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Old 08-04-2013, 11:13 PM    (permalink
WCH
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There is a combine, and not only are players measured in shoes (as Funbuncher pointed out) but the verticals actually aren't as impressive as the NFL's skill position players. I think the average standing vertical is somewhere around 28.5" at the NBA Combine.

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Old 08-04-2013, 11:19 PM    (permalink
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There is a combine, and not only are players measured in shoes (as Funbuncher pointed out) but the verticals actually aren't as impressive as the NFL's skill position players. I think the average standing vertical is somewhere around 28.5" at the NBA Combine.
Wow, that is very surprising to me. I have heard of some NBA players with verticals close to 50". Maybe just the select few.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:51 AM    (permalink
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I think we already have 'Lebron James' in the NFL, and his name is Jimmy Graham.
I know NFL fans recognize that Graham is a unique athlete for the TE position, but I think we generally underestimate how really gifted athletically he is.

His b-ball skills aren't at Lebron James' level, but I'd bet in any physical tests they measure roughly the same.
Graham ran a low 4.5 at the combine and jumped a 38.5 vert. I don't think Lebron beats those numbers.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
Wow, that is very surprising to me. I have heard of some NBA players with verticals close to 50". Maybe just the select few.
NBA heights (sample count) - Average standing reach (rounded up)
6'4 (24) - 8'5
6'6 (24) - 8'8
6'8.5 (29) - 8'9

Basketball hoop @ 10'.

There really is no driving factor behind getting a vertical higher than 28.5" because a hoop is stationary. It's not like throwing a Hail Mary pass into a crowded area and expecting someone to get the ball with a game on the line.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:05 AM    (permalink
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I think we already have 'Lebron James' in the NFL, and his name is Jimmy Graham.
I know NFL fans recognize that Graham is a unique athlete for the TE position, but I think we generally underestimate how really gifted athletically he is.

His b-ball skills aren't at Lebron James' level, but I'd bet in any physical tests they measure roughly the same.
Graham ran a low 4.5 at the combine and jumped a 38.5 vert. I don't think Lebron beats those numbers.
Who knows what The King's combine numbers would be but you do realize that if you put them both on the court together, Jimmy would look like a pretty marginal athlete compared to LeBron.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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Wow, that is very surprising to me. I have heard of some NBA players with verticals close to 50". Maybe just the select few.
Myths. Not even Jordan had that kind of hops. Closest to that number maybe Gerald Green or James White, who both suck.
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Old 08-05-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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Who knows what The King's combine numbers would be but you do realize that if you put them both on the court together, Jimmy would look like a pretty marginal athlete compared to LeBron.
Meh. He'd look like a marginal basketball player which he was. But Graham was always a great run and jump athlete at Miami. The real difference is in skill, not physical ability IMO.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Lebron as a high school senior was better at basketball than Graham was as a college senior.
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:23 PM    (permalink
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Myths. Not even Jordan had that kind of hops. Closest to that number maybe Gerald Green or James White, who both suck.
I thought Jordan's vertical was 48"? And Carters was as well?
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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It's workout time for lottery teams, and the stories of draft-prospect magic are beginning to trickle in. Take, for instance, DJ Stephens of the University of Memphis, who recorded a 46-inch vertical, according to Chad Ford. Performed while working out for the Brooklyn Nets, the leap is the highest ever recorded by the NBA.
Vince was supposedly 43 inch. Lebron 44 inch. Jordan's reportedly 48 inches (article above had a 44 inch figure for Jordan).

The above quote though is the "NBA accepted" highest vertical. Even with those vertical's though Dwight Howard with a 39.5 vert is absolutely nightmarish. People that big shouldn't be able to jump that high.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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I remember a player from when I was a kid named David Thompson, "Skywalker," who supposedly had a 44" vertical and could jump out of the gym. I guess I just figured that those myths were true because athletes should only be getting better as time goes on. Maybe he was just a complete freak of nature.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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I thought Jordan's vertical was 48"? And Carters was as well?
That's the rumor. I think that's a bit exaggerated though.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:06 PM    (permalink
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I never understood why people talked about this. Practice squads and depth chart third/fourth strings are LOADED with some of the best athletes in the country. We've got 375 pound dudes doing backflips like gymnasts and 300 pound guys who can jump out of swimming pools; doesn't mean they don't suck at football. That would probably be Lebron. He'd likely just play special teams.
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Old 08-06-2013, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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Athletically, Calvin Johnson blows NBA athletes out of the water. The 42.5" standing vertical he had at is 2.5" higher than the next highest standing vertical in DraftExpress.com's measurements database. Now a lot of top NBA players don't test (LeBron James, for example), but that's a database that goes back 10+ years. There's only 8 max verticals (with a step) in the database that top the 42.5" vert that Megatron had at his pro day, too.

On the flip side, those guys at the top of the vertical listing aren't exactly the best basketball players. Obviously a high skill level is required to play basketball. The guy who tops the database is actually right out of college, D.J. Stephens of Memphis - who's half an inch shorter than Calvin Johnson at 6'4.5 and about 40 pounds lighter than when CJ when he entered the league. He had a no step vert of 40" and a max vert of 46", reasonably impressive, but he's got next to no skill level and probably won't even stick on a roster this season. Arguably even more than in football, being a special athlete alone won't cut it if you want to be an NBA player.

Also as mentioned, NFL athletes generally are more explosive than NBA athletes. From a vertical standpoint, obviously NBA players are taller. But also, basketball players need to have more endurance than football players because they're running for a much longer time period. Because of this, football players can train more for explosiveness and have those more impressive measurements.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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I never understood why people talked about this. Practice squads and depth chart third/fourth strings are LOADED with some of the best athletes in the country. We've got 375 pound dudes doing backflips like gymnasts and 300 pound guys who can jump out of swimming pools; doesn't mean they don't suck at football. That would probably be Lebron. He'd likely just play special teams.
This seems like believing what you want to believe. Lebron is inarguably the best player in the world at a game played by millions of people all over the planet. He's highly gifted and highly intelligent. I have a hard time believing he'd be a practice squad player in a game where guys have literally gone from being solid college basketball players to All-Pros in the NFL.

People arguing that Lebron is not a special athlete in NFL terms are just being defensive because they like football better than basketball.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Jimmy Graham is not on LeBron's level athletically. Additionally, as stated previously, LeBron was a better ball player at age 16 than Graham was as a senior. And it's not even a comparison. LeBron could play about any position in the NFL. He's the best athlete on the planet.

Sounds absurd but it's all true.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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Id say the best basketball player in the NFL is Terrell Pryor. Guy was INSANE in high school, probably should have opted for basketball.

Hard to tell how a guy like calvin would be, athletically he has the tools but you have to judge him on more than that
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Jimmy Graham is not on LeBron's level athletically. Additionally, as stated previously, LeBron was a better ball player at age 16 than Graham was as a senior. And it's not even a comparison. LeBron could play about any position in the NFL. He's the best athlete on the planet.

Sounds absurd but it's all true.
Jimmy Graham is a similar athlete to Lebron, I'm not talking about skill level.
Straight line speed, size and jumping ability for both these guys is roughly the same.

For instance there are guys who are similar to Adrian Peterson's size, strength, speed and jumping ability who couldn't play RB if you put a gun to their head.

There's a difference between being a good pure athlete and being skilled in a particular sport.
I had this convo the other day about Skins RB Alfred Morris; good RB but not a gifted athlete at the position.

Lebron and Jimmy Graham IMO are very similar athletic specimens.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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Can Calvin dribble a basketball?

No?

Ok then he'd suck at basketball. Athleticism means nothing in basketball without skill to go with it.

Carmelo Anthony has like a 10 inch vertical and he's pretty good. Steve Nash has 2 left legs and he's pretty good.

Similarly James White can jump out of the gym and he sucks.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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Jimmy Graham is a similar athlete to Lebron, I'm not talking about skill level.
Straight line speed, size and jumping ability for both these guys is roughly the same.

For instance there are guys who are similar to Adrian Peterson's size, strength, speed and jumping ability who couldn't play RB if you put a gun to their head.

There's a difference between being a good pure athlete and being skilled in a particular sport.
I had this convo the other day about Skins RB Alfred Morris; good RB but not a gifted athlete at the position.

Lebron and Jimmy Graham IMO are very similar athletic specimens.
Jimmy Graham and Lebron James are not even in the same world as an athlete, not even remotely close. I agree with you it takes a very particular set of skills like liam neeson in taken, but athletically graham is very gifted but lebron takes gifted to an entirely new level
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Jimmy Graham and Lebron James are not even in the same world as an athlete, not even remotely close. I agree with you it takes a very particular set of skills like liam neeson in taken, but athletically graham is very gifted but lebron takes gifted to an entirely new level
WHat's Lebron's standing vert??
How fast do you think he can run the 40??

At 6'6/260#, Jimmy Graham ran a 4.53, had a 1.53 ten yard split and a 38.5 inch vert.
I have a hard time believing James dwarfs those numbers.

For size/speed/explosiveness, Graham matches up with anyone on most athletic tests.

Most NBA players get their vert tested with that one-step jump. NFL prospects jump from a standing flatfooted position.

His raw athleticism is really only part of the reason why James is so dominant in the NBA.
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
WHat's Lebron's standing vert??
How fast do you think he can run the 40??

At 6'6/260#, Jimmy Graham ran a 4.53, had a 1.53 ten yard split and a 38.5 inch vert.
I have a hard time believing James dwarfs those numbers.

For size/speed/explosiveness, Graham matches up with anyone on most athletic tests.

Most NBA players get their vert tested with that one-step jump. NFL prospects jump from a standing flatfooted position.

His raw athleticism is really only part of the reason why James is so dominant in the NBA.
Lebron is also bigger, heavier, probably just as fast, and wayyyyyy stronger

It is silly to think lebron couldnt have played football if he wanted to dedicate the time he did to basketball. I understand skills have everything to do with it as much as the athleticism, i just have a hard time putting graham in that caliber of athlete with lebron
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Old 08-07-2013, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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I don't know about Lebron being heavier. Jimmy Graham's weight in at 260 at the combine. Lebron has been listed between 240 and 250 his entire career. As far as height goes, we're probably talking about at most an inch. The height difference is also smaller than most people realize, because the NBA inflates their players heights (people romanticize "tall" guys playing basketball, and the NBA responds accordingly). Lebron is probably "only" about 6'7" which makes him about an inch taller than Graham. Nothing to write home about.

As for NFL skill players having higher average verticals, it's not surprising when you consider that the VJ is known to correlate to the Squat and the Olympic lifts. Basically, stronger guys have the potential to jump higher. Powerlifters and bodybuilders might not do the other things (overspeed training, plyometrics, etc) to maximize their leaping potential, but football players definitely do. There are other factors in play, but you'll generally see that athletes who jump high can also squat heavy weights.

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Old 08-07-2013, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Well i stand corrected, i thought he was playing heavier than that. However, i do believe he is significantly stronger and i do believe that if he were playing football he could very comfortably play in the 275-280

Im not really saying graham is a slouch, i just dont think hes close to james
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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I agree. James is a beast and he might be getting a bit old by NFL standards (at least, for a rookie), but I think he could have been an All-Pro TE if he had jumped to the NFL when he was 22. I also think he could have found a home on defense, particularly in a 3-4.
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