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Old 08-01-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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Originally Posted by BallerT1215 View Post
I don't think Shannon Sharpe is that far behind him personally.
youre joking right.

Tony Gonzalez is to tight ends what Jerry Rice is to wide receivers. I really dont see how it can be debated.
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Old 08-01-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Eazy Picks View Post
youre joking right.

Tony Gonzalez is to tight ends what Jerry Rice is to wide receivers. I really dont see how it can be debated.
No joke. Gonzo is #1 but I don't think he is far out ahead of Sharpe.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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I still think Sharp was better.The two are neck and neck anyway you want to look at it.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't think this one is that close. I'd take Julio and Roddy over just about any receiver combo over the last decade.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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Fully confident we're talking about the Packers group after this year. #preseasonboner
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Old 08-01-2013, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Wes Welker is irrelevant in this discussion. Harry Douglas can do everything Welker can do, and more. Welker won't reach 1,000 yards this year.

I'd take Jones/White over Thomas/Decker, easily.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:28 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Shannon Sharpe is that far behind him personally.
As a receiver, no. Heck, I'd take Sharpe over Gonzalez as a pure receiver.

Gonzalez is more complete, though.
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Old 08-02-2013, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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How about 15,000 receiving yards and 100+ tds v 10,000 yards and 62 TDs. And Tony is by far the better blocker. Its not even close. The only thing Shannon has on him is rings and theres really no way of blaming that on Tony.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:23 AM    (permalink
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The stats don't sway my opinion between them. Sharpe finished with all the stats when he retired and Tony will too after a more offensive era of football. I don't want to take away anything from Gonzalez but I feel he was funneled a lot of balls in KC because of a lack of other viable passing options. Tony G was a better redzone target because of his much larger stature.

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Wes Welker is irrelevant in this discussion. Harry Douglas can do everything Welker can do, and more. Welker won't reach 1,000 yards this year.
Welker's numbers are very much a product of the system, but he is going to be dynamite for Manning this year. A reliable slot target to move the chains will really be a great piece for a chess master like Manning.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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The stats don't sway my opinion between them. Sharpe finished with all the stats when he retired and Tony will too after a more offensive era of football. I don't want to take away anything from Gonzalez but I feel he was funneled a lot of balls in KC because of a lack of other viable passing options. Tony G was a better redzone target because of his much larger stature.


Welker's numbers are very much a product of the system, but he is going to be dynamite for Manning this year. A reliable slot target to move the chains will really be a great piece for a chess master like Manning.
cmon now, they played in overlapping eras. Tonys numbers are better because he, like Jerry Rice, was the model of consistency. And that in itself is why there is no contest when you compare Jerry Rice to someone like Randy Moss. And the same goes for Tony v Sharpe. And the fact that Tony was 6 foot 7 and one of the best red-zone targets in the history of the game is not something to bag on him for, its part of why he is such a special player. And its really not fair to hold his poor supporting cast for so many years against him. He has never been anything but a hard worker, and an exemplary leader, the chiefs woes arent on him, and the thing about him getting thrown the ball a lot goes both ways, because it also means he was targeted more by defenses and had to overcome a lot of double teams.

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Old 08-02-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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He's not only the GOAT TE, but the gap between him and the #2 guy is just huge at this point.
Until Witten retires :) No but seriously, I hope Witten has that type of longevity to the back end of his career. If he can average 80/800 for 5 more years he would be very close to passing Gonzalez in receptions and yardage. TD's he's obviously getting blown out of the water, and for what it's worth Tony G looks more explosive at 35 then Witten does at 30. But he never misses a game, if he can just keep being a chain mover he's got a shot to put himself up there in the ranks.


Their receptions and yardage totals through age 30 are nearly identical. About 10 catches apart and 200 yards apart.
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Old 08-02-2013, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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I gotta go with the Falcons. Julio is just unfair.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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I still think Sharp was better.The two are neck and neck anyway you want to look at it.
Agreed. Sharpe didn't stick around and still produce for as long as Tony G looks like he's going to, but while he played he at a level where you really can't make a definitive case either way.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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And just because it's time to "my team" it up. Eli gets to throw to Nicks, Cruz and Randle on the outside, with Wilson coming out of the backfield. Toss in Myers or Robinson at TE and this is the best set of weapons we've given Eli yet. Just filthy.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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I gotta go with the Falcons. Julio is just unfair.
I remember when I would say AJG vs Julio was a good debate and one that would constantly be happening and people just laughed it off as if AJG was in some stratosphere Julio was unable to get to. Wrong. Wonder if all those people are still sticking by those comments.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Yeah. That 1500 yards and 1 TD...

The answer is Falcons. White and Jones are the best 1,2 combo in the NFL.
he'll eat away at defenses while decker and thomas do their thing on the outside.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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I remember when I would say AJG vs Julio was a good debate and one that would constantly be happening and people just laughed it off as if AJG was in some stratosphere Julio was unable to get to. Wrong. Wonder if all those people are still sticking by those comments.
Eh, the talent's always been comparable, but AJ was just so much safer a pick that I think there was a sizeable gap between them as prospects. *shrug*
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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I remember when I would say AJG vs Julio was a good debate and one that would constantly be happening and people just laughed it off as if AJG was in some stratosphere Julio was unable to get to. Wrong. Wonder if all those people are still sticking by those comments.
It's basically this generation's Moss vs TO. We'll talk about these 2 for the next 10 years.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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This one, ON PAPER, could be really sexy...

Stevie Johnson
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Chris Gragg
You have some serious question marks in Rogers and Goodwin. After watching "Game Changers" this offseason I came away just praying that my Rams wouldn't touch Rogers with a ten foot pole. He obviously didn't have his head on straight, he was more worried about having the hottest bling and the coolest cleats than he was being a player. If I'm wrong I will own it completely, but I have zero confidence that he will do anything substantial in the NFL.

Goodwin is special fast, and will pretty much always be the fastest player on the field. From what I saw of him in his all-star game (can't remember if it was the Senior Bowl or the Shrine Game) he was all track star and no football player. Even with his fantastic speed he has a difficult time getting open and does not create separation. He is not a natural pass-catcher and has questionable hands. More than anything, he is horrible at tracking the ball downfield and has terrible field awareness. There is a reason why a guy with his physical ability puts up 26/340/3 in college and isn't even the best kick returner on his team. In this case, I don't believe it was simply because he wasn't a "good fit."

Woods I think will be a very dependable receiver and will have a very nice NFL career.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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You have some serious question marks in Rogers and Goodwin. After watching "Game Changers" this offseason I came away just praying that my Rams wouldn't touch Rogers with a ten foot pole. He obviously didn't have his head on straight, he was more worried about having the hottest bling and the coolest cleats than he was being a player. If I'm wrong I will own it completely, but I have zero confidence that he will do anything substantial in the NFL.

Goodwin is special fast, and will pretty much always be the fastest player on the field. From what I saw of him in his all-star game (can't remember if it was the Senior Bowl or the Shrine Game) he was all track star and no football player. Even with his fantastic speed he has a difficult time getting open and does not create separation. He is not a natural pass-catcher and has questionable hands. More than anything, he is horrible at tracking the ball downfield and has terrible field awareness. There is a reason why a guy with his physical ability puts up 26/340/3 in college and isn't even the best kick returner on his team. In this case, I don't believe it was simply because he wasn't a "good fit."

Woods I think will be a very dependable receiver and will have a very nice NFL career.
To be fair, I had similar concerns about Damontre Moore after game changers, but after he fell to the 3rd round I thought that was a steal.

And he's been killing it in camp so far, for what it's worth. I know that doesn't mean much but it's a positive sign.
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Old 08-02-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
You have some serious question marks in Rogers and Goodwin. After watching "Game Changers" this offseason I came away just praying that my Rams wouldn't touch Rogers with a ten foot pole. He obviously didn't have his head on straight, he was more worried about having the hottest bling and the coolest cleats than he was being a player. If I'm wrong I will own it completely, but I have zero confidence that he will do anything substantial in the NFL.

Goodwin is special fast, and will pretty much always be the fastest player on the field. From what I saw of him in his all-star game (can't remember if it was the Senior Bowl or the Shrine Game) he was all track star and no football player. Even with his fantastic speed he has a difficult time getting open and does not create separation. He is not a natural pass-catcher and has questionable hands. More than anything, he is horrible at tracking the ball downfield and has terrible field awareness. There is a reason why a guy with his physical ability puts up 26/340/3 in college and isn't even the best kick returner on his team. In this case, I don't believe it was simply because he wasn't a "good fit."

Woods I think will be a very dependable receiver and will have a very nice NFL career.
Of course. That's why I said "could" and "on paper."

But as far as the Game-Changers and "being concerned about "bling"... Cordarrelle Patterson was saying many of the same things. Rogers being a headcase is far more than him wanting material things.

It's VERY possible the Bills WR core yields nothing. I just happen to love the potential based upon their ability, nothing else.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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From what I saw of him in his all-star game (can't remember if it was the Senior Bowl or the Shrine Game) he was all track star and no football player. Even with his fantastic speed he has a difficult time getting open and does not create separation. He is not a natural pass-catcher and has questionable hands. More than anything, he is horrible at tracking the ball downfield and has terrible field awareness. There is a reason why a guy with his physical ability puts up 26/340/3 in college and isn't even the best kick returner on his team. In this case, I don't believe it was simply because he wasn't a "good fit".

All this is pretty much untrue and way off base, and while I wasn't personally there I heard absolutely the opposite from everyone:


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On the first day of 2013 Senior Bowl practice, the former Longhorn who drew most of the attention was defensive end Alex Okafor, but over the last two days, wide receiver Marquise Goodwin has taken the starring role and is apparently shooting up draftboards -- mock draft boards, at least.

A report from SB Nation's own Louis Bien cited a unanimous consensus among observers that Goodwin had a fantastic day on Wednesday and compared him to another underutilized player from the 2011 draft who shot up draft boards and had a strong rookie season in Bills wide receiver TJ Graham.

The knowledge of Goodwin's sub10.4 100m speed has always been and scouts picked up on it a few times this season when Goodwin was actually able to get the ball, find a seam, and hit the afterburners to smoke any and all defenders in the immediate vicinity.


I was more impressed Wednesday with his ability to win at the line of scrimmage vs. press-coverage. Very athletic player when you watch him win on the release and get into the route stem.




That from the National Football Post and NFL draft analyst Matt Miller from Bleacher Report agrees that Goodwin has been catching the ball consistently and running strong enough routes to convince observers that he's more than just a one-dimensional speed merchant.
http://www.burntorangenation.com/foo...horns-football


You also have to dig deeper then just looking at his production and automatically assuming it means a guy just can't play. This sums it up a bit:


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In fact, Goodwin touched the ball only 33 times on offense all season for Texas, including only 13 carries, almost a quarter of which came against Oklahoma State. After the Cowboys overplayed the jet sweep, the Olympic long jumper only had one carry in the next three-plus games until Texas needed him to save them against Kansas.

And save them Goodwin did, helping ignite the first touchdown drive under Case McCoy with a 41-yard catch-and-run on the push-pass jet sweep and then the finishing touchdown run on the more conventional speed sweep.

In games against Ole Miss and Oregon State, the speedster had four touches for 182 yards and two touchdowns in the former and five touches for 132 yards and another two touchdowns against Oregon State, including the game-winner from David Ash on a play that Major Applewhite had run earlier in the game. Those five opportunities tied for the second-highest total that Goodwin had all season.

The lack of spring and summer practices for Goodwin, and some fall practices, as well, hurt him getting on the same page with David Ash and the quarterback issues in 2011 and at times in 2012 didn't help either.

Still, this writer happens to belong in the camp that believes that are no excuses for not getting your most dynamic players the ball. It was one that Urban Meyer learned as an assistant coach at Notre Dame when he saw the top playmaker for the Irish crying after the game when he was unable to help his team because he didn't get the ball. It changed Meyer, and he's never had those issues, even when he had all the speed talent in Florida that didn't fit in conventional molds.

Kinda hard to be productive when you don't get the ball right? He was criminally under utilized, and all off-season all he did was wake people up that he actually can play football and isn't just a track star. He had scouts watching him through the off-season realizing this and saying he was a second round pick, and not because of his 40 time.


I really have no clue where you got those assumptions of him because all of them are wrong.
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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I remember when I would say AJG vs Julio was a good debate and one that would constantly be happening and people just laughed it off as if AJG was in some stratosphere Julio was unable to get to. Wrong. Wonder if all those people are still sticking by those comments.
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...is+julio+jones

Julio Jones fanboy here
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Old 08-02-2013, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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I remember when I would say AJG vs Julio was a good debate and one that would constantly be happening and people just laughed it off as if AJG was in some stratosphere Julio was unable to get to. Wrong. Wonder if all those people are still sticking by those comments.
The level of production Julio is trying to get to, AJ has already achieved in his first few seasons.....with no Roddy White on the other side....and with an inexperienced QB instead of Matt Ryan.....just saying.
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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To be fair, I had similar concerns about Damontre Moore after game changers, but after he fell to the 3rd round I thought that was a steal.

And he's been killing it in camp so far, for what it's worth. I know that doesn't mean much but it's a positive sign.
I just watched that Game Changers, and I have to agree about Moore...next to Okafor he really comes across as a dumb player. It's total speculation here, but the difference may be that he is a hard worker who was very productive. I don't think anyone ever accused Rogers of either of those things.
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