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Old 07-18-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Who's character is more concerning? Manziel or Te'o?
as far as character concerns go they are both pussies compared to guys like pacman, hell even newton was way more concerning
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Then he's a moron for hurting his own draft stock. He's living the Ryan Leaf lifestyle. Cool. That's not exactly conducive to being a successful pro.
Or the Dan Marino/Brett Favre lifestyle.

God I can't wait until actual football starts so we don't need to talk about stupid things like this.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Or the Dan Marino/Brett Favre lifestyle.

God I can't wait until actual football starts so we don't need to talk about stupid things like this.
Quarterbacks are held to a higher standard now. Peyton Manning changed the way we view quarterbacks and how they should carry themselves. Nowadays if you don't carry that work ethic, desire, commitment or professionalism you're going to get killed for it.

It's just how it is now. Manziel has to be smarter than that.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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See this is the thing. I'm judging this one incident. That's it. To me, it's not a big deal at all. People are always so quick to create some generalized narrative based on an anecdote. This was ONE offseason night in an entire life of a kid and he's being judged based on this one event. That's wrong.

This doesn't define him. He got too drunk one night. He got too drunk ONE NIGHT and he did it on a night that the whole world would find out about it. That's what we're reacting to. I'm judging this story for what it is. I'm not making any generalizations about who he is based on this one story.

I'm an apologist for his right to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes as he grows up.
He's already got a reputation as a part boy. Everybody had already heard about it. So it wasn't ONE NIGHT that everyone is judging him for - people are criticizing him because he apparently couldn't stay sober for ONE NIGHT when he had a bunch of little kids and two of the best quarterbacks in the NFL anticipating his presence the next day. It's a complete lack of respect towards the Mannings and disregard for his obligations. I don't care if he's partying, but I care if he's blowing off his appointments so he can stay out drinking. That's a bad sign.

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HE SHOULD BE. HE JUST WON THE HEISMAN TROPHY AND HE'S 20! There isn't anything but arrogance with these all-world athletes. These guys aren't humble - that's part of what makes them great. They hate to lose and they know they are the best and that confidence allows them to do what they do. And when you mix being 20 years old with that, you get cockiness and a kid like this.
This isn't supreme confidence on the field, this is some entitled yolo ****.


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As a football player, I love his game.
I actually do, too.

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+ People don't realize how accurate he is.
+ People don't realize how good a deep ball he throws in terms of touch.
? I don't know about his arm strength. It's obviously good enough for the SEC but he might be Andy Dalton. I didn't notice anything last year that was a red flag but I've heard some respected people pop this question. And his throws outside the numbers were usually either deep balls or short routes. I'll be paying close attention to the zip he puts on his throws this season.
? His footwork needs polish.
His footwork needs a little discipline, but he has amazing feet. I also tend to notice that his accuracy stays very good when he's throwing off-balance. If you want to call him Andy Dalton with 4.40-ish speed and extreme quickness, I'm calling that a potential no.1-overall pick. But incidents like this show a lack of judgement. The night that got him kicked out of the Manning camp was only one night, correct. But there's always been partying photos (underage, not being discreet), there's the getting in fights, there's the tweets about how no one understands him and how he can't wait to leave A&M. It adds up. If he's talking about leaving school after next year, I'm wondering how much he's going to mature. A lot of people are saying that teams will make their evaluations off of personal interviews, and I think that's right. If I'm a GM, though, he's now going to have to put in a little more effort than other prospects to convince me that he's going to get the right amount of sleep, get his work done, and learn the playbook. I'd rather pick a prospect that I know is responsible than one who's just promising he will be after he gets to the NFL. Know what I mean? So as much as I like Manziel's play, I'm not even sure he's my no. 2 QB for next year. I'm going to have to get deeper into the tape of the other eligible players for sure, but he's definitely hurting his stock in my eyes, and I'm sure in the eyes of other teams despite obvious natural talent for the game.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
as far as character concerns go they are both pussies compared to guys like pacman, hell even newton was way more concerning
You know, I almost compared him to Newton in my last post, but didn't. But since you bring him up, I will - Newton was less concerning. There was drama around him, but it wasn't ever about how seriously he took football. He wants all the attention, and relishes the pressure. I also think he Newton was out getting drunk and missed Manning's camp people would've been going absolutely berserk. Manziel's getting the tsk tsk treatment; there would've been talking heads asking if teams were taking Newton off their boards.

But - Newton put some distance between his early college days and straightened himself out before the draft. That's what I hope to see with Manziel. I really don't want to hear any more of this stuff. The NFL is so hard to play in now, it doesn't matter how many boozing old-timers you name off; they might not have been able to hack it in today's game with those habits. Name another QB in today's league who's a party animal. You basically get Roethlisberger (who's supposedly reformed after that didn't go too well), Mark Sanchez and Matt Leinart. That's not the best company to be associated with as a prospect.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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You know, I almost compared him to Newton in my last post, but didn't. But since you bring him up, I will - Newton was less concerning. There was drama around him, but it wasn't ever about how seriously he took football. He wants all the attention, and relishes the pressure. I also think he Newton was out getting drunk and missed Manning's camp people would've been going absolutely berserk. Manziel's getting the tsk tsk treatment; there would've been talking heads asking if teams were taking Newton off their boards.

But - Newton put some distance between his early college days and straightened himself out before the draft. That's what I hope to see with Manziel. I really don't want to hear any more of this stuff. The NFL is so hard to play in now, it doesn't matter how many boozing old-timers you name off; they might not have been able to hack it in today's game with those habits. Name another QB in today's league who's a party animal. You basically get Roethlisberger (who's supposedly reformed after that didn't go too well), Mark Sanchez and Matt Leinart. That's not the best company to be associated with as a prospect.
Kaepernick parties hard. And naked.

I'm pretty sure Stafford does too.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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I'm not going to comment on his playing ability. I haven't seen much of him, so I am not really qualified. But when it comes to his character concerns, this is my take.

I think this is a huge concern. If I were a GM, I would be concerned anyway. The Manning Camp is a huge opportunity. He could go there, make a great showing, make a difference in the lives of kids who will be watching football throughout his entire career (however long that may be), and come away from it with a sense of gratitude and growth as a player, as well as a person. Or he could do what he did, which is to **** the whole thing off, make a hugely irresponsible decision, embarrass the Manning family, and let down a whole bunch of kids who looked up to him. The opinion those kids and their families hold of him will likely never change. Never mind the fact that he absolutely blew the chance to learn and glean extensive knowledge from 3 of the best QB's to ever play the game.

If I'm a GM, you bet I'm alarmed. This sends up red flags everywhere. It tells me that this kid is selfish and irresponsible. It tells me that he takes his gift for granted and puts himself first. More than anything, it tells me that he will not necessarily grab an opportunity when it presents itself, because he carries himself with arrogance and entitlement. That isn't the guy I want leading my team, even if he is extremely gifted. I want the guy who goes to the Manning Camp and spends the entire day making those kids feel like they are the most important people in the whole world, and then spends the evening asking the Manning trio every question he can think of.

So, while you can say that what he did was "no big deal" and "he didn't really do anything wrong," it did speak volumes to me as far as what kind of a person you are going to get when you bring him into your locker room.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Kaepernick parties hard. And naked.

I'm pretty sure Stafford does too.
Was just gonna mention stafford.

They all party, they all should party, they play a childs game and make millions of dollars
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I've never been a huge fan of Stafford, despite 2011's stats. Regardless. I really don't care that he parties; I care that he seems to lack perspective and discretion, and blew off an event. He should have known that bailing on the Manning camp would be a big deal in the press, and the fact that either A) he didn't realize that, or B) didn't care both serve as confirmation that he lacks perspective and/or discretion. They're reasons to lower his stock. I'm not declaring I would't draft him or that he's hopeless or that a 20 year-old should "act a man"; I just hope he gets it together and we don't have to keep having this conversation about him.
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Old 07-18-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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There is also a big difference between confidence and arrogance. Peyton, Luck, Brees, RG3 are all guys who are strong confident leaders who aren't arrogant little twats like Manziel.

It's not one incidence. There is a pattern developing around him. He missed multiple parts the camp not just one day. The Manning camp is basically a meet and greet for QB prospect with a legendary NFL family and a quick peek at up coming prospects. Maziel said that it wasn't worth his time or effort to be there. RG3 or Luck would never act like that.

Some people look at thier situation and say what are my responisiblites with this power and what are my obligations. Others look at their power and wonder what can they get away with.

Why would it be okay for a 20 year old to do this? At 20 I absolutely understood my major responsibilities and obligations. Being 20 is no excuse for him being a dick.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys probably won't, but if there is a QB who falls who they love they absolutely should think about spending a 1st or 2nd. Romo's contract doesn't completely lock them in as much as it looks and there is room to upgrade the QB position at a backup or starter role. There is only maybe a ten percent chance they would actually draft a QB early, but they should consider it. Romo's play if far from untouchable. A drafted QB with a couple year to develop could be a very appealing option in 3 years if Romo doesn't find more playoff success.
I think if this was the same situation with another team (say for instance we were talking about the Chargers and Philip Rivers) then drafting a QB high in the next couple of years would be a more reasonable likelihood. But we are talking about the Cowboys here. Jerry Jones did not just give Romo a huge deal so he could then turn around and draft a new QB of the future. To do such would be perceived by Jones as an admittance that he made a mistake in giving Romo the big contract, even if it were a great move for the team. Jones is too proud to ever admit such a mistake. Make no mistake, Romo is the QB of the Cowboys for the next several years, even if a fantastic prospect were to land in their laps.
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I've never been a huge fan of Stafford, despite 2011's stats. Regardless. I really don't care that he parties; I care that he seems to lack perspective and discretion, and blew off an event. He should have known that bailing on the Manning camp would be a big deal in the press, and the fact that either A) he didn't realize that, or B) didn't care both serve as confirmation that he lacks perspective and/or discretion. They're reasons to lower his stock. I'm not declaring I would't draft him or that he's hopeless or that a 20 year-old should "act a man"; I just hope he gets it together and we don't have to keep having this conversation about him.
Bravo!!!!!!!
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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There is also a big difference between confidence and arrogance. Peyton, Luck, Brees, RG3 are all guys who are strong confident leaders who aren't arrogant little twats like Manziel.

It's not one incidence. There is a pattern developing around him. He missed multiple parts the camp not just one day. The Manning camp is basically a meet and greet for QB prospect with a legendary NFL family and a quick peek at up coming prospects. Maziel said that it wasn't worth his time or effort to be there. RG3 or Luck would never act like that.

Some people look at thier situation and say what are my responisiblites with this power and what are my obligations. Others look at their power and wonder what can they get away with.

Why would it be okay for a 20 year old to do this? At 20 I absolutely understood my major responsibilities and obligations. Being 20 is no excuse for him being a dick.
Roethlisberger, Rivers, Cutler, Newton are all pretty arrogant, arrogance only is a huge deal if you play as badly as Blame Gabbert
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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I see all these fans criticizing Jonny Manziel for partying at 20 and saying it's "against the law". Question to all of you: When you were underrage, how many drank? How many partied hard? I can tell you I did. However, as I got older, more towards graduation, I matured and became more responsible each year.

The kid is 20 years old for heaven's sakes. My brother is a prime example. I watched him at 20, partied ridiculously hard, said he would do stupid stuff and drank 4 times a week in college. He's 22 now. What does he do? He;ll have afew beers on the weekends after work.

A lot of growing up goes on as you progress. He's 20. Let him live his young yeears because they are fun.,
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Old 07-18-2013, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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There is a difference between partying and blowing of your obligations because of partying. No one is really calling him out for drinking at 20. That comes with the territory of being in college. This camp was a easy test for a prospect and Manziel blew it off. It's like telling a professor that you were too drunk to write an essay but its okay because you're 20. He is face of college football so he needs to handle his ****. If he didn't want to be famous then don't take the huge media tours.
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Old 07-18-2013, 11:36 PM    (permalink
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I don't see Manziel being successful at all in the NFL and I am confident enough in that that I will be hunting out possible wagers to cash in on that opinion.

I also suspect he'll have more bad moments this season than last, for sure. We're seeing how he deals with adversity off the field. Not impressive.

We'll also see how he deals with adversity on the field......
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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i honestly think he could be a candidate to win back to back heismans....just like thought tebow could, but even if he does.....hes not going to be a good pro.hes a very exciting college player though
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Brett Favre off the field was nearly the exact same dude at Southern Mississippi.

Screwing up the Manning Camp just isn't a big enough sample size to make definitive declarations about Manziel's character or NFL future.

I do know that if Johnny Football has the same season this year that he had in 2012, some NFL team is going to be willing to work through any maturity issues he might have and try to develop him into an NFL starter.

You can't teach confidence and ego, which ALL the best QBs have.
But you can learn humility.

I suspect this is the last time we hear anything remotely negative about Manziel off the field for the rest of the year.
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Old 07-19-2013, 03:18 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
Brett Favre off the field was nearly the exact same dude at Southern Mississippi.

Screwing up the Manning Camp just isn't a big enough sample size to make definitive declarations about Manziel's character or NFL future.

I do know that if Johnny Football has the same season this year that he had in 2012, some NFL team is going to be willing to work through any maturity issues he might have and try to develop him into an NFL starter.

You can't teach confidence and ego, which ALL the best QBs have.
But you can learn humility.

I suspect this is the last time we hear anything remotely negative about Manziel off the field for the rest of the year
.
Not unless they shut off his Twitter feed, and he stops drinking. Both appear to be unlikely(haven't checked the news so I'm not sure if he stated he was going to kill either of those). If he hasn't said those things then how can you make such a prediction, because twitter and alcohol seem to be his two biggest issues atm.

Outside of that, I can see a gm taking him as a late second round to mid round pick. Too many questions with his game, and an extremely small sample size. Personally, I don't think he is going to get away with a lot of what he does against NFL defenses. They are going to make him sit back and pass much more often and frankley, I am not sure he has an NFL arm, or IQ. Can he read an NFL defense? I don't know.

I know you love running QB's, but I do not. They end up with a lot of durability issues, they have used their athletiscm so much that a lot never bother to read a defense or learn some of the other aspects that QBing takes because they have have always been able to beat people with their legs. It gives them serious problems in the playoffs, when they have to make a read or adjust to defenses, and they seem to fail a lot. Pocket passers are still winning rings and staying healthy.

Much rather have one of them than someone like JM. He has much more questions with his ability to throw, than some of the other running QB's that has come out as of late as well. Not buying him as a Wilson, RG3, or KP. He's more of a Troy Smith to me.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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I see all these fans criticizing Jonny Manziel for partying at 20 and saying it's "against the law". Question to all of you: When you were underrage, how many drank? How many partied hard? I can tell you I did. However, as I got older, more towards graduation, I matured and became more responsible each year.

The kid is 20 years old for heaven's sakes. My brother is a prime example. I watched him at 20, partied ridiculously hard, said he would do stupid stuff and drank 4 times a week in college. He's 22 now. What does he do? He;ll have afew beers on the weekends after work.

A lot of growing up goes on as you progress. He's 20. Let him live his young yeears because they are fun.,

The problem with you is you keep trying to make Johnny Manziel out to be a regular person. Not sure what planet you've been living on but the QB of a major program and a Heisman winner can't act the same way a regular College kid can, those are the facts. Just like people can't compare their regular jobs with NFL jobs and so forth. No one cares what we, your brother, or you would do at 20 in College because none of us were a QB for a major College power house.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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ESPN is getting carried away now: http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ty-report-says


Must have been a slow week?
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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ESPN is getting carried away now: http://espn.go.com/college-football/...ty-report-says


Must have been a slow week?
Couple things, if this was A.J. McCarron getting kicked out of an Auburn frat party, it would be news. So that isn't surprising. But I guess the better question is why he was going to a UT Frat party in the first place, being the QB of A&M everyone knows no good can come from that idea.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:15 PM    (permalink
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Couple things, if this was A.J. McCarron getting kicked out of an Auburn frat party, it would be news. So that isn't surprising. But I guess the better question is why he was going to a UT Frat party in the first place, being the QB of A&M everyone knows no good can come from that idea.
ESPN is trying to give Manziel the Tebow treatment. Building him up in college making money off him before tearing him apart in the pros. That said he really needs to just make better decisions. I am really intrigued by him as a prospect but this **** does nothing but hurt him in the eyes of NFL talent evaluators.
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Old 07-28-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Couple things, if this was A.J. McCarron getting kicked out of an Auburn frat party, it would be news.
And we know this because.....? Just think about what you're saying and why would this be news for anybody? So because he went to a party that people didn't want him at, it's headline news? That seems weird to me.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 07-28-2013, 04:19 PM    (permalink
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And we know this because.....? Just think about what you're saying and why would this be news for anybody? So because he went to a party that people didn't want him at, it's headline news? That seems weird to me.
Back in 2004 when Wyatt Sexton went to a UF game it was news to ESPN. This isn't unique. Either way it doesn't change the fact it was an inherently stupid idea.
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