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View Poll Results: Should the Jets Fire Rex Ryan?
Fire Him 9 15.52%
Keep Him 49 84.48%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
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Default Should the Jets Fire Rex Ryan?

Black Monday is coming, and there is one coach on the hot seat that surely will have the largest variation of opinions on whether or not he should be fired. Rex Ryan is in the midst of his 3rd straight missed playoff season.
While his team arguably overperformed this season record wise relative to their talent level, statistically this is the worst Jets team in the Ryan era.

There are 2 schools of thought on whether or not RR should be retained or let go.

Keep Him:

- He has been the most successful Jets coach in a long time bringing the Jets to consecutive AFC championship games in his first 2 seasons.
- Rex Ryan is one of the best defensive minds in football, and has consistently yielded a top defense despite personnel turnover and a brutal offense.
- The Jets are heading towards a 7-9 or an 8-8 season despite having one of the worst rosters in the NFL.
- The Coples, Richardson, Snacks, and Wilkerson DL is something special, and if Ryan is retained should terrorize the NFL for a long time.
- Tannebaum royally screwed the Jets cap in the 2011 and 2012 offseasons when he overpaid Sanchez, Harris, and Holmes leaving the Jets in cap hell and devoid of talent.
- The players, fans, and media mostly love him.
- He's ultimately a very talented coach x's and o's wise and he has a ton of upside if he can learn to refine himself.

Fire Him:

This is the side that I fall on.

- RR is in the last year of his contract, if the Jets keep him they need to extend him and commit to him for more than this year.
- The offense is and has been an absolute joke for his entire tenure with the team. He's on his 3rd offensive coordinator and 2nd QB. He's spent a 1st, 3 seconds, 3 thirds (I included Edwards for this count), and 3 4ths (Ivory) and all he really has to show for it is Ivory and Powell who would not be starting backs on most teams. (Winters, Hill, and Smith were exclude because of general awfulness)
- Over the past few seasons the Jets have generally played 2 types of games, they either win close, or they get blown out. This is a direct indictment of poor coaching.
- This graphic tells it all http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ef=sports&_r=0
- So many distractions from the Mark Sanchez tattoo, repeated SB guarantees, foot fetish incident, and Dave & Busters, at what point is enough?
- Even his vaunted defense is getting worse despite 5 first round picks on that side of the ball during hs tenure.

However for me the biggest thing for me is that Ryan simply lacks vision. He was partially responsible for the cap situation the Jets have now. He went all in on the 2011 and 2012 Jets. They signed Santonio Holmes to a 5 year $50 million contract and paid him only $1 million in year one, they extended Sanchez to save some room even though there were plenty of signs that he wasn't developing, he paid market price for Mangold, D'Brick, and Harris because he didn't want to lose anybody, and he traded for and extended Cro despite already having Wilson and Revis. You can blame Tannebaum, but Rex clearly had significant influence in the personnel aspects of the Jets.

Why did the Jets spend so recklessly? Because he felt like those teams could win a SB, which he failed to do. So I don't extend him Carte Blanche (Actually I obviously do as a Pats fan) because the Jets roster is terrible now. He got himself in this mess, so having a terrible team this far into his tenure is a direct indictment of him IMO.

Now the Jets are at a crossroads as a team. They'll have cap space and a relatively high pick. Do they really want to place their rebuild in the hands of Ryan? If they do they'll have to extend him and commit to him for longer than a year. I simply wouldn't trust him.

I think RR has a ton of potential as a head coach, but the Jets need to hit reset. Certain coaches are game coaches and others build programs. I consider Rex the former. I think Rex could develop a lot as a DC under a Belichick or a Harbaugh type, but he'll be snatched up for a HC vacancy too quickly that I doubt he'd even consider trying it.

What say you on this matter DC?

Last edited by cmarq83 : 12-27-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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As a Jets fan I could see it either way, but I tend to lean towards keeping him for the third and seventh reasons you have listed as pros. Ultimately he did a great job with a crap roster this year in what was basically a throwaway season, and his guys don't quit on him. Another big benefit is that he seems to have recognized areas that need improvement and done things to fix them (being too brash, not staying overly involved in the offense/personnel decisions, etc) or at least gone with the directives to fix them from above. That gives me faith he can reach that potential you allude to.

I also think your extended concerns about how he screwed up the team are somewhat mitigated by the fact that Tannenbaum isn't around any more. Idzik seems extremely methodical and I don't think he's going to let Ryan take control like Tannenbaum did. Plus Idzik's got much more of a football background than Tannenbaum, I think Tannenbaum leaned on Rex because he had no clue what he was doing. The current structure with a (potentially) better GM to keep him in check and an offensive coordinator with lots of experience in Mornhinweg is a better setup for Ryan than it was when he was basically running everything. You put him in a situation where the FO is making personnel decisions with some input and Rex isn't dabbling in the offense excessively and it positions him for success moreso than when he just runs wild. Let him work with the defense, contribute on offense where he's comfortable with, and motivate the guys and maybe you have something.

The big thing is I tend to look at things numerically - and I just think odds are even if they need to hit reset the new coach will be a step back from Ryan. I'm not sure how many coaches in the league get 7 (possibly 8) wins out of that horrible roster this season. So odds are whatever unproven commodity you're getting is, in my mind, going to be a downgrade.

I think he's going to get axed regardless though, so I'm not sure it matters much. And I won't mind too much, because there are plenty of downsides to Rex. I'm just far from convinced they're going to find a better coach despite that.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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1. The cap situation they have now? The Jets are looking at having 22-24 million in cap space this upcoming offseason. That's before they cut Santonio Holmes and Mark Sanchez; who will provide another 16. Depending on the cap number, the Jets could have 40 million in available cap space this offseason.

2. The Jets defense is getting worse, but I would argue that aside from the defensive line, they're failing to adequately replace players who are departing. Who replaced Bart Scott, Tony Richardson and LaDainian Tomlinson from a leadership standpoint? Who replaced Laron Landry? Despite the general opinions of the board, Laron was plenty good for the Jets last year. Dee Milliner replaced Darrelle Revis is roster spot only. Last week was the first time Milliner didn't look like the weak link in the secondary. Hopefully that will be the new norm. It would certainly justify the pick.

3. You're listing signing Cro as a negative? Aside from this year (which he has been playing with a hip injury that has slowed him), Cro has ranged from pretty good to phenomenal during his time with the Jets. Letting Cromartie go could give the Jets almost another 10 million on the cap above the aforementioned 40 million. But I don't particularly want them to do that because I expect a bounce back season next year from him if the Jets keep Rex.


But in the end, in comes down to one simple question. If the Jets let Rex Ryan go, can they get someone better? Maybe there's someone out there I'm missing, but looking at the impending coaching market, I don't think the answer is yes.

Last edited by Crickett : 12-27-2013 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
I think RR has a ton of potential as a head coach, but the Jets need to hit reset. Certain coaches are game coaches and others build programs. I consider Rex the former. I think Rex could develop a lot as a DC under a Belichick or a Harbaugh type, but he'll be snatched up for a HC vacancy too quickly that I doubt he'd even consider trying it.

What say you on this matter DC?
Sometimes coaches just aren't ready when they get their first opportunity to coach and show flashes of what can be but can't quite get there on a week to week basis. Sometimes coaches get lucky breaks leading to magical seasons that weren't the byproduct of coaching as much as the right breaks. Hard to say where is on that spectrum but with the off field issues in his tenure the Jets are best suited letting him go now and he is best suited stepping back to the role of DC for a season or two where he can focus on befriending offensive coaches for his next HC gig.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Fire the guy who decided to start Geno Smith this year and that isn't really a knock on Geno.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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I don't think the Jets should let him go... Coming into the year the Jets were going to be the laughing stock of the NFL and lucky to win 5 games. Fast forward to week 17 and you have a team playing to get to 8-8 and only out of the playoff race due to tie breakers.

They seem to play almost every week with a ton of passion on defense, only held back at times by their QB and receivers (sounds like a Broncos team a couple years ago). Rex seemingly hasn't had an offense since he has been there. They need to get a WR in free agency that isn't a nut case (Edwards/Holmes) and either get a veteran QB or pray to god Geno Smith improves. Their defense is obviously going to continue to be a strength moving forward but they need to eliminate turnovers and get Geno a reliable target.

I like what Rex has done this year, and I was completely for firing him last year because I thought he was an idiot and an egomaniac. He seems to have calmed down a bit and become a motivator.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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I think they should give him one more year but if they don't get better QB play then not much is going to change.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Of course the Patriot fans are going to want to keep him for purely selfish reasons. Ditto Geno Smith.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Fire the guy who decided to start Geno Smith this year and that isn't really a knock on Geno.
I can't believe people thought he was anywhere close to NFL ready from the offense he had at West Virginia.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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I think Rex is a much better coach than he gets credit for. He has done a much better job with not a whole lot of talent. The defense is much less talented than people realize. He has been able to have a good defense on a consistent basis. Ownership pretty much read him his last rites and strapped him to the chair in the beginning of the season and his players have fought for him. I would keep him, but I think management fires him.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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It is NYC/NJ media. Distraction will be always problematic there. So far, these distractions are weak as they are not reasons why Jets have been struggling.

During Idzik's first year as Jets GM, he managed to get 3 promising offensive players. Ivory, Smith and Winters are a good start.

-Winters should get better next year with extra homework/study during off season.

-Smith made the best out himself in pro style. Smith crashed hard during Kerley's absence.

-Ivory has played well once he got in a groove.

That is the direction where Jets will go as Idzik will find a way to solve the receiving group during Year Two.

Ryan has no place to seek out for contract extension as he knows it. He can leave Jets for better situation with different team if he wants. Otherwise, he should finish his contract with Jets as Idzik runs the visionary for Jets. If Jets decide to dump Ryan, it is fine as long as OC and DC are retained. That is all I care about.

Big concern with Jets' offense is Colon and Howard being FA. Losing them will hinder the progression. Jets could not afford to gamble the mid rounders to bolster either OL or receiving group.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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They should keep him.
He's a better coach than whoever they would replace him with.

See Kiffin. Monte. See Rob Ryan. See Dallas defense.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:50 PM    (permalink
MassNole
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Quote:
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They should keep him.
He's a better coach than whoever they would replace him with.

See Kiffin. Monte. See Rob Ryan. See Dallas defense.
That is impossible to know without seeing who they replace him with. Bill O'Brien from Penn State might be a significant upgrade.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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No.

If Rex gets a competent (not Geno Smith or Mark Sanchez) QB, and a strong offensive coordinator (I think Morninwheg can still be this guy), he can take the Jets to the Super Bowl easily.

What they should do is trade for or sign someone like Jay Cutler. Let Rex focus on the defense and that team could be something special next year. They already have one of the best DLines in the game.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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That is impossible to know without seeing who they replace him with. Bill O'Brien from Penn State might be a significant upgrade.
I don't think he could be a Jet coach. Idzik is born and bred in WCO. I am sure O'Brien can handle WCO but he has his own philosophy that will require some time to turn around for Jets. Timing is wrong.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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O'Brien should go to the Lions. He has a QB there.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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I don't really see why a guy like Cutler would choose the Jets. He'll have multiple suitors, and I doubt he'd pick the Jets with all the pressure he'd get there with absolutely no supporting cast.

That being said missing out on Cutler would be extremely beneficial for the Jets in the long run.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I don't really see why a guy like Cutler would choose the Jets. He'll have multiple suitors, and I doubt he'd pick the Jets with all the pressure he'd get there with absolutely no supporting cast.

That being said missing out on Cutler would be extremely beneficial for the Jets in the long run.
Considering who is wife is and their child, I see no circumstance in which Jay Cutler voluntarily chooses to play for a New York team. Houston on the other hand could be a match made in heaven.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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As a Dolphins fan, I hope they fire Rex. I think the Jets would be stupid to fire him.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
Thecollegedropout
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The way I see fellow Jets fans opinions on their message boards, 3 out of every 5 Jet fan would want to keep Rex.

I'd be one of those 3. They need to keep him regardless of the outcome on Sunday.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:33 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
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One point that I implied but didn't directly make was that RR and his staff haven't shown to be great developers of talent. Outside the DL the Jets team has had pitiful results over the past 5 seasons finding and developing young players.

Considering that this along with game planning are the 2 biggest roles a coach has, it should count as a pretty significant knock against him.
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Old 12-27-2013, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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I'd definitely keep him, although I wonder if Idzik will fire him just to get his own guy in there.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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O'Brien should go to the Lions. He has a QB there.
He has one at PSU, arguably a better one.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:10 PM    (permalink
derza222
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One point that I implied but didn't directly make was that RR and his staff haven't shown to be great developers of talent. Outside the DL the Jets team has had pitiful results over the past 5 seasons finding and developing young players.

Considering that this along with game planning are the 2 biggest roles a coach has, it should count as a pretty significant knock against him.
I don't know if that's entirely fair. They've done about what's expected with a lot of guys and a good chunk of players have exceeded expectations as well or become really solid role players out of nowhere, particularly on the defensive end (Harrison, McIntyre, Allen, Trufant, Lankster) but some offensive guys too (Kerley, Cumberland, Howard).

It's really tough to tell which decisions were Tannenbaum and which were Rex too. Did Tannenbaum say they had to keep McKnight over Woodhead because they traded up for McKnight in the 4th, or was that a Rex decision? Huge mistake, not sure who it gets attributed to.

Lots of those picks were straight busts too - athletes not football players. Ducasse was terrible for a staff that did a nice job developing Howard off the scrap heap. Hill looked outstanding in shorts and may put it together, but the one time I saw him live just looked unbelievably awkward and uncomfortable actually playing football. If Rex was making the decisions to draft those guys his talent evaluations sucked, but he should have had a GM who was going to override him there too. And now hopefully the Jets have a GM who's comfortable doing that regardless of who's coaching, instead of an accountant pretending he knows football.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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He has one at PSU, arguably a better one.
Who will also be in the NFL sooner rather than later.
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