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Old 07-11-2013, 08:24 AM    (permalink
princefielder28
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
If we did that with Drew Brees the last 2 years what would that tell us about him?
The stats tell the story with Brees and Drew's yards per attempt and completion percentage are far better than Stafford's. The big stats suggest Stafford is a terrific passer of the football and while he has had big yards, his yards per attempt and completion percentage have been sub par.

Not really sure what you were trying to get at with the question.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
Notredameleo
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The contract is on par for what QB's at his skill level are getting these days. Stafford has proven that he can put up some gaudy stats. It was a smart contract for both sides. The Lions lock him up for five years at a reasonable price, and Stafford is set up for another huge payday before his career is over. You can bet that if the Lions let him hit free agency in two years, he would easily get a 90 million dollar contract at the least, assuming there are no more injuries before then.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:49 AM    (permalink
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Worst contract going forward:

  • Stafford (5-year, $76.5 million)
  • Romo (6-year, $108 million)
  • Flacco (6-year, $120.6 million)

Forget what they've accomplished -so far- statistically individually and as a team..... project forward.

Who's contract is worse?

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2013/7...xtension-lions

I have no problem with Stafford's contract whatsoever.
Think about Flacco for a minute.
Until the magical carpet ride last post-season, aided by a terrible collapse by the Denver secondary and later gift Int from Manning, Flacco also had no rings yet... sure he had some nice playoff wins, but so did Mark Sanchez his first couple a seasons as well as a playoff win at Tom Brady.

Romo only has a single playoff win too.

Again, there's team, and there's individual.

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Old 07-11-2013, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Ignore the eye popping stats with him; he threw the ball 1,390 times over these last two seasons. His yards per attempt is nothing to get excited about either.
Passing all the time makes it more difficult to be an effective passer, not less difficult. That's why the only teams doing it are teams with good QBs.

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I think the problem is, teams are overpaying for quarterbacks. Every qb who is good is getting paid like the best qb in the league. Teams are so afraid of letting a qb walk in FA that they feel obligated to overpay for them.
It seems like QB salaries are still increasing at the same rate as they were under the old CBA. This obviously can't be a trend that can continue for much longer. Is there a certain salary point where having an elite QB becomes a detriment?
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Old 07-11-2013, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Passing all the time makes it more difficult to be an effective passer, not less difficult. That's why the only teams doing it are teams with good QBs.



It seems like QB salaries are still increasing at the same rate as they were under the old CBA. This obviously can't be a trend that can continue for much longer. Is there a certain salary point where having an elite QB becomes a detriment?
We're getting close to that point. And teams are doing it to themselves bc the demand for competent qb play is so high, that teams feel they have to pay premium dollar to achieve that which is not the right approach to take.

The real problem is every FA qb who is competent is demanding money designated exclusively for top 5 guys imo. And that's bringing the price up for everyone and destroying the market.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Worst contract going forward:

  • Stafford (5-year, $76.5 million)
  • Romo (6-year, $108 million)
  • Flacco (6-year, $120.6 million)

Forget what they've accomplished -so far- statistically individually and as a team..... project forward.

Who's contract is worse?

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2013/7...xtension-lions

I have no problem with Stafford's contract whatsoever.
Think about Flacco for a minute.
Until the magical carpet ride last post-season, aided by a terrible collapse by the Denver secondary and later gift Int from Manning, Flacco also had no rings yet... sure he had some nice playoff wins, but so did Mark Sanchez his first couple a seasons as well as a playoff win at Tom Brady.

Romo only has a single playoff win too.

Again, there's team, and there's individual.
Flacco's deal is only really a 3 year thing and then will be renegotiated. Stafford is still getting payed damn close in the guarenteed money. Tom Brady did a similar move and went after big guarenteed money as well. It doesnt have the inflated later years to pump up the perceived overall value of the contract but it still pays the QB a ton of cash.

Also I hate this idea that Flacco lucked into a superbowl win. The guy played lights out all post season and out played Manning and Brady head to head. Yeah the deep ball was a lucky break, but so was the Broncos getting 2 return touchdowns. Flacco is 9-4 in the post season and has played really well in the post season going back since 3 years ago against the Steelers.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Flacco's deal is only really a 3 year thing and then will be renegotiated. Stafford is still getting payed damn close in the guarenteed money. Tom Brady did a similar move and went after big guarenteed money as well. It doesnt have the inflated later years to pump up the perceived overall value of the contract but it still pays the QB a ton of cash.

Also I hate this idea that Flacco lucked into a superbowl win. The guy played lights out all post season and out played Manning and Brady head to head. Yeah the deep ball was a lucky break, but so was the Broncos getting 2 return touchdowns. Flacco is 9-4 in the post season and has played really well in the post season going back since 3 years ago against the Steelers.
He's getting the Eli treatment. Don't sweat it, at the end of the day they can't take his trophy away from him.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:10 PM    (permalink
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While the pay of the top half of starting QBs in the NFL have gone up, they are often one of the first players to restructure their contracts when needed.

The problem is what do you do with the young QBs who haven't proven anything but have shown enough that you don't want to let them walk. Someone would pay them if they hit the market, that's not even an option. You have to pay them.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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Well, I'll just say that many "analysts" in the national spotlight that have won championships have said more outlandish things.
Sometimes analysts say things they know is wrong to get their names in the paper. Call it the Skip Bayless effect. But it just doesn't feel that way with McNabb

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Rodgers and Flacco make the playoffs every year and have each won Super Bowls. Stafford has put up large numbers while throwing the ball around on a team that has struggled in the wins department. Not to mention that his mechanics are getting worse and I wouldn't label him as someone who is improving.

Making the playoffs is a team thing. Wins and losses are also a team thing. Personally I think Joe Flacco is going to prove that next season and Philip Rivers has already proven it before. Signing him to what will end up being a discounted contract by is smart forward thinking by the Lions. You don't pay a player for what he has done you pay him for what you think he's going to do.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I read somewhere that Stafford is 1-22 against teams with winning records. If that's true, that's a terrible statistic.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I don't know but when I watch Stafford play quarterback something seems off. It seems like most of the stats he gets are from lucky plays, Calvin Johnson or yardage in garbage time against prevent defense. He has a ridiculous arm so he can get away with things but he just doesn't seem to have "it" whatever that means. I could be wrong that is just my opinion.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Stafford will be fine, i think he's a franchise qb. I just think he needs to do a better job of scanning the field. He locked into Calvin way too much last year and had players open that he didn't throw to.

He's gotta learn to take what's given to him instead of trying to force it.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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I think the problem is, teams are overpaying for quarterbacks. Every qb who is good is getting paid like the best qb in the league. Teams are so afraid of letting a qb walk in FA that they feel obligated to overpay for them.

Tony Romo is a perfect example. The man got paid Flacco money and has 1 playoff win. Why did Dallas pay him so much? The fear of the unknown. They're afraid to see what would happen if they let him walk and had no quarterback. So that fear causes them to overpay.

Dallas isn't the only team guilty of this. Most if not all teams are. It's a problem that needs to be identified by teams.

I'm waiting to see that one team who has the guts to say, you know what, you're solid, and we win with you, but you're worth X amount of dollars, and if you want more than we're ok with you hitting FA. We'll rebuild and draft a qb.

One team is going to be bold enough to do this eventually, and it's going to be the right decision.
Why would you throw in the towel on Romo? He still has enough to win. If you quit on him now you not only have to find another QB but rebuild the rest of the team. The process takes to long. Now if it were a Josh Freeman that would be different and of course at the extreme Mark Sanchez who should have been gone a long time ago.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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It still amazes me that a Titan disciple is the one making the Lions into the leader in passing O and one of the poorest D's in the NFL
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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1st - Trindon Holliday's returns were not "lucky", he flat out burned everyone.... He was arguably the best return man in the NFL last year and stepped up in the biggest game of the year for the Broncos.


but back to the point



I think Stafford is a very good young QB, he has played on TERRIBLE teams that are on the right track in terms of talent...but their D is bad, Suh didnt really show up and Fairley was hurt. The offense should be much improved with the addition of Reggie Bush, not in the sense of a pure HB but he will give Stafford another dangerous weapon and help cut back on the forcing it to Calvin out of shear desperation because no one else was capable of helping Stafford and Calvin last year.





BUT no way shape of form should Flacco and Romo be making as much as they are, I mean Flacco has the SB that helped him get crazy money but Romo is mediocre he hasnt been able to win games for the Cowboys while at the helm...

But in the end i agree with what has been stated in terms of fear of the unknown being the driving force behind MEGA contracts to decent QBs.
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Old 07-11-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Why would you throw in the towel on Romo? He still has enough to win. If you quit on him now you not only have to find another QB but rebuild the rest of the team. The process takes to long. Now if it were a Josh Freeman that would be different and of course at the extreme Mark Sanchez who should have been gone a long time ago.
I wouldn't throw in the towel on Romo. But I also feel that they overpaid. They shouldn't have to make Romo the richest or close to the richest qb in the league with his contract. What did he accomplish to deserve such merit?

You give him a fair contract, and if he doesn't like it and leaves, then you move on. But you can't be so afraid of losing him that you overpay for him.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Teams are so afraid of losing their known commodities at qb that they rather overpay him then lose him. And that's not smart business.
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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I don't see DM as a arse, but more so as a very insecure person. The type of person that needs to knock others to raise himself up. I believe and it's my opinion that he is his # 1 fan. While some players who are good say, "I will let others defer to how good I was", McNabb is the type that will hype himself up if given a chance. He will also put others down to make himself look better.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2013/0...-hall-of-fame/

Now, I think he has a good career, and will be a borderline HOFer. I think his numbers get him easily into the conversation, but he never won anything. He made it there and by TO's accounts choked, looked sick. I think he said McNabb pulled a Willie Beamen and yacked.


Like I said though, I don't see DM as a bad person, but instead a highly insecure guy. I expect more comments from him when he gets the chance especially if the QB isn't a top flight QB. I can see him picking on newer to mid level QBs when given the chance.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:25 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't throw in the towel on Romo. But I also feel that they overpaid. They shouldn't have to make Romo the richest or close to the richest qb in the league with his contract. What did he accomplish to deserve such merit?

You give him a fair contract, and if he doesn't like it and leaves, then you move on. But you can't be so afraid of losing him that you overpay for him.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Teams are so afraid of losing their known commodities at qb that they rather overpay him then lose him. And that's not smart business.
There are still big ramifications if you just let a Romo walk especially to another team in the division. If he were to leave the cowboys and go to the eagles that would make them an instant division contender and the cowboys in the basement of the division for a while unless they stumble onto an Andrew Luck or RG3. It is the same as tanking you don't know what you are going to get. If Flacco can win a super bowl you might as well pay Romo.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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at least hes genuine
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Old 07-11-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't throw in the towel on Romo. But I also feel that they overpaid. They shouldn't have to make Romo the richest or close to the richest qb in the league with his contract. What did he accomplish to deserve such merit?

You give him a fair contract, and if he doesn't like it and leaves, then you move on. But you can't be so afraid of losing him that you overpay for him.

That's the point I'm trying to make. Teams are so afraid of losing their known commodities at qb that they rather overpay him then lose him. And that's not smart business.
Yeah well, there isn't really anything you can do as a ball club. Find even a decent quarterback is difficult to find. As long as Romo is the quarterback, the Cowboys have a good chance to win any single game. Personally I also don't believe you need to overspend, but the alternative could be bad. Really bad. It may take years and years and years to find just another decent starter. Look at the Browns. They're still looking. Might just have to be a case of taking the less of two evils.
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Old 07-12-2013, 07:38 AM    (permalink
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I think quarterbacks are coming out of college more developed and pro ready than ever before. The league is qb friendly now, and I think overall scouts have done a much better job of identifying qb prospects than in the past.

Does losing Romo really hurt them that much? They haven't won with him anyway. 1 playoff win in what, 7 years? Countless number of choke jobs in the biggest moment of the season. I used to be a strong advocate of Romo, but I've been waiting for him to turn the corner for 3 years now and it just isn't happening.

And on top of that, the Cowboys have stated they want to see more effort and leadership out of the guy in the offseason, they want to see him fully committed to football.

Ok? So why did you pay him all that money then?

What has Romo really done to deserve that salary? That's the thing I don't get. Are they really that much worse without him? If they let him go and had 1 or 2 horrible seasons before drafting another qb, would that really be that terrible of an idea?

They were thinking about drafting Cam Newton 2 years ago. So they clearly weren't sold on Romo this whole time.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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I know this is a huge generalization but Romo is just that "Guy"... he is good im not trying to say he is Blaine Gabbert or anything but he just doesnt have it....I mean for instance he is statistically the best QB in cowboys history, #5 all time passer rating but he just doesnt have it.


He puts up all the numbers, but year in and year out the Cowboys usually field a good or atleast solid squad and while under Romo they have yet to yield results... You play to win, and if you constantly are spending money to pick up guys like Jerry Jones does and you still are mediocre at best you have to sit back and re-evaluate.... NOT PAY THE GUY A BOAT LOAD OF MONEY.


I mean with the rules in today's nfl, with the way college QBs come in more polished you dont have to be stuck to a QB that just have "it"


*He is 55-38 but only 1 play off win.

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Old 07-12-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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I know this is a huge generalization but Romo is just that "Guy"... he is good im not trying to say he is Blaine Gabbert or anything but he just doesnt have it....I mean for instance he is statistically the best QB in cowboys history, #5 all time passer rating but he just doesnt have it.


He puts up all the numbers, but year in and year out the Cowboys usually field a good or atleast solid squad and while under Romo they have yet to yield results... You play to win, and if you constantly are spending money to pick up guys like Jerry Jones does and you still are mediocre at best you have to sit back and re-evaluate.... NOT PAY THE GUY A BOAT LOAD OF MONEY.


I mean with the rules in today's nfl, with the way college QBs come in more polished you dont have to be stuck to a QB that just have "it"


*He is 55-38 but only 1 play off win.
Nobody has "it" until they have it. Peyton had everything but "it" until he won one.

He will continue to be knocked until he wins in the playoffs, as will matt ryan, and a dozen other QBs
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:29 AM    (permalink
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Nobody has "it" until they have it. Peyton had everything but "it" until he won one.

He will continue to be knocked until he wins in the playoffs, as will matt ryan, and a dozen other QBs
And rightfully so. At the end of the day, you root for victories, not statistics. And I know it's a team sport, but it's a qb driven league.

I mean, just look at the final game vs the Redskins. 3 INTs. And that final INT he threw, how many of us DIDN'T see that one coming?

That's where we're at with Romo right now. We're expecting him to fail at the most critical moment. How do you pay that a boatload of money? I just don't understand it.

He doesn't even make the playoffs consistently. So he's inconsistent in making the playoffs, and when he does, he has 1 playoff win to his name.

In 7 years.

That doesn't warrant the contract he got. It just doesn't.
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Old 07-12-2013, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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"It" in the terms im talking about means drive the will not to loose... for instance when you throw on tape of Brady, Manning, Luck, Wilson, Rodgers.... when any of those guys are down in the 4th quarter you can never count them out.

Romo on the other hand might have had a great 3 quarters and some how find a way to lose a game in the 4th....


THAT IS "IT" im not talking about rings, im talking about that sense of you can never count the guy out when he is under center.
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