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Old 05-24-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
Denver Bronco56
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Default Interesting view on the HOF

So as my username and many of you know by my posts I am a huge Broncos fan, often I can come off as a Homer but I love football in general and respect good players (Obviously not anyone in my division haha).

With all of that being said Tom Nalen long time all-pro, pro bowl center for the Broncos and anchored the center of the line from 94-08 and He has gone on to host a local sports talk show in Denver. But He is getting inducted into the Broncos Ring of Fame and during his interview he was asked how the honor felt, and he replied along the lines "It means much more than being elected to the HOF because the voters for the HOF dont know you, are not able to see you on film day in and day out."


But he was then asked about his opinion on HOF voting for Olinemen he said something that we all have hit on numerous times on here. but we as fans dont get to see the responsibilities, or the blocking schemes on any given play or if someone was supposed to help chip etc. Nalen went on to say that the HOF voters(Sports Writers) honestly are no different than fans when it comes to what they see and often vote for the big name instead of the best player. Since they dont have coaches film, he said that Oline coaches should be the ones voting for the HOF because most people dont understand line play, and simply go by pro-bowl numbers or All-Pro(which again is voted by sports writers)

What is your opinion on this all? Because I think Nalen hit it on the head.


Here is the video, it is a good watch not just for Broncos fans. He is very funny and gives an honest insider opinon on the NFL.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/multime...8-9ee5a453da22

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Old 05-24-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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I think the issue you have is with writers being the guys who decide is, yes they are oftentimes no more qualified to judge play than any regular NFL fan, plus they are often fed false information from sources.

So many writers and analysts get these "unnamed sources" who tell them some piece of information and run with it as though its the 100% truth.

You really think Pete Prisco is going to talk to one of the Texans offensive line coaches asking him to break someone down for his top 100 players list and the coach is going to say

"Well...this is the blocking scheme we were running to exploit such and such, and as you can see player x runs it to perfection. We like to run that scheme because it covers up the weaknesses of this guy"

No, of course they don't. Why give up information to journalists on something as sensitive as your play calling or blocking schemes. Sure, football people may tell these journalists that a player is great and really underrated by fans, but they aren't going to go into detail, and as mentioned the guys who pick people for the HOF just aren't qualified enough to make those calls
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Well I would say this having coached on the offensive side of the ball. I coached TEs so I was focusing in on DEs and a LB if he is over the TE. So in theory, I am not focusing or caring about opposing TEs.

An OL coach, wouldn't see other OL guys. When you're watching tape you are focusing on the DL front and their players. So conversely, I would say, ask league wise DL coaches to evaluate OL players. It's counter intuitive but they are the ones watching opposing OL players week in and week out. They know which OL guy will give them trouble.

So I would just say that. I know if someone asked me, did you see that TE for so and so school? I would say no, I am not watching offensive tape. The defense has that copy. I am watching opposing defenses specifically certain positions so I can comment on that.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Yes, it is a flawed system and actually it's very similar to the discussion they're having on other thread regarding B Graham and JPP. We as fans (and the journalists who participate in the process) do not get the hole picture of what it's supposed to happen on any given play, we only see Adrian Peterson running for 40 yars, but ignore the fact that the LT made a great backside block to open it up, we see Earl Thomas intercept the football but ignore the fact that R Sherman made a great bump at the line of scrimmage to ruin the timing and so on and so forth.

Another flaw to take into consideration is that there is no statistic to measure an o-lineman's performance on the field, making it very difficult for them to stand in front of their peers to the eyes of the regular fan. O-lineman have to be one in a generetion to get the recognition they deserve.

The only good thing about it is that when the O-lineman get inducted to the HOF you know those guys are deserving of the honor, there will be no stat compilers or things like that. Also (SOMETIMES) they not only represent themselves, but they represent a very good o-line

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Old 05-27-2013, 03:13 AM    (permalink
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No position relies on a player's reputation more for getting into Canton than Oline. Most fans either just don't notice good oline play because we're watching the sacks, the TD catches, the 80 yard runs and the 60 yard bombs, or we only notice an Olineman when he does something freakishly dominant.

With LTs it's easier to tell when someone is good, but with guards and centers, I think there are probably dozens if not more players who performed at a HOF level but not only were overlooked by Canton, they were missed in probowl and allpro voting as well.

You can be a great Olineman, but if the guy next to you is average or worse, it's going to make your own play look less outstanding.
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:36 AM    (permalink
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Yes. I think the voting process for the Hall of Fame needs to be revamped. How many sports writers are really researching the entire career for potential inductees? Especially like offensive linemen. Maybe there should be a special organization devoted to just electing guys into the Hall. Something like a Football Outsiders or Pro Football Focus.
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:26 AM    (permalink
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it's the hall of fame. it's something sportwriters created to celebrate themselves - their work is telling the story, and the hall is where they host their favorite characters. football players play for championships. the hall is nice, but it is what it is.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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I would rather have a clear GREAT, SPECIAL player into the Hall of Fame, for their shorter periods of clear greatness (League Leaders, MVPs, etc.) than a guy who does it well, for longevity purposes.

There's no way in hell that Curt Martin and Jerome Bettis were better at any point in their careers than someone like Gale Sayers or Terrell Davis... same with some receivers against Sterling Sharpe.

And same with some QBs than Kurt Warner.

We love the old Steelers and Cowboys for all their Super Bowls. Kurt Warner took THREE teams there. Three teams who otherwise would never have smelt the Super Bowl.
And he also had some record-setting, all-world full seasons.

He's a HOF player.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Kurt Warner only made it to the superbowl with the Rams and Cardinals, only winning one of the three times he got there despite being given the leagues best receivers.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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Kurt Warner only made it to the superbowl with the Rams and Cardinals, only winning one of the three times he got there despite being given the leagues best receivers.
Jerry Rice?
Marvin Harrison?
Reggie Wayne?
Randy Moss?
Terrell Owens?
Megatron?
Andre Johnson?

How many Super Bowls did Peyton Manning win again? Make it to?
Warner has won the same amount, and made it to one more.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Kurt Warner only made it to the superbowl with the Rams and Cardinals, only winning one of the three times he got there despite being given the leagues best receivers.
The Cards had no running game at all and a garbage offensive line, in addition to having one of the worst defenses in the league. Yes he had good receivers, but come on.
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Warner is an interesting case. He will have his people on both sides stating their respective cases. I think that image and the way he came into the league will sway voters. It's a good feel good story going from bag guy to SB winner. I can see voters voting for him and he getting in.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Warner had Bruce and Holt, Az Hakim, and he also had Marshall Faulk, the best running back in the game at the time. Don't get me wrong, he was very special and I do believe him to be HOF worthy. But to suggest he accomplished what he did despite having a subpar supporting cast is a huge overstatement.

In Arizona he had Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Breaston, all of whom compiled over 1,000 receiving yards that season. Running back by committee with Edgerrin James and Tim Hightower was suspect, but once again, far from a weak supporting cast.
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Old 05-28-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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You can't be great without consistency...longevity. There are special cases like Gale Sayers(totally different era) and Terrell Davis, but it really annoys me there are fans who refuse to acknowledge Martin was a great RB because he didn't rush for 20 TDs in a season or 2000 yards. His overall numbers don't lie, at that position.

He averaged 1281 yards/season over 11 years.
I believe only Walter Payton, Barry Sanders and Jim Brown have a higher per season average yards rushing.
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Old 05-28-2013, 12:52 PM    (permalink
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Herman Moore is a great example. From 1994-1997 he caught 405 passes for 5,446 yards and 42 touchdowns, went to the Pro Bowl all four years and was a 3-time All-Pro. It was a fantastic run. He was extremely difficult to defend. But no one is suggesting that Herman Moore be inducted, nor should they.
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