Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > The Locker Room > Off Topic

Off Topic Almost Anything Goes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-29-2013, 09:31 AM    (permalink
CJSchneider
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 17,836
Reputation: 5018347
CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

There are two major points I'd like to address on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
If she was trained to use a gun, she may have been trained her mindset to procure it in a situation like that.
First, as Ness stated, when you own a gun, your mind set does change. That mind set changes how you act before, during, and after events such as these. Check into the correlation between females who have been trained to fire a hand-gun and the ones who have taken some additional training in self-defense. Check into the correlation between families who have been trained to fire a hand-gun and the number of families who, because of properly armed and active home alarm systems, have thwarted break-ins. There is a certain "I'm defending my castle" mentality that a high number of gun owners have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WMD View Post
I completely understand having a gun for protection, but some of you gun nuts drive me crazy. You have to be smart about it.
Do you think people buy a hand gun, set it on the mantle then never do anything else? Many of your so called "gun nuts" go to shooting ranges to be able to 1) hit targets 2) be able to properly handle the gun in the first place 3) teach their kids about proper weapon safety. Alas, like many other issues it seems easier to label defenders of a certain issue as "nuts".

Is having a hand-gun a guarantee? No, it isn't. However, personally, I do prefer the increase in odds it gives me.
__________________




2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack
CJSchneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,495
Reputation: 2124281
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

While I think it's very hard to separate gun statistics because a lot of gun owners live in areas with a higher incidence of crime, but without any controls you're far more likely to die of criminal homicide if you own a gun vs. not owning a gun. That number also dwarfs many times over self defense related deaths.

It's next to impossible to determine if in a vacuum a gun makes you safer. I think there are many exceptions, and I think someone like CJ would be one, but I think on average a gun does not improve the overall safety of an average person. Accidental shootings are so much higher than self-defense shootings, and in order to keep the gun safe it takes away a lot of the practicality of having a gun in the first place.

Last edited by cmarq83 : 06-29-2013 at 10:03 AM.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
CJSchneider
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 17,836
Reputation: 5018347
CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Actually, cities that have the strictest gun laws see more violent crime. Crazy, isn't it.
__________________




2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack
CJSchneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,495
Reputation: 2124281
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJSchneider View Post
Actually, cities that have the strictest gun laws see more violent crime. Crazy, isn't it.
And countries with the strictest gun laws have lower amounts of violent crime. When there are hundreds of millions of guns out there and readily available restricting guns in cities alnoe is fairly impractical. I'm not an advocate of strict gun control as we're way to far gone as a gun nation to make it actually work, but it's simply a logical fallacy to think that more guns makes us safer.

Last edited by cmarq83 : 06-29-2013 at 10:20 AM.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
CJSchneider
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 17,836
Reputation: 5018347
CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't like the term "accidental shooting" I prefer the term "being set up for failure". Responsible gun owners are not the exception - we are the standard. It is the irresponsible gun owners that yield far more accidents. To be honest, I'd be surprised if accidental discharges weren't equal to or less than self-defense discharges for that reason alone, actually.
__________________




2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack
CJSchneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
CJSchneider
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 17,836
Reputation: 5018347
CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
And countries with the strictest gun laws have lower amounts of violent crime. When there are hundreds of millions of guns out there and readily available restricting guns in cities alnoe is fairly impractical. I'm not an advocate of strict gun control as we're way to far gone as a gun nation to make it actually work, but it's simply a logical fallacy to think that more guns makes us safer.
I'm an advocate of fire-arm training, safety, and responsible ownership. More guns simply means more guns.
__________________




2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack
CJSchneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
josh07039
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: "Im against Picketing, but I don't know how to show it"-Mitch Hedberg
Posts: 4,244
Reputation: 267766
josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I know this might sound like a crazy idea, but I think when pro gun people talk about the second amendment and that we must strictly observe the intent of the founders, perhaps we should listen to them. tI think that gun owners should have an obligation to do some sort of periodic government run activity(training, testing, something). I mean, the second amendment says guns are for a well regulated militia, so perhaps we should modernize that idea and have some sort of "militia" requirement for gun owners.
josh07039 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
WCH
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,146
Reputation: 3620464
WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh07039 View Post
I know this might sound like a crazy idea, but I think when pro gun people talk about the second amendment and that we must strictly observe the intent of the founders, perhaps we should listen to them. tI think that gun owners should have an obligation to do some sort of periodic government run activity(training, testing, something). I mean, the second amendment says guns are for a well regulated militia, so perhaps we should modernize that idea and have some sort of "militia" requirement for gun owners.
I'm not a history expert, but I believe that you may have missed the point of the second amendment.
WCH is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
josh07039
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: "Im against Picketing, but I don't know how to show it"-Mitch Hedberg
Posts: 4,244
Reputation: 267766
josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.josh07039 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH View Post
I'm not a history expert, but I believe that you may have missed the point of the second amendment.
I didnt miss the point, i know what the point was, but the world has changed. Owning a gun isn't going to make you able to stop the government from violating your rights. I am very libertarian in my desires, but i am a pragmatist and I accept that the government needs to get involved in something like this or there is nothing that will be tried.
josh07039 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,495
Reputation: 2124281
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJSchneider View Post
I'm an advocate of fire-arm training, safety, and responsible ownership. More guns simply means more guns.
I personally have no problem with that. For obvious reasons I'd like to avoid this getting political, and avoid the topic of gun policy. However, I do fundamentally disagree that guns make the average person safer. Not everyone has the personal capacity, time, or rational decision making process to effectively utilize a gun for self-defense. Making a blanket statement like the woman in this scenario should have had a gun, and the outcome would have been better is meaningless. Everybody is different, and some people cannot and should not own a gun.

Statistically speaking gun owners are far more likely to die more criminal homicides than non-gun owners, and that number significantly dwarfs the number of people killed in self defense.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
CJSchneider
Team Leader
Icon
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 17,836
Reputation: 5018347
CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.CJSchneider is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

This may be were we agree to disagree then. I would be interested in comparing your "average person" definition to that of the "average firearm owner" and the "intelligent firearm owner".

This much I do know, your "average" criminal avoids killing anyone as they know the penalty is far greater. It takes a "sick and twisted" individual to purposefully murder someone with malicious intent. I also know that your "average" simple theft and B/E perpetrator will avoid or leave a home quicker if they find that person is a gun owner. (having heard it from many law enforcement sources as well as straight from the mouths of criminals during "scared straight" school visits)
__________________




2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack
CJSchneider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 11:56 AM    (permalink
Brothgar
Team Leader
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 11,389
Reputation: 2502635
Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I'm not talking about the second amendment here. For first it is against forum policy to do so and second I don't have any issue with it. I'm talking about the logistics of this situation. I'm a gun owner. When I was a teenager I must have shot hundreds of rounds through my lever action shotgun. It didn't prevent me from shaking like a leaf the first time I aimed it at a living thing and it wasn't even a human. So I reject the premise that sending hundreds of rounds at paper targets is going to give you the proper mind set to deal with the shock of getting your door kicked in and having a rather large man come at you. Now CJ you are a military vet IIRC so you have been trained to handle that. She is a suburban house wife. Secondly responsible gun owners keep their arms locked up which makes them even less useful in that situation.
__________________
Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
Brothgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
cmarq83
Pro Bowler
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,495
Reputation: 2124281
cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.cmarq83 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJSchneider View Post
This may be were we agree to disagree then. I would be interested in comparing your "average person" definition to that of the "average firearm owner" and the "intelligent firearm owner".

This much I do know, your "average" criminal avoids killing anyone as they know the penalty is far greater. It takes a "sick and twisted" individual to purposefully murder someone with malicious intent. I also know that your "average" simple theft and B/E perpetrator will avoid or leave a home quicker if they find that person is a gun owner. (having heard it from many law enforcement sources as well as straight from the mouths of criminals during "scared straight" school visits)
Therein lies the problem, if the average criminal would want to avoid killing anyone what is the use in having a gun in the first place? A gun just brings the potential of homicide into a situation where it wouldn't have called for it to begin with. A criminal doesn't have any knowledge about who owns a gun and who doesn't, so it's not likely to act as a deterrent. However, if a criminal has his own weapon, his instinct of self preservation is just as likely to cause him to utilize his own firearm as it is for the homeowner to. The only difference is in most cases the home invader has the element of surprise.

Plus even if somebody is a smart gun owner, the potential always exists that the home invader could be a better gun operator. For example your wife may know how to utilize a firearm, but if you (someone with extensive combat training) were the home invader, you'd kill her well before she could do anything with her weapon for your own self preservation. If you didn't have murderous intent to begin with the presence of a gun would have gotten your wife killed.
cmarq83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
Rabscuttle
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,513
Reputation: 198018
Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rabscuttle is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I don't believe America has a gun problem or a gun control problem. It has a violence problem.
Rabscuttle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
Brodeur
Brother Mouzone
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: It's clobberin' time.
Posts: 47,201
Reputation: 7061616
Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brodeur is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh07039 View Post
I didnt miss the point, i know what the point was, but the world has changed. Owning a gun isn't going to make you able to stop the government from violating your rights. I am very libertarian in my desires, but i am a pragmatist and I accept that the government needs to get involved in something like this or there is nothing that will be tried.
__________________


RIP TheManInBlack
Brodeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
jrdrylie
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 14,581
Reputation: 4702924
jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.jrdrylie is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh07039 View Post
I know this might sound like a crazy idea, but I think when pro gun people talk about the second amendment and that we must strictly observe the intent of the founders, perhaps we should listen to them. tI think that gun owners should have an obligation to do some sort of periodic government run activity(training, testing, something). I mean, the second amendment says guns are for a well regulated militia, so perhaps we should modernize that idea and have some sort of "militia" requirement for gun owners.
I think you should read the Federalist Papers and get a better understanding of the founding father's original intent. #23 talks about "The representatives of the people [betraying] their constituents, there is no resource left but in the exertion of the original right of self-defense." Also, at the time of the Revolution, regulated was defined as being well-trained (which is what CJ was talking about.

So participating in periodic Government-run activity would actually be the antithesis of the original intent.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidGold View Post
Bortlezzzzzzz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
jrdrylie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
vidae
SWDC Mafia
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Welcome back to my ranch ya turds.
Posts: 28,573
Reputation: 8575183
vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.vidae is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabscuttle View Post
I don't believe America has a gun problem or a gun control problem. It has a violence problem.
__________________


** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **
vidae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
Ness
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 21,447
Reputation: 2325463
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
While I think it's very hard to separate gun statistics because a lot of gun owners live in areas with a higher incidence of crime, but without any controls you're far more likely to die of criminal homicide if you own a gun vs. not owning a gun. That number also dwarfs many times over self defense related deaths.
How could one even quantify that though? Literally every situation is different when it comes to using a gun for protection.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
Ness
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 21,447
Reputation: 2325463
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brothgar View Post
I'm not talking about the second amendment here. For first it is against forum policy to do so and second I don't have any issue with it. I'm talking about the logistics of this situation. I'm a gun owner. When I was a teenager I must have shot hundreds of rounds through my lever action shotgun. It didn't prevent me from shaking like a leaf the first time I aimed it at a living thing and it wasn't even a human. So I reject the premise that sending hundreds of rounds at paper targets is going to give you the proper mind set to deal with the shock of getting your door kicked in and having a rather large man come at you. Now CJ you are a military vet IIRC so you have been trained to handle that. She is a suburban house wife. Secondly responsible gun owners keep their arms locked up which makes them even less useful in that situation.
You're only talking based on your own experience though. It could differ greatly for a lot of people that have had a good amount of gun training.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
Ness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 04:03 PM    (permalink
Ness
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: California
Posts: 21,447
Reputation: 2325463
Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Ness is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
Therein lies the problem, if the average criminal would want to avoid killing anyone what is the use in having a gun in the first place? A gun just brings the potential of homicide into a situation where it wouldn't have called for it to begin with. A criminal doesn't have any knowledge about who owns a gun and who doesn't, so it's not likely to act as a deterrent. However, if a criminal has his own weapon, his instinct of self preservation is just as likely to cause him to utilize his own firearm as it is for the homeowner to. The only difference is in most cases the home invader has the element of surprise.

Plus even if somebody is a smart gun owner, the potential always exists that the home invader could be a better gun operator. For example your wife may know how to utilize a firearm, but if you (someone with extensive combat training) were the home invader, you'd kill her well before she could do anything with her weapon for your own self preservation. If you didn't have murderous intent to begin with the presence of a gun would have gotten your wife killed.
Well that's the thing. As a home owner you simply don't know. You could live by the code that the average criminal doesn't have a gun or whatever, and maybe that helps you sleep at night, but when they're actually in your house is that train of thought really going to keep you self assured that you won't be harmed? Even if they don't have a firearm, they might still have intent to harm you or maybe even your family through other means. Especially if it's more than one person. When me and my roommates got robbed, and we were there the second time they tried to come back, we didn't know if they were armed or not.

What I think it really comes down to, is if someone is literally in your house and you don't know what their intentions are or if a confrontation if imminent, what is the best method for them to leave with you and your family unharmed for certain? Maybe it's an attack dog. Maybe it's a taser. For some it's hiding in your locked room and calling the police hoping they respond fast enough. For some other people it's a firearm. Maybe it's a combination of all three. And I can't blame them for feeling that way. At least in America. Any path you choose is going to have drawbacks, and not every contingency can be dealt with for sure, but being prepared and dedicated to making sure your "house protection plan" will help immensely no matter what it is.
__________________

"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borat View Post
Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

Last edited by Ness : 06-29-2013 at 04:21 PM.
Ness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 05:40 PM    (permalink
Rob S
Suck it Metsox
Legend
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: I'm a simple man. I like pretty, dark haired women and breakfast food
Posts: 24,947
Reputation: 4218066
Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Rob S is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

**** guns.
__________________
When I eat, it is the food that is scared.
Rob S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 05:46 PM    (permalink
Brothgar
Team Leader
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 11,389
Reputation: 2502635
Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Brothgar is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ness View Post
You're only talking based on your own experience though. It could differ greatly for a lot of people that have had a good amount of gun training.
Its not an isolated incident. Its actually very very common among hunters they even have a name for it called "buck fever" not everyone has that problem but plenty do despite their bravado but that isn't the point. Exactly what part of "good gun training" makes one ready for this situation? Lets be fair here the guy didn't break in and then make himself a sandwich in 10 seconds tops the guy is on top of her beating the crap out of her. Try this at home have a family member randomly set an alarm and when it goes off get to your weapon see how long it takes. Then take into account that the woman has children in the house. So now if your weapon isn't locked up like a responsible gun owner where are you hiding the weapon where the kids can't get it. Do you keep the weapon loaded? That's not very wise either. So what part of the training gets that woman to her weapon, from the couch while it is continually out of the hands of the children, all within 10 seconds. If she was upstairs when this happened it and the gun was in a locked drawer in her room then yes it would be of help but to assume that a gun would have benefited her in any way in this situation unless she was holding it at the time is wrong.
__________________
Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

Quote:
Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
Brothgar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
Borat
All-NFLDC
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The NFC West. Where people play defense.
Posts: 11,138
Reputation: 2502485
Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Borat is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

If you can't handle your pistol properly, you can always quickly switch to your katana or molotovs.
__________________
The Brian Sabean sig is no more. I disagreed with you on so many levels. And then you went out and built a dynasty. I am lame.
Borat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:03 PM    (permalink
nepg
Icon
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 16,611
Reputation: 2155248
nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.nepg is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Why are people talking about guns in this thread? What the **** would a gun have done in that situation? No sane person keeps a gun in the living room with a 3 year old in the house, and there was no way she could have gotten to a gun or other weapon the way he came into the house and bum rushed her.

This is a "lock the doors" and "have a big ******* dog" situation.

Quit being stupid, people.
__________________

Last edited by nepg : 06-29-2013 at 09:06 PM.
nepg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 09:04 PM    (permalink
WCH
All-Pro
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,146
Reputation: 3620464
WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.WCH is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJSchneider View Post
This may be were we agree to disagree then. I would be interested in comparing your "average person" definition to that of the "average firearm owner" and the "intelligent firearm owner".

This much I do know, your "average" criminal avoids killing anyone as they know the penalty is far greater. It takes a "sick and twisted" individual to purposefully murder someone with malicious intent. I also know that your "average" simple theft and B/E perpetrator will avoid or leave a home quicker if they find that person is a gun owner. (having heard it from many law enforcement sources as well as straight from the mouths of criminals during "scared straight" school visits)
Yeah, this is true. Lt. Col. Dave Grossman (now retired, he taught Psychology at West Point and Military Science at Arkansas State) did a lot of research in this area and he basically concluded that the military (not just our military, but any military) has to do a lot of operant conditioning to train soldiers to actually kill the enemy in close combat situations. He uses historical data (as best as we can get it, anyway) from a lot of wars as well as anecdotal evidence to show that most people will do things such as aim high, or run away before they'll actually shoot to kill. His military research led him to believe that it's only about 2-3% of humans who will happily kill other humans, which is pretty much in line with what mainstream psychologists have concluded in regards to the prevalence of true "sociopaths" in the general population.

In general, we don't kill each other. Most of us will go to great lengths to avoid it.

Also, nepg is right.
WCH is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.