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Old 01-09-2014, 10:23 AM    (permalink
keylime_5
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I don't have a problem with Clowney in a 34, though I would much rather have him in a 43 so you can just drop 7 every down. That's not my point anyways, it was that it would be a waste to switch to a 43 after switching to a 34 last year and investing in it by giving huge money to Bryant and Kruger and drafting Mingo really high bc they wanted perfect 34 personnel.

Eh, I'm not worried about getting linebackers. We need two more either way, Jackson is getting old and we Robertson is bad. You can get those guys cheap in free agency or in the middle rounds of the draft relatively easily.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
I don't have a problem with Clowney in a 34, though I would much rather have him in a 43 so you can just drop 7 every down. That's not my point anyways, it was that it would be a waste to switch to a 43 after switching to a 34 last year and investing in it by giving huge money to Bryant and Kruger and drafting Mingo really high bc they wanted perfect 34 personnel.

Eh, I'm not worried about getting linebackers. We need two more either way, Jackson is getting old and we Robertson is bad. You can get those guys cheap in free agency or in the middle rounds of the draft relatively easily.
Relatively easy? HAVE YOU SEEN US DRAFT THE PAST 15 YEARS?

Anyways, yeah I like Clowney but I just see Watkins or a QB being a much bigger need with the value still there.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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We haven't really drafted many linebackers actually. Inside ones at least.
We should draft a QB. Hopefully it's the right one. Only thing I don't like about Manziel is his puny size. No way that guy survives in the NFL. Griffin can't even survive and he's got two inches and 20 lbs. on Jonathan Football.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
We haven't really drafted many linebackers actually. Inside ones at least.
We should draft a QB. Hopefully it's the right one. Only thing I don't like about Manziel is his puny size. No way that guy survives in the NFL. Griffin can't even survive and he's got two inches and 20 lbs. on Jonathan Football.
Griffin can't survive because he's a dipshit and doesn't understand the term slide. He went out and said he tries to draw hits on the sideline to get extra yards... Smart.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:59 AM    (permalink
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Few things, as a player ive warmed up to manziel. I think he has elite ball placement, he has exciting escapability, and he has great acceleration

That being said...he may come in at 5-10 7/8, he may be an alcoholic, he may be too caught up in being famous rather than focusing on football, junior QBs tend to be risky, but undersized RS Sophomore QBs, well i dont think theres ever been a successful one of those. I cant even remember a RS sophomore QB period.

Not that i do not think he will be good, i think the ability is there....i cannot see a team taking him in the top 10 though, a GM should really be hesitant to risk their job on that.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:08 AM    (permalink
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He played pretty well the last two seasons for a guy who's not focused on football.

Drafting underclassmen QBs is risky, but so is passing on talented QBs. Roethlisberger was drafted as a underclassmen.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:14 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by K Train View Post
Few things, as a player ive warmed up to manziel. I think he has elite ball placement, he has exciting escapability, and he has great acceleration

That being said...he may come in at 5-10 7/8, he may be an alcoholic, he may be too caught up in being famous rather than focusing on football, junior QBs tend to be risky, but undersized RS Sophomore QBs, well i dont think theres ever been a successful one of those. I cant even remember a RS sophomore QB period.

Not that i do not think he will be good, i think the ability is there....i cannot see a team taking him in the top 10 though, a GM should really be hesitant to risk their job on that.
There was an article I just recently read on Manziel and all of the work he put in on the off season. I would be shocked if he makes it out of the top 8 at this point and can see him going as high as #2 to a team trading up, I doubt he makes it past #4.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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Griffin can't survive because he's a dipshit and doesn't understand the term slide. He went out and said he tries to draw hits on the sideline to get extra yards... Smart.
still, big QBs get hurt even if they are mobile and don't run. You gotta be a pocket passer who gets rid of the ball really quickly (Mannings, Brady, Rivers, Brees) to survive in this league. Manziel's mobility can be a huge asset and a huge flaw b/c he will set himself up to get hit like Vick. Still, I would take a chance on him. When he's not hurt he'll be one of the more exciting players making plays out of nothing like Romo or Favre.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I would be excited to see him play especially if we can use our 2nd pick on a receiver and grab another target in free agency...

I think Manziel is a play maker and people for some reason take away from his throwing ability because of that.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
He played pretty well the last two seasons for a guy who's not focused on football.

Drafting underclassmen QBs is risky, but so is passing on talented QBs. Roethlisberger was drafted as a underclassmen.
yeah matt leinart played pretty well for two seasons too even though he wasnt neccesarily focused on football

Roethlisberger was in a very similar situation, he won a lot of games, he has similar awareness and ability to extend the play, but hes also 6-5 240. Hes an exception for underclassman QB, not the rule.
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There was an article I just recently read on Manziel and all of the work he put in on the off season. I would be shocked if he makes it out of the top 8 at this point and can see him going as high as #2 to a team trading up, I doubt he makes it past #4.
Aaron rodgers was slated to go #1 and Brady Quinn was a top 5 guy. QBs fall often, QB with small size always fall. Top 4 for him would be insane
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
Yeah, I would be excited to see him play especially if we can use our 2nd pick on a receiver and grab another target in free agency...

I think Manziel is a play maker and people for some reason take away from his throwing ability because of that.
I think he can be erractic with his release and his spiral, but his ball placement is tremendous
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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It may be insane but he's not making it out of the top 8 in this draft.

Also, it's not insane if the people in charge of picking him think he's a franchise QB for 10+ years type of guy... Not saying they would be right, but if that is your evaluation and you pass up on him then you are a fool.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by WinslowBodden View Post
There was an article I just recently read on Manziel and all of the work he put in on the off season. I would be shocked if he makes it out of the top 8 at this point and can see him going as high as #2 to a team trading up, I doubt he makes it past #4.
Agree with this. He's a harder worker than he gets credit for.

Mark my words, he will blow teams away in the interviews. He is extremely charismatic and has a much better football iq than he gets credit for. He won't last past 5.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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I just think teams do get caught up in measurables. When he is listed at 6-1 210 and he comes in at 5-10 188 teams will be thinking twice about him as a top 10 guy.
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Old 01-09-2014, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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On the other hand, if he does come in over 6 foot and 200+, nobody's going to be asking whether he's a top-10 pick anymore - they're just going to be asking which team he goes to.

It's silly, but that's just how the coverage works
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Brett Favre/Aaron Rodgers - both probably HOF
Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers - 1 HOF 1 stud
Mike Vick/Nick Foles - Both starters in the NFL
Tom Brady/Ryan Mallet - 1 HOF 1 in waiting
Joe Montana/Steve Young - 2 HOF
Brady/Mallett doesn't even belong on that list.

The rest are groomed behind definite starters. That's not what "When you have two QB's, you have none." applies to. You're not going to have a grooming situation like that in Cleveland.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Thank God for the rookie salary cap.
Otherwise I don't think Manziel would be a potential top 5-10 pick.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Oh really? So the Chargers had none when they had both Brees and Rivers? The Packers had none when they had Favre and Rodgers? I could go on.

Having two QBs means you have two QBs. The Browns would be, well, the Browns if they go into next season with Hoyer and no other potential starting quality QB.
I can't believe I'm explaining more football philosophy on here...

"When you have two quarterbacks, you have none" refers to a situation where you have two STARTERS. This past season, look at Minnesota, where they had THREE. Rivers started his first season at third on the depth chart. He got time to learn. I don't expect that to happen in Cleveland. Especially since Hoyer is apparently the worst starting QB in the league.

I mean, heck, I PREFER grooming situations. They work out very well. There's no such luxury in Cleveland right now.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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I can't believe I'm explaining more football philosophy on here...

"When you have two quarterbacks, you have none" refers to a situation where you have two STARTERS. This past season, look at Minnesota, where they had THREE.
You don't have to explain anything, you are saying if Manziel were to come to Cleveland he would "have to start" even though we have Hoyer who in your eyes is the starter. I think it would be just fine to let Hoyer start the year and let Manziel sit a year and learn the system.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Serious, Browns fans, what do you think of offering the Texans both of your 1st round picks to move up to #1?
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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You don't have to explain anything, you are saying if Manziel were to come to Cleveland he and Hoyer would be battling out. I think it would be just fine to let Hoyer start the year and let Manziel sit a year and learn the system.
They would battle it out. You know damn well the media, the fans, and most importantly the front office would be clamoring for Manziel (or Bortles) the entire preseason, and during the season if the coaching staff starts Hoyer. Would the smart thing be to draft a QB and sit them behind Hoyer? Yes. Would that happen? Not a chance. Not only is Hoyer seemingly awful and I don't know it, you're passing up on other instant starters to select a QB. I don't see what's wrong with picking Mettenberger or Garroppolo later in the third or so and:

1. Save yourself a headache;
2. Develop a guy for possibly more than one season if Hoyer is the real deal;
3. Give Hoyer a fair shot by declaring him the starter early;
4. Add talent that can start right away at 4th overall.

I feel like Hoyer's been thrown out with the old bathwater, and he will be if there's a QB at 4. I mean, we're acting as if you HAVE to draft a QB in the first for him to be successful. Kaepernick (2), Wilson (3), Brady (6), Brees (2), Foles (3) and Dalton (2) make a half of playoff QB's this season. HALF. The only prospects you should place urgency on are the elite ones, and that's only Bridgewater this year for QB's. He's the only one people can agree on as a top 5 prospect. Otherwise, unless your board says otherwise for some reason, there's no reason to reach on someone that might not be the answer. And if you do take a guy that high, be prepared to suffer the consequences from it, both on and off the field, should it not pan out.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:42 PM    (permalink
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Serious, Browns fans, what do you think of offering the Texans both of your 1st round picks to move up to #1?
I'd do it. Get Teddy, and make him your starter day 1. Period. Hoyer and Campbell can coach from the sidelines.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:44 PM    (permalink
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Manziel to Gordon would be sweet.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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If I was the Texans, I am either picking Bridgewater, or holding that pick for ransom, like the Rams did with RGIII. It might take more than 3 first rounders to complete a trade with Houston.
Back to the topic, I probably underestimated Manziel's physical tools. He doesn't have a great arm, but a good one. Personally, I think Tony Romo is a better comparison than Russell Wilson. Both Romo and Manziel are at their best when things break down, Wilson can pick you apart in the pocket.
My biggest concern remains unsolved, which is how will he win the respect of the veterans of whichever team drafts him?
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Simple. By winning. Players don't care about anything else. If you lead them to victories they got your back.
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Old 01-09-2014, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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They would battle it out. You know damn well the media, the fans, and most importantly the front office would be clamoring for Manziel (or Bortles) the entire preseason, and during the season if the coaching staff starts Hoyer. Would the smart thing be to draft a QB and sit them behind Hoyer? Yes. Would that happen? Not a chance. Not only is Hoyer seemingly awful and I don't know it, you're passing up on other instant starters to select a QB. I don't see what's wrong with picking Mettenberger or Garroppolo later in the third or so and:

1. Save yourself a headache;
2. Develop a guy for possibly more than one season if Hoyer is the real deal;
3. Give Hoyer a fair shot by declaring him the starter early;
4. Add talent that can start right away at 4th overall.

I feel like Hoyer's been thrown out with the old bathwater, and he will be if there's a QB at 4. I mean, we're acting as if you HAVE to draft a QB in the first for him to be successful. Kaepernick (2), Wilson (3), Brady (6), Brees (2), Foles (3) and Dalton (2) make a half of playoff QB's this season. HALF. The only prospects you should place urgency on are the elite ones, and that's only Bridgewater this year for QB's. He's the only one people can agree on as a top 5 prospect. Otherwise, unless your board says otherwise for some reason, there's no reason to reach on someone that might not be the answer. And if you do take a guy that high, be prepared to suffer the consequences from it, both on and off the field, should it not pan out.
My whole argument is based on you can't pass on a guy if you think he is going to be a franchise QB, especially if your best thing on the roster is an unknown.

If our FO thinks Manziel is going to be amazing as a pro, and they pass him up because Hoyer "might" be good then they are idiots. If they pass him up to avoid a headache because the media will want Manziel to play then they are pussies.

I don't want a bunch of idiot pussies running the team.

In the past, we have drafted developmental players in the third round and beyond. Remember Charlie Frye - AWFUL. Remember Colt McCoy - AWFUL. Go down the list, the last two times our team took a first round QB was a guy they weren't sold on to take in the top 5, but wanted to trade back into the first round for and a desparation pick at 22 on a 30 year old ginger. What does that tell you?

We have a decent offensive line, a pro-bowl receiver and tight end, and a **** ton of cap space and draft picks. If Manziel is sitting there at 4 you take him if he's your guy and you don't look back. If you want to name Hoyer your starter, go ahead, if he plays well he will keep the job and Manziel will get to sit. If he sucks the media will rightfully make everyone aware and Manziel will get his shot sooner rather than later.
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