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Old 06-17-2013, 11:32 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
No, Ness said The Walking Dead is a good show because of the ratings it gets.
Nope, never said that. I love that you keep using this lie/information out of context.

Come on Vidae, at least make it interesting.
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:51 PM    (permalink
bantx
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I sell my old games that I don't play all the time, mainly sports game that are outdated. Never have I said, hey you know what I think I'll play NBA 2k11 instead of 2k13 today. So might as well get something for it and selling it for some store credit with an additional 30% off any game you buy isn't too bad for a game I don't play anymore anyways.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bantx View Post
I sell my old games that I don't play all the time, mainly sports game that are outdated. Never have I said, hey you know what I think I'll play NBA 2k11 instead of 2k13 today. So might as well get something for it and selling it for some store credit with an additional 30% off any game you buy isn't too bad for a game I don't play anymore anyways.
That only applies to sport games for me, and I rarely buy them anymore. They don't add enough new stuff for me to get excited about. Now, if Madden put in co-op superstar I'd be all over that.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by nrk View Post
Kids really aren't that big of a demographic, though. http://www.gamespot.com/news/esa-wom...gamers-6410363

Sure, any game will be traded in. Not every developer is being hurt by used game sales though. *cough cough* Nintendo doesn't have the used games up to developers policy. :)
I mean, that's a pretty big share (a third of the market). Is that a demographic look at who is purchasing video games or who is buying them? It is a bit confusing.

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I don't want to edit down your quote Forenci cause I'm on my phone, but yes, scam is the wrong word. It's not a scam. If people choose to sell their games for pennies on the dollar, that's their choice. It's a poor choice in my opinion, but they aren't being tricked into doing it.
I mean, you can choose whatever word you like. Ripped off, jipped, etc. I just don't like it when there is such a HUGE disparity for what people are trading it in for and what they are being sold for. And of course, most people will go for it because it means: money in their pocket for something they no longer want and a cheaper game for the person buying it. To me it's a rip off. I understand that's not the case for everyone, though.

To address bantx's point: I'm not sure your argument applies in this instance to what I'm discussing. If you're talking about trading in 2k11 for nothing at the time of getting 2k13, I'm quite certain 2k11 used from Gamestop would be exceptionally cheap as well to buy. I'm talking more about new games being traded in for very little, then being resold for almost new.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i guess i don't really care that they said it. they're wrong or they're lying. just like the idiots who rant about how well a game would've sold if it weren't for piracy.



unless someone has, for once, shown a demonstrable link between the two, don't bother.



have you like, heard of thrift stores? where's all the ire and rage about used cars? not the same? oh. right. because one isn't being used to prop up a system/company that made an idiotic mistake. everyone resells everything that isn't consumable. and no one whines about the poor auto makers who aren't making any money. the witcher guys didn't even bother with DRM and they seem to be doing just fine.



no, i'm telling you that wanting gamestop out of business for the deadly sin of selling people something they want legally is, frankly, ridiculous. i get that you don't care what price new games will cost on consoles. i'm not sure why you're so busy celebrating the fact that i won't be able to afford to play games on a console anymore, or why you think this is remotely a good thing beyond "well, i don't do that, so i hope they all fail!" it's *literally* an absurdist argument, and you wouldn't in a million years be making it if microsoft hadn't been the one who'd decided to **** over their customers.

i don't want steam to put gamestop out of business. i want them both to thrive, because THAT'S the absolute only thing that ensures that i'll be able to pay the lowest prices for games, and further ensures that some folks will continue to make quality games (instead of a parade of FPS clones, because every 12 year old will buy the gold version on launch day for $300 and not blink when they're expected to do it again a month later).
You're a good guy, njx, but I feel like you're putting some MAJOR words into my mouth here. You're making a huge jump from me not wanting people to get ripped off for trading in their used games to me wanting people who can't afford new games not to be able to play consoles. That is not at all what I want.

Have you read anything I've been posting? I do not plan on purchasing a console at launch because it is too expensive for me. I also almost NEVER buy games at their release and just wait for deal a few months later and buy them for cheaper. That's pretty much the only way I can afford gaming.

Also, comparing thrift stores to a multi-billion dollar industry? You don't think that's a stretch? I would wager the vast majority of people buy their clothes new. And don't get me started on used cars, another area where I think people tend to get ripped off.

I also disagree about people re-selling everything that isn't consumable. There are a lot of things that people won't buy that has not been consumed.

And I do understand some pretty basic business concepts. More business = greater competition = lower prices. Yet, according to your own previous statements, Steam is a different company not purely motivated by profit (at least that's what I took out of your comments, perhaps I am wrong here).

And honestly, why do you think game devs are lying? It's about much more than just making a basic profit. Game publishers want huge profits, because it is there for the taking. We've seen hundreds of companies get axed and cut back on for not meeting expectations. Would that probably change if used games were gone? I doubt it. In some cases, maybe though.

I do not find piracy comparable to used games in anyway. That is a HUGE stretch. Piracy is completely misunderstood. The vast majority of people who would pirate a game either would never buy it because it really isn't a huge interest to them OR don't have the money to buy the games to begin with. Used games are much different. At least in the context I'm discussing, where new games are traded in for a minimal price, and then only marked down a few dollars.

Also, I could careless if it was Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo making a policy. And, how does that even effect me? I can still trade in my games on an XBox One. I'm confused as to how you think that would in anyway impact my argument? I'm just talking about the practice of used games. I think you're trying to overestimate my fan hood for the sake of your argument. Sure, I've been dicked over by Sony a few times, but going into this next-gen I literally had no idea what console I would go with. Trading games is a different matter, but used games on the XBox One has literally nothing to do with this argument (hence why I've never mentioned it).

I am also a little confused in how Steam putting Gamestop's digital distribution method out of business effects what types of games developers make? If Steam and Gamestop digital distribution are still around that means less FPS clones? I don't get it. I mean, Steam is the one platforming indie games, early access, green light games, etc. Again, not sure if you're just kind of ranting in general or speaking specifically about what I was talking about.

Like I said, I completely understand more competition = better prices, but prior to Gamestop having forms of digital distribution, we still saw insane deals on games from Steam/Origins and other companies.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:24 AM    (permalink
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I'd like to put major words in your mouth
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:11 AM    (permalink
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Has there been a definitive explanation about used games on the Xbox?

I hate Gamestop as much as the next guy but I feel like I'm the one getting screwed with these restrictions.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:30 AM    (permalink
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I think my greatest regret ever in gaming was trading in Final Fantasy 7 for credit towards Final Fantasy 8.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:01 AM    (permalink
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ive never traded in anything in to gamestop but every 360 game i own is from there, all used
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:22 AM    (permalink
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ive never traded in anything in to gamestop but every 360 game i own is from there, all used
Kind of like...YOUR MOM

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Old 06-18-2013, 06:36 AM    (permalink
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I don't want to edit down your quote Forenci cause I'm on my phone, but yes, scam is the wrong word. It's not a scam. If people choose to sell their games for pennies on the dollar, that's their choice. It's a poor choice in my opinion, but they aren't being tricked into doing it.
Scam is 100% the wrong word. I hope Forenci never teacher economics.

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I think my greatest regret ever in gaming was trading in Final Fantasy 7 for credit towards Final Fantasy 8.
In your defense, Final Fantasy 8 looked super awesome at the time.

Last edited by WCH : 06-18-2013 at 06:38 AM.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:46 AM    (permalink
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Scam is 100% the wrong word. I hope Forenci never teacher economics.



In your defense, Final Fantasy 8 looked super awesome at the time.
I hope you never teach grammar.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:01 AM    (permalink
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I hope you never teach grammar.
I won't teach proofreading.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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In your defense, Final Fantasy 8 looked super awesome at the time.
No, it really didn't.
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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Kind of like...YOUR MOM

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

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Old 06-18-2013, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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Well to be fair. New games (read within three months of release) are usually not marked down more than approx 5-15 dollars. I always wondered how gamestop would already have used games available a week after launch.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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How I imagine a lot of people in this thread are (myself included at times)

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Old 06-18-2013, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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I think my greatest regret ever in gaming was trading in Final Fantasy 7 for credit towards Final Fantasy 8.
8 was pretty bad. Had some potential but was just terribly executed.
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that's because we're the only animal capable of getting it from other animals. the day a goat can milk cows, it will.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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This is in response to njx. I suppose the quoting got messed up so I decided to just delete it.

Well, the putting words in my mouth stemmed from you saying I didn't want people who couldn't afford new games to be able to afford gaming. Never once said that. To assume because I think Gamestop rips off gamers and I want them to go out of business, ideally replaced by someone who is fairer to gamers, and correlate that to me not wanting certain people to play games IS putting words in my mouth. Or at least making bold assumptions based on what I've said.

I mean, I bought Skyrim for $25 on PC a few months after it was released and have seen NUMEROUS deals for it on console. I think maybe you're looking in the wrong places for deals? I use a combination of the Reddit game deals thread, Logicbuy, and a few other forums to get some amazing deals. I suggest you do the same because you've been missing out.

Also, I discussed Gamestop's digital distribution because I had mentioned it before. In addition, I did so to prove that Steam has had PLENTY of deals before and after increased competition in its area increased, and to show that Gamestop is the equivalent to the music industry when it comes to getting aboard popular platforms and means of distribution. Probably because they don't like taking sales away from their used games, which is huge for them. Now, I know that's a stretch, but considering they were one of the last to implement digital distribution I feel that they are pretty slow and behind the times. Used games help sustain them because they get to rip off the consumer. And, let's not forget, they are RARELY selling used games (that aren't very old) for less than new game prices.

I also find it fascinating you're using Nintendo as a model. I mean, if they're such a great model to stop used games (and thus presumably make more profit) why are they taking the money away from people who make "Let's Play" videos on Youtube? Why is the Wii U the laughing stock of the next-gen world? I mean, seriously, compare the Wii U to the PS4 and XBox One. And I understand the Wii U came out earlier, but let's be real....it's terrible. They are relegated to make the same games over and over (and I love some of them, so don't get me wrong) but their third party support is lackluster at best. To use them as a model of what developers should do is, quite honestly, silly to me.

Also, I hate to break it to you, but despite the competition, plenty of companies already have "maddenized" games. Call of Duty is also published by Activision, for what it's worth (it seemed you were saying EA published it?). I mean, look at games in general. Assassins Creed has become a rinse and repeat series. Call of Duty. Final Fantasy. Metal Gear Solid (perhaps less so). You name it. I mean, look at where most of the ingenuity comes from. Small indie games on the PC. I honestly do not feel this has anything to do with what we're talking about. I don't think less consumer competition for game distributors would mean more clones.

But that's no excuse. Even games that DOMINATE the competition still put out quality titles. NBA2k has had no competition for a few years now and they still consistently put out great games. Heck, even when NBA Live was around I doubt you could call it competition considering how terrible the game was. EA is a **** company. They have been for a long time. Have the gotten better? Eh, maybe. The only smart thing they've done is leave DICE alone for the most part.

And I am guessing we've had different experiences with used cars. Every dealership I've been to has been a pretty massive rip off. $12,000 for a Honda Civic that has 180,000 miles on it? No thanks. That is pretty much the summation of most of the used car "deals" I've encountered. Again, maybe that's different experiences we have had.

If you want, I could list 20 things most people don't want to rebuy. It would be sort of tedious and pointless though. Again, I'm talking on a much larger scale. Used games are HUGE. Used cars are HUGE. But most resale items don't garner that sort of mainstay market. That was my main issue with some of the things you were listing. Thrift stores aren't generating that sort of interest. They have become more popular sure, but to think they will threaten the sale of new clothes I think is pushing it big time.

Also, I can't remember if it was you or someone else who said used games that were being brought back days after weren't being resold for $5-15 dollars less than their new counterparts, but I can ensure you they are.

http://www.gamestop.com/trade-values

Do the research. Mass Effect pre-owned trilogy, trade it in for $20. Buy it pre-owned for $37.99. Buy it new for $39.99.

Okay, so, that's an older game. Heck, you're not even losing that much money there I guess. Okay, MLB 13: The Show. $27.99 if you trade it in. Okay, not bad. Except it's being sold for $54.99 used. $59.99 new. So if you're the consumer, what will you do? Save five dollars? Right? And that's why game devs DO get screwed over, far far far more than they do with piracy. I'm not saying you should necessarily feel bad for them, but they are. If you're buying used games, chances are you're not spending much less than you do if you buy a new game. That's why it's a bit scummy to me. Gamestop rarely sells a used games for significantly less than a new game, knowing people will gladly pay five dollars less. And they get 100% of the profits on that game sale. Now, granted they do pay for those used games, but it's still a huge profit margin.

And also, what is listed here is the absolute BEST you can hope to get back, and as it notes at the bottom, is subject to change and may very well be less. You clearly got a nice deal on Mass Effect. That's cool. Except most used games are just undercutting new game sales by $5, MAYBE.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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that is a lot of words.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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If I throw my pokeball at the SARF, will i capture it? second sighting in a while
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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noes, I will forever be wild.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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What if I throw the master ball?
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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What if I throw the master ball?
The trainer blocked the pokeball!

Don't be a thief!
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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The tug-of-war between Microsoft and Sony just got more interesting. Multiple sources inform me Microsoft will announce what amounts to a complete reversal on its DRM policies for Xbox One today.

What does this mean?

No more always online requirement
The console no longer has to check in every 24 hours
All game discs will work on Xbox One as they do on Xbox 360
An Internet connection is only required when initially setting up the console
All downloaded games will function the same when online or offline
No additional restrictions on trading games or loaning discs
Region locks have been dropped
http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/mi...-dr/1100-4673/
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Old 06-19-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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Well 95% of this thread is now worthless.
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