

If Manziel has issues, they'll be uncovered through interviews. But there will be an entire season of game film. This media-blow-up will be a DISTANT afterthought when the draft process starts.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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I'm more concerned about the story that Manziel shoved a grad assistant coach. Don't know the circumstances.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Manziel is 20 years old. He's not doing anything wrong legally besides enjoying his youth. It'll be a problem if he's your franchise QB and he's out getting sloshed Saturday nights before a play off game the next game.
Technically hes drinking underage, so yes hes technically breaking the law (even if its a stupid one most people break).

ok so it wasnt the night before a big game. but it wasnt like he went out and was late to his basket weaving class.

he was a counselor at a camp with the Manning brothers, basically professional QBing royalty, people very well respected and certainly not guys that other qbs would blow off for some partying.

either way, with a commitment early the next morning, johnny couldnt help himself. instead of just enjoying some night life and hitting the hay because he has things to do the next morning, he went out and enjoyed himself too much apparently.

i dont wanna hear 'oh hes 20, hes young blah blah' thats horse***. if you know you have a commitment the next morning you dont go out late the night before, thats common freaking sense. hes not just 20, hes stupid and arrogant, very much so. you can hear it in his voice during interviews the way he ducks questions and doesnt take responsability for his actions.

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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
He is acting like a kid because he is a kid. He'll have to grow up real quick, but you can't take away his right to grow up. It's wrong.

Again, this is the last summer of his life. He chose to party. It costed him a celebrity appearance and got him in the news because of some bad luck. He made a mistake and now he's learned from it. All I see is a kid growing up.

Bad luck? he did it to himself, he got himself hammered and hungover, please dont tell me you buy the 'my phone died' story. come on really? every college teacher hears that from students, and it almost always means 'i was very drunk last night and still a little this morning and accidentally hit cancel instead of snooze on my phone.' manziel brought this on himself, hes making excuses and so are you.

If Manziel has issues, they'll be uncovered through interviews. But there will be an entire season of game film. This media-blow-up will be a DISTANT afterthought when the draft process starts.
pro guys party all the time, even qbs, even SB winning qbs (rodgers and big ben, post rape ben too goes out to bars as well not a big deal really) so its not omgzz hiz lass zummer everzzz cause thats bull****.

and he is doing interviews right now, but hes dodging questions. why? because he knows there are tweets and **** out there from people who saw and drank with him that night, and if he denies it the media will crucify him even worse for it.

this will not be a distant memory around draft time for him, he will continue to make stupid decisions because thats what stupid people do.




EDIT:
I dont think its the end of the world, but to say 'eh he blew the mannings off kinda but no biggie' is absurd on many levels.
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Old 07-18-2013, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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I'm completely downplaying his "commitment". He's partying in the offseason. Forget the Manning passing camp. It's not an important thing at all.
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Well this is totally not true but you have a right to believe whatever you want to.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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I honestly don't give a crap, bc he's not going to be a good NFL quarterback anyway. It's wasting energy talking about him as far as I'm concerned.

I'm only interested in college players who can become NFL talents. He's not one of those guys.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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I honestly don't give a crap, bc he's not going to be a good NFL quarterback anyway. It's wasting energy talking about him as far as I'm concerned.

I'm only interested in college players who can become NFL talents. He's not one of those guys.
People dont need to get so bent out of shape about everything, i just dont get it
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:47 AM    (permalink
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People dont need to get so bent out of shape about everything, i just dont get it
The biggest problem I have with Manziel is that he's a spoiled rich kid who has played the "try living in my shoes" card. Life sucks when you've got it all.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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The biggest problem I have with Manziel is that he's a spoiled rich kid who has played the "try living in my shoes" card. Life sucks when you've got it all.
I used to get upset about that, but I learned it's just wasted energy. People like Manziel exist all over the world. It happens. It's unfair, it's ridiculous and all of the other adjectives, but it's just how the world is.

One thing I learned is, their life is their life, my life is my life. Not gonna waste energy on theirs.
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Old 07-18-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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The biggest problem I have with Manziel is that he's a spoiled rich kid who has played the "try living in my shoes" card. Life sucks when you've got it all.
I dont mind his personality, i actually hate fake ass athletes that are just politically correct and say all the right things.

I do not think hes going to be a good pro, especially as a redshirt sophomore declare. I cannot think of one redshirt sophomore QB that ever declared, and if there was some i doubt they did much....plus hes undersized and erratic. Hell theres not even that many Junior QBs who declare and are very successful (there obviously are, but imo experience in college goes a long way)

People dont seem to get that a college QB can be great, like completely amazing and still be a nobody in the pros despite it happening over and over and over again. They turn a college superstar into a media ***** and expect him to be a great pro and then they flop. Johnny football is another tebow but people hate him for the totally opposite reasons lol
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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The biggest problem I have with Manziel is that he's a spoiled rich kid who has played the "try living in my shoes" card. Life sucks when you've got it all.
yeah must be real hard to go party all over the place all the time at twenty with a seemingly bottomless wallet. that pissed me off like crazy, i almost got a twitter account just to offer to switch spots with him and help him out. he can take it easy for the next year and do some of my super fun military stuff (cause government run stuff is always super easy and fun!), and ill go play football and be a god to a ton of smoking hot southern chicks.

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People dont need to get so bent out of shape about everything, i just dont get it
i have to. i hate the excuses and poor arguments for a kid who deserves no ones sympathy. hes screwed up a bunch of little things here and there, no biggie it happens, but he wont own any of his mistakes. i hate people like that, hes a spoiled arrogant little ****.

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he's not going to be a good NFL quarterback anyway.
quoted because in the end its the truth so he really doesnt matter in a few years. fun to watch in college but nothing he does as of now translates to pro success.
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Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.

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Old 07-18-2013, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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I wouldnt say he no shot, but i find it funny people look at him as a first round pick. He has an uphill battle to be a good pro
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

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Old 07-18-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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He acts like a midget Ryan Leaf. Good luck with that one.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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Well this is totally not true but you have a right to believe whatever you want to.
So you think the Manning passing camp is a place for college QBs to improve their game?

No. They are "counselors" for little kids and high school kids. Mort had an anecdote about Manziel's absence and he explained that there were kids upset he wasn't there because he's a celebrity.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Technically hes drinking underage, so yes hes technically breaking the law (even if its a stupid one most people break).

ok so it wasnt the night before a big game. but it wasnt like he went out and was late to his basket weaving class.

he was a counselor at a camp with the Manning brothers, basically professional QBing royalty, people very well respected and certainly not guys that other qbs would blow off for some partying.

either way, with a commitment early the next morning, johnny couldnt help himself. instead of just enjoying some night life and hitting the hay because he has things to do the next morning, he went out and enjoyed himself too much apparently.

i dont wanna hear 'oh hes 20, hes young blah blah' thats horse***. if you know you have a commitment the next morning you dont go out late the night before, thats common freaking sense. hes not just 20, hes stupid and arrogant, very much so. you can hear it in his voice during interviews the way he ducks questions and doesnt take responsability for his actions.



pro guys party all the time, even qbs, even SB winning qbs (rodgers and big ben, post rape ben too goes out to bars as well not a big deal really) so its not omgzz hiz lass zummer everzzz cause thats bull****.

and he is doing interviews right now, but hes dodging questions. why? because he knows there are tweets and **** out there from people who saw and drank with him that night, and if he denies it the media will crucify him even worse for it.

this will not be a distant memory around draft time for him, he will continue to make stupid decisions because thats what stupid people do.




EDIT:
I dont think its the end of the world, but to say 'eh he blew the mannings off kinda but no biggie' is absurd on many levels.
1) Everybody knows the kid. Everybody knows him. Now we know for sure he's stupid. It's really comical.

2) He's dodging the drinking question because there are legal ramifications. THAT would have been stupid. He's handled the situation fine. You can't go on national TV and admit to breaking the law. lol. This media story will blow over once the season starts. Had he admitted "I was drunk", it would have caused a HUGE shitstorm. ESPN wishes their stupid reporter got that answer. They would've ran wild with that.

3) If he continues to make mistakes, and I've always said this was a mistake - just that it's being judged unfairly - then that's as whole different story.

I'm just going to stop arguing this.

It's an excuse to talk about ANYTHING other than actual football. It's ridiculous. ESPN is molding the sports world and fans are eating it up. This shouldn't be a conversation. There is actual football to talk about. That's what GMs care about - ******* FOOTBALL. Not whether a kid got too drunk one night. That's all that happened here. Have you ever made a mistake? "Well I'm not a public figure." So ******* what. Let me know when he rapes or kills someone or does anythign that actually impacts his game or teammates. This is 100% media BS. Stop letting ESPN dictate where our sports conversations go.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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So you think the Manning passing camp is a place for college QBs to improve their game?

No. (Johnny Manziel was a) "counselor" for little kids and high school kids. Mort had an anecdote about Manziel's absence and he explained that there were kids upset he wasn't there because he's a celebrity.
K, hold on - this doesn't bother you? This doesn't tell you anything about his character? You have no problem with a guy who bails on little kids? You're saying it's irrelevant just because it wasn't training for Manziel's own game. What's making you such an apologist for him?
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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K, hold on - this doesn't bother you? This doesn't tell you anything about his character? You have no problem with a guy who bails on little kids? You're saying it's irrelevant just because it wasn't training for Manziel's own game. What's making you such an apologist for him?
See this is the thing. I'm judging this one incident. That's it. To me, it's not a big deal at all. People are always so quick to create some generalized narrative based on an anecdote. This was ONE offseason night in an entire life of a kid and he's being judged based on this one event. That's wrong.

This doesn't define him. He got too drunk one night. He got too drunk ONE NIGHT and he did it on a night that the whole world would find out about it. That's what we're reacting to. I'm judging this story for what it is. I'm not making any generalizations about who he is based on this one story.

I'm an apologist for his right to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes as he grows up.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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1) Everybody knows the kid. Everybody knows him. Now we know for sure he's stupid. It's really comical.

should we be impressed by what hes shown so far then? hes made a bunch of stupid immature public mistakes and been a baller on the college football field. so from what i see in the pattern of his recent behavior is A) hes a boss of a college football player and B) hes consistently made stupid decisions off the field to bring himself negative attention. so maybe i dont 'know for sure' but everything i can infer from his actions says hes kinda dbag.

2) He's dodging the drinking question because there are legal ramifications. THAT would have been stupid. He's handled the situation fine.

FALSE. He could have manned up and said 'i was out having fun with some friends and stayed longer than i should have and it led me to over sleep. it was immature on my part to not call it a night and go to bed earlier knowing full well i had things to do in the am.' Thats taking responsability for your actions and admitting you made a mistake while not implicating yourself in anything legally. instead he decided to blame his phone dying.

3) If he continues to make mistakes, and I've always said this was a mistake - just that it's being judged unfairly - then that's as whole different story.

When is the line crossed though? hes been in the news negatively quite a bit for partying heavily and saying stupid things. and while some of it is stupid crap cause thats what the news does, this consant stuff is becoming a trend. when is it no longer just a mistakes but a pattern of behavior and showing who he is?

I'm just going to stop arguing this.

It's an excuse to talk about ANYTHING other than actual football. It's ridiculous. ESPN is molding the sports world and fans are eating it up. This shouldn't be a conversation. There is actual football to talk about. That's what GMs care about - ******* FOOTBALL. Not whether a kid got too drunk one night. That's all that happened here. Have you ever made a mistake? "Well I'm not a public figure." So ******* what. Let me know when he rapes or kills someone or does anythign that actually impacts his game or teammates. This is 100% media BS. Stop letting ESPN dictate where our sports conversations go.
stop going off about espn, you sound absurd. i dont care that he was out drinking, or that espn apparently cares or whatever. i do think hes an arrogant immature guy and cant for the life of me understand why youre defending him as a person. i think he screwed up at the manning camp and rather than own up to it hes coming up with very weak excuses and people are eating it up.

to move away from this, what do you think of him as an nfl prospect? strictly based on talent i think hes not even close to an nfl qb based on what weve seen. good college qb but thats all from what ive seen so far.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Whoever called him a midget Ryan Leaf in here is spot on. Forget all his physical limitations, his attitude alone is reason enough to believe he'll fail in the NFL.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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I personally seriously question if Manziel even wants to be an NFL quarterback. If he has no intention of doing so, then who cares, let the kid live his life.

He's set for life no matter what, which is why he behaves the way he does. Maybe football isn't as important to him as it is to everyone else. Did we ever consider that possibility?

Bc contrary to popular belief, football isn't life for everybody.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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stop going off about espn, you sound absurd. i dont care that he was out drinking, or that espn apparently cares or whatever. i do think hes an arrogant immature guy and cant for the life of me understand why youre defending him as a person. i think he screwed up at the manning camp and rather than own up to it hes coming up with very weak excuses and people are eating it up.

to move away from this, what do you think of him as an nfl prospect? strictly based on talent i think hes not even close to an nfl qb based on what weve seen. good college qb but thats all from what ive seen so far.
HE SHOULD BE. HE JUST WON THE HEISMAN TROPHY AND HE'S 20! There isn't anything but arrogance with these all-world athletes. These guys aren't humble - that's part of what makes them great. They hate to lose and they know they are the best and that confidence allows them to do what they do. And when you mix being 20 years old with that, you get cockiness and a kid like this.

I'm not defending him as a person. I'm defending the right for a 20 year old, ANY 20 year old to make THIS particular mistake. This one thing that everyone is talking about. Getting too drunk and missing something in the morning. That's what I'm talking about.

As a football player, I love his game.

+ People don't realize how accurate he is.
+ People don't realize how good a deep ball he throws in terms of touch.
? I don't know about his arm strength. It's obviously good enough for the SEC but he might be Andy Dalton. I didn't notice anything last year that was a red flag but I've heard some respected people pop this question. And his throws outside the numbers were usually either deep balls or short routes. I'll be paying close attention to the zip he puts on his throws this season.
? His footwork needs polish.

Some of the comparisons are completely asinine. Ty Detmer, Chase Daniel. There's a reason this kid just shattered SEC records. He's a top college passer. Notice I haven't even mentioned the mobility because the last game I saw him play was against OU and it was ******* masterful. Dropping dimes all over the place.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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I personally seriously question if Manziel even wants to be an NFL quarterback. If he has no intention of doing so, then who cares, let the kid live his life.

He's set for life no matter what, which is why he behaves the way he does. Maybe football isn't as important to him as it is to everyone else. Did we ever consider that possibility?

Bc contrary to popular belief, football isn't life for everybody.
This is what I'm talking about. ESPN has made you infer that this kid doesn't want to play football.

I can't even...

Do you know how much ******* work he must have put in to do what he did last season? In order to do this you need to have an almost unhealthy drive off the field.

RIGHT NOW is his FINAL offseason/summer of his life. I don't blame him for going out and drinking.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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This is what I'm talking about. ESPN has made you infer that this kid doesn't want to play football.

I can't even...

Do you know how much ******* work he must have put in to do what he did last season? In order to do this you need to have an almost unhealthy drive off the field.

RIGHT NOW is his FINAL offseason/summer of his life. I don't blame him for going out and drinking.
Then he's a moron for hurting his own draft stock. He's living the Ryan Leaf lifestyle. Cool. That's not exactly conducive to being a successful pro.
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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HE SHOULD BE. HE JUST WON THE HEISMAN TROPHY AND HE'S 20! There isn't anything but arrogance with these all-world athletes. These guys aren't humble - that's part of what makes them great. They hate to lose and they know they are the best and that confidence allows them to do what they do. And when you mix being 20 years old with that, you get cockiness and a kid like this.

I'm not defending him as a person. I'm defending the right for a 20 year old, ANY 20 year old to make THIS particular mistake. This one thing that everyone is talking about. Getting too drunk and missing something in the morning. That's what I'm talking about.

ok i see what youre saying, kinda arguing different stuff but ill drop it, lets move on to football stuff, its more fun.

As a football player, I love his game. and were probably gunna keep fighting haha

+ People don't realize how accurate he is.
+ People don't realize how good a deep ball he throws in terms of touch.
? I don't know about his arm strength. It's obviously good enough for the SEC but he might be Andy Dalton. I didn't notice anything last year that was a red flag but I've heard some respected people pop this question. And his throws outside the numbers were usually either deep balls or short routes. I'll be paying close attention to the zip he puts on his throws this season.
? His footwork needs polish.

Some of the comparisons are completely asinine. Ty Detmer, Chase Daniel. There's a reason this kid just shattered SEC records. He's a top college passer. Notice I haven't even mentioned the mobility because the last game I saw him play was against OU and it was ******* masterful. Dropping dimes all over the place.
the passing game he plays in is based largely on mike leach's passing attack, but added more spread run plays in to help create more balance.

its incredibly simplified, especially last year with a lot of one and run 'reads.' its also effective in getting wr big windows to catch and run. but it definitely masks deficiencies very well with QBs.

manziel has a mediocre arm. its not atrocious as some will have you believe. but if he tried to make a stick throw up the seam in cover 3 or in honey holes outside in cover 2 that thing is getting picked. he is accurate deep but his footwork is holding him back on the shorter routes. so its this for me:

+ elusive and can make plays when it breaks down consistently
+ good at dropping it in the bucket, easily his best throw

? zip
? reads, has not had to show that ability at all
? footwork/short-mid accuracy
? how will he do without all that time to pass that he had last year?
? small


he has weaknesses that are difficult to overcome when combined imo


EDIT:
and stop saying its his last summer. its not. as i said, big ben (post rape) and arod have been seen out at bars having a good time. and they both have rings so its not like he'd have to give it up to be great.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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Who's character is more concerning? Manziel or Te'o?
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