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Old 01-01-2014, 07:01 PM    (permalink
Cigaro
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Originally Posted by badgerbacker View Post
What was the point of your original post?

No, Manziel isn't anywhere close to Mathieu, but I was just trying to show that pot users aren't simply dismissed. The issue with him wasn't that he used pot, it's the problems it caused which lead to him being dismissed from the team. Just like it isn't an issue that Manziel drinks, but it is that it's causing distractions and making him look bad.

I guarantee if you could somehow rewind time and replace his drinking episodes with smoking pot and the same outcomes he would be judged A LOT more harshly because it is illegal, like you said.
No, I'm pretty sure it was simply that he used pot. A lot. I don't think Mathieu was ever arrested or suspended for anything other than possession/consumption of marijuana.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:06 PM    (permalink
badgerbacker
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No, I'm pretty sure it was simply that he used pot. A lot. I don't think Mathieu was ever arrested or suspended for anything other than possession/consumption of marijuana.
Ok, then even more to my point. Pot usage clearly isn't given a pass by everybody.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
No, I'm pretty sure it was simply that he used pot. A lot. I don't think Mathieu was ever arrested or suspended for anything other than possession/consumption of marijuana.
Rumor was he was dealing the hard stuff.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 01-01-2014, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MassNole View Post
Manziel is much closer to Tebow than Wilson as an NFL prospect. It is an apt comparison.
No way. He's got a better arm, way faster release, is much quicker and elusive, is more accurate, and goes through progressions. Tebow was also fairly risk-averse. Manziel is like a hyperactive Russell Wilson who is less cautious and careful with the football and also makes more "what did he just do?" plays.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Nobody else sees Vick?
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Nobody else sees Vick?
No, Vick relied solely on his ridiculous athleticism.

Manziel relies on magic.
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Old 01-01-2014, 07:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Nastradamus View Post
Nobody else sees Vick?
Vick had a much stronger and less accurate arm. He was also faster. They're similar in their height and elusiveness, but I think there are better comparisons than Vick for Manziel, like Russell Wilson and Fran Tarkenton. I think Manziel is a more dangerous runner than either of those two, but Vick was like an elite running back who also had a really strong arm, and Manziel's not like that.

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No, Vick relied solely on his ridiculous athleticism.

Manziel relies on magic.
^ in short.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
Vick had a much stronger and less accurate arm. He was also faster. They're similar in their height and elusiveness, but I think there are better comparisons than Vick for Manziel, like Russell Wilson and Fran Tarkenton. I think Manziel is a more dangerous runner than either of those two, but Vick was like an elite running back who also had a really strong arm, and Manziel's not like that.



^ in short.
Can't say I agree. Vick does have a stronger arm, but no two players are perfect clones. I definitely think he's closer to Vick than Wilson. I don't see much similarity between him and RW. Both he and VIck are truly dynamic and special as runners, short and erratic as passers. Vick has plenty of issues, but you don't start in the NFL for that long if you are a RB with a strong arm. He's not Denard Robinson.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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They're going to follow the exact same career trajectory. Maybe one season of success, then Manziel is done. Plus they both attract a bloody circus, and are much better college QB's than pro QB's.
okay, I disagree, but if you're right it will be for completely different reasons than it was for Tebow, so it doesn't make the comparison make any more sense.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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:
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Can't say I agree. Vick does have a stronger arm, but no two players are perfect clones. I definitely think he's closer to Vick than Wilson. I don't see much similarity between him and RW. Both he and VIck are truly dynamic and special as runners, short and erratic as passers. Vick has plenty of issues, but you don't start in the NFL for that long if you are a RB with a strong arm. He's not Denard Robinson.
I see where he's like Vick. RW relies on his athleticism to buy time whereas Vick and Manziel are more likely to dash. I also believe Vick left after his redshirt sophomore season while Wilson had oodles of experiences for two colleges.

I see where other people don't feel it though. Vicks straight line speed was, IMO, clearly better than Manziels. Vick was a more powerful runner as well. IMO Manziel is much more elusive, and has some of the best balance and awareness I've seen. Vicks arm strength is clearly superior. Being Right handed is a huge difference to me, though most don't care about that.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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A few quotes from former scouts :

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...se-quarterback

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...s-nfl-prospect

Gil Brandt says the top 2 QB's in the draft are Bridgewater and Manziel.
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Old 01-01-2014, 10:29 PM    (permalink
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A few quotes from former scouts :

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...se-quarterback

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...s-nfl-prospect

Gil Brandt says the top 2 QB's in the draft are Bridgewater and Manziel.
Man, you've got to stop relying on nfl.com as your main source for this stuff. They've got awful content on all their media platforms, and it's really not that hard to find better sites.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:15 AM    (permalink
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lol at MassNole indicating Manziel is like Tebow.

Anyways, I used to hate on Manziel, but now I honestly think he could be something special. He's got that gunslinger mentality, which could be great, or horrible. With the right team I think he could really flourish and dominate.
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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Man, you've got to stop relying on nfl.com as your main source for this stuff. They've got awful content on all their media platforms, and it's really not that hard to find better sites.
Well, I'll continue to reference them, they are all ex pro scouts and have serious connections inside pro football with other scouts and GM's. I never would say their opinions are the final word because their track record simply isn't good enough yet, but in a draft room, each scout has his opinions and it is usually up to the GM to sort them out and reach a final decision based on his own observations combined with what his scouts feed him.

You tell me who your references are that have been paid by professional teams to scout for them and I'll gladly add them to my reference list. Seems a bit strange to me for you to say NFL.com is totally unreliable, why would NFL.com with all its contacts within pro football be a totally unreliable site. I think you need to re-evaluate your reference points.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'll continue to reference them, they are all ex pro scouts and have serious connections inside pro football with other scouts and GM's. I never would say their opinions are the final word because their track record simply isn't good enough yet, but in a draft room, each scout has his opinions and it is usually up to the GM to sort them out and reach a final decision based on his own observations combined with what his scouts feed him.

You tell me who your references are that have been paid by professional teams to scout for them and I'll gladly add them to my reference list. Seems a bit strange to me for you to say NFL.com is totally unreliable, why would NFL.com with all its contacts within pro football be a totally unreliable site. I think you need to re-evaluate your reference points.
nfl.com is in the business of making money, like most sites. That's why we see many articles about AJ McCarron everywhere and few about Brett Smith, roughly graded the same, because McCarron is a household name and that gets clicks while Wyoming QBs aren't exactly traffic drivers.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 01-03-2014, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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Alright, I'm going to give as much of an unbiased thought on this as possible.

Johnny Manziel CAN be a successful NFL quarterback, IF he can change his playstyle. He's too small to keep rolling out so often and making these risky throws will get receivers hurt. His ability is quite similar to Russell Wilson, but that's not how he plays. He seems to think he's more like Ben Roethlisberger; a big, strong armed QB who can rocket the ball down the field and absorb some shots. Not going to work for him in the NFL. If he can cut down on the wild throws, spend more time in the pocket, touch up his accuracy, and shut the #$%^ up on and off the field, he'll be successful. If any one of those doesn't come to fruition, he's going to struggle. I'd rather just not take a chance on him.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:39 PM    (permalink
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I see where he's like Vick. RW relies on his athleticism to buy time whereas Vick and Manziel are more likely to dash. I also believe Vick left after his redshirt sophomore season while Wilson had oodles of experiences for two colleges.

I see where other people don't feel it though. Vicks straight line speed was, IMO, clearly better than Manziels. Vick was a more powerful runner as well. IMO Manziel is much more elusive, and has some of the best balance and awareness I've seen. Vicks arm strength is clearly superior. Being Right handed is a huge difference to me, though most don't care about that.
Manziel more elusive than Vick? You are out of your mind.
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Just gonna say Tebow>> Manziel ..
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Old 01-03-2014, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Just gonna say Tebow>> Manziel ..
And I am just gonna say...lay off the meth.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:20 PM    (permalink
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nfl.com is in the business of making money, like most sites. That's why we see many articles about AJ McCarron everywhere and few about Brett Smith, roughly graded the same, because McCarron is a household name and that gets clicks while Wyoming QBs aren't exactly traffic drivers.
Come back on draft day and you can rub it in if you are right, I just don't see a 1st round talent in Brett Smith at this point of the draft process, but I will certainly be watching his progression in the post season when all the QB's are on an even playing field.
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Old 01-03-2014, 11:27 PM    (permalink
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Come back on draft day and you can rub it in if you are right, I just don't see a 1st round talent in Brett Smith at this point of the draft process, but I will certainly be watching his progression in the post season when all the QB's are on an even playing field.
I don't see either going in the first round and I don't know enough on Smith to say anything more than that. I think McCarron, a guy we've all seen and isn't all that complex, is more a story to get casual football fans to click as opposed to a dissection of Brett Smith, a guy they haven't heard of.
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JBalla is mormon, so naturally he assumes that whenever you get one marriage done, another two or five are in the works.

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Old 01-04-2014, 03:37 AM    (permalink
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People are going to be really sad if they think his running ability is going to even be in the same conversation as Michael Vick's was in the NFL.
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Old 01-04-2014, 04:46 AM    (permalink
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His on-the-field game is amazing, he reminds me of a tinier, faster version of Brett Favre in terms of how he plays the game. Off-the-field, he reminds me of Ryan Leaf. I wouldn't touch him if I were a GM, the bust factor scares me too much. But I really hope he proves me wrong.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Please don't say off the field Manziel reminds you of Ryan Leaf unless you can provide examples.

Leaf was blowing 8-balls at Dub-State and was a general a-hole and f-up in every way possible. Later on he became a heroin addict.

There's no comparison at all personality or behavior wise between Manziel and Leaf.

Manziel wants to be a GREAT quarterback. He worked much of the summer with his own QB guru to improve his game, which is why he was statistically and from a technique standpoint a better QB than he was in 2012.
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Old 01-04-2014, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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His off the field **** is getting blown way out of proportion, I feel like. Or is it just me? I don't know how I feel about him as a prospect but his character concerns are the least of my worries.
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