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Old 08-24-2013, 10:55 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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I said he was the best senior running back in November and compared him to Jonathan Stewart.


Edit: Oh yeah, and have been sig-repping him forever.
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Old 08-24-2013, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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Indeed. You can take credit.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
I'm pretty sure before your edit you asked how gpngc thought of Michael before this showing and becoming a Seahawk.

Here is his "draft board":
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...0&#post3342630


NOTICE MICHAEL IS NOT IN HIS TOP 50, and thus obviously behind other RB's.

CLEARLY HIS FAVORITE RB OF THE 2013 NFL DRAFT
Yeah I edited the post because I felt it was argumentative and I'm not trying to be.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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Heard Johnathan Cooper got a nasty injury that got him carted off....
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:07 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Originally Posted by Thecollegedropout View Post
Heard Johnathan Cooper got a nasty injury that got him carted off....
:-S that really sucks. Despite playing for a division rival and everything, I'm bummed to hear that because I really liked him.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:15 PM    (permalink
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his ankle got clipped, his rb got tackled into the ankle. Looked like it hurt.
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Tavon - OROY
Ogletree - DROY

Has that ever happened before? Same team?


Both looked great tonight
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Old 08-24-2013, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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I really hope Revis is healthy enough to play against the Jets in the opener.
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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The Chiefs won. Hooray for that.
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:29 AM    (permalink
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Mike Jurecki (‏@mikejurecki)
"Cooper broke his fibula"
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Old 08-25-2013, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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Geno Smith has a lot to learn if he's ever going to be a competent QB in the league.

The main thing though is that he badly stares down his targets. He made no attempt to look off. All of the DB's know where the ball is going. It's pretty awful. He was also inaccurate tonight and running out of the back of the endzone is inexcusable. I'm very disappointed with what I saw from him tonight.

Matt Simms for starter!
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Old 08-25-2013, 01:03 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
Tavon - OROY
Ogletree - DROY

Has that ever happened before? Same team?


Both looked great tonight
Christine Michael already won the OROY. Didn't you hear?
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Old 08-25-2013, 07:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
I said he was the best senior running back in November and compared him to Jonathan Stewart.


Edit: Oh yeah, and have been sig-repping him forever.
He was easily the most talented running back in the draft. He fell further than he should've, because of some minor character concerns, but it shouldn't be a surprise when a guy that drops due to non-football related stuff, out-performs his draft position.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:40 AM    (permalink
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The Chiefs won. Hooray for that.
Dave Toub is my hero. That guy is one hell of a Special Teams coach.
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Old 08-25-2013, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jth1331 View Post
I'm pretty sure before your edit you asked how gpngc thought of Michael before this showing and becoming a Seahawk.

Here is his "draft board":
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...0&#post3342630


NOTICE MICHAEL IS NOT IN HIS TOP 50, and thus obviously behind other RB's.

CLEARLY HIS FAVORITE RB OF THE 2013 NFL DRAFT
What does my board have to do with me forming an opinion based on what I've seen during preseason?

Michael was barely used last year because he was in the dog house.

I put the most stock into game tape and production and he wasn't on my board due to a lack of those critical factors.

But again, what does that have to do with me seeing a beast in preseason and using this new information to form an opinion about a player?

i mentioned that others said he was the most talented back in the draft - not me.

EDIT:

I don't get it. Because I wasn't supremely high on a guy pre-draft, I'm not allowed to evolve my opinion based on what I see post-draft? wtf? I like to be proven right but I judge what I see and that's it. Just like Wilson last year. I wasn't high on the pick at all but once he started looking great in preseason I jumped on board in a heartbeat. This is the same situation.

It really has nothing to do with our argument which is that "ITZ JUST PRESEASON IDIOT" is a worthless claim.

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Old 08-25-2013, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Dave Toub is my hero. That guy is one hell of a Special Teams coach.
Yeah, he really is. That unit is completely different from last year. It was a major weakness last year and now I'd say it's a strength.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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What does my board have to do with me forming an opinion based on what I've seen during preseason?

Michael was barely used last year because he was in the dog house.

I put the most stock into game tape and production and he wasn't on my board due to a lack of those critical factors.

But again, what does that have to do with me seeing a beast in preseason and using this new information to form an opinion about a player?

i mentioned that others said he was the most talented back in the draft - not me.

EDIT:

I don't get it. Because I wasn't supremely high on a guy pre-draft, I'm not allowed to evolve my opinion based on what I see post-draft? wtf? I like to be proven right but I judge what I see and that's it. Just like Wilson last year. I wasn't high on the pick at all but once he started looking great in preseason I jumped on board in a heartbeat. This is the same situation.

It really has nothing to do with our argument which is that "ITZ JUST PRESEASON IDIOT" is a worthless claim.
It's because you come across in a very pompous fashion and you argue ability to scout players whenever someone argues with you.

Christine Michael showed all of the same attributes you are fawning over now that he is a Seahawk when he was at A&M. You never even mentioned his name prior to him becoming a Seahawk. You "questioned" whether Michael was as talented as some had been saying and even referred to him as "(s)he"....

Quote:
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So this year's class features the most talented RB in the draft (I question this but it's been widely accpeted that (s)he is)

Get out of here with what is obvious homerism. He could become a HOF RB but you wouldn't be going ape over him in the preseason if he weren't a Seahawk.

Throw the "it's what anyone can see if they use their eyes" stuff out of the equation, because anyone who can use their eyes can see you're being a homer.

Caulibflower rode Michael from before the 2012 season. Stayed with him even when he was down during the season. Remained supportive of him throughout the pre-draft season and after being selected to his favorite team.

He's not been in here seeking-attention or looking for affirmation or even being hyper-excited about two preseason games.

I tried to be bigger and walk away from this last night but you came in today spewing the same rhetoric.

I get that you're excited about him and you should be, but don't guise it as "scouting" when in reality, you're plugging him because he's a Seahawk. That's all I ask.

Had to get that off my chest.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:15 AM    (permalink
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It's because you come across in a very pompous fashion and you argue ability to scout players whenever someone argues with you.

Christine Michael showed all of the same attributes you are fawning over now that he is a Seahawk when he was at A&M. You never even mentioned his name prior to him becoming a Seahawk. You "questioned" whether Michael was as talented as some had been saying and even referred to him as "(s)he"....

Get out of here with what is obvious homerism. He could become a HOF RB but you wouldn't be going ape over him in the preseason if he weren't a Seahawk.

Throw the "it's what anyone can see if they use their eyes" stuff out of the equation, because anyone who can use their eyes can see you're being a homer.

Caulibflower rode Michael from before the 2012 season. Stayed with him even when he was down during the season. Remained supportive of him throughout the pre-draft season and after being selected to his favorite team.

He's not been in here seeking-attention or looking for affirmation or even being hyper-excited about two preseason games.
It's homerism when you see a guy on your team play well and get excited?

I still don't understand why my pre-draft opinion on Michael should disallow me from forming a new opinion seeing him in the NFL.

I questioned it, yes. And he's answered those questions. The people who said he was the most talented back - they look right at the moment.

I seek to find the truth and evaluate the game. If I make a claim, I don't staunchly hold on to it just to be proven right. I didn't care much for Michael as a prospect - but after seeing this I'm damn excited. I don't understand what's wrong with that?

My argument was attacking the "calm down it's preseason" sentiment, which is worthless. If someone were to break down his game that night along with anything else, I'd be happy to give and take.

There's no hidden agenda. I'm not seeking attention for myself - I just wish Michael got some attention after that game. Unfortunately with the way the NFL is covered he won't.

If I come across as pompous it's because I despise the "calm down" argument whenever someone gets excited and makes a bold statement - even if that statement is grounded in reasoning and the "calm down" person doesn't even have any substance to counter the bold statement.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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My argument was attacking the "calm down it's preseason" sentiment, which is worthless. If someone were to break down his game that night along with anything else, I'd be happy to give and take.

There's no hidden agenda. I'm not seeking attention for myself - I just wish Michael got some attention after that game. Unfortunately with the way the NFL is covered he won't.

If I come across as pompous it's because I despise the "calm down" argument whenever someone gets excited and makes a bold statement - even if that statement is grounded in reasoning and the "calm down" person doesn't even have any substance to counter the bold statement.
I respect the rationality here. He has looked really good. But all excitement can be tempered with Preseason caution. Whether right, or wrong, Preseason games don't always lend directly to career production. You should expect and understand to see people wary of bold declarations based upon Preseason play.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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I respect the rationality here. He has looked really good. But all excitement can be tempered with Preseason caution. Whether right, or wrong, Preseason games don't always lend directly to career production. You should expect and understand to see people wary of bold declarations based upon Preseason play.
I understand taking statistics with a huge grain of salt.

But evaluating performance on a rep-by-rep basis is a different type of thing.

If you were to come here saying Quinton Patton looked amazing - why would I doubt you?

I don't get the immediate skepticism and sometimes outright negative reaction to anything bold.

Especially in this case with the guy having so much talent. Or last year with Luck having so much talent when we commented on his preseason and the overriding reaction to the few of us who started getting really excited for the Colts chances was "wait til the regular season - this doesn't mean anything." The fact is - it DID mean something and those of us who caught it understood that Luck would have a gigantic impact on that team.

I just don't doubt people just because it's different IF and only IF they have sound reasoning or a basis for what they're saying - no matter how bold. But my main problem is that there's no argument about the specific plaeyr - just a useless generalization that "well many times preseason play doesn't correlate to good players." Many times it does. The fact is that it's wisest to judge each situation based on the factors involved in each situation rather than using generilazations to steer you away from what your eye tells you.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Calm down G.
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Old 08-25-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
If you were to come here saying Quinton Patton looked amazing - why would I doubt you?
You wouldn't, because you LOVE Quinton Patton :)


Hope he can play tonight, finally.
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Old 08-25-2013, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
Tavon - OROY
Ogletree - DROY

Has that ever happened before? Same team?


Both looked great tonight
Austin didn't do much on offense though. 1 catch for 12 yards, but had a fantastic return. Although Fisher was just playing a very basic and bland game, showing nothing. Probably once the regular season games hit, you'll see runs, reverses, screens to Austin.

But Ogletree, he made 3 great plays, all in coverage which I think people weren't sure he could do.

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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
What does my board have to do with me forming an opinion based on what I've seen during preseason?

Michael was barely used last year because he was in the dog house.

I put the most stock into game tape and production and he wasn't on my board due to a lack of those critical factors.

But again, what does that have to do with me seeing a beast in preseason and using this new information to form an opinion about a player?

i mentioned that others said he was the most talented back in the draft - not me.

EDIT:

I don't get it. Because I wasn't supremely high on a guy pre-draft, I'm not allowed to evolve my opinion based on what I see post-draft? wtf? I like to be proven right but I judge what I see and that's it. Just like Wilson last year. I wasn't high on the pick at all but once he started looking great in preseason I jumped on board in a heartbeat. This is the same situation.

It really has nothing to do with our argument which is that "ITZ JUST PRESEASON IDIOT" is a worthless claim.
Well, for one, from what I could gather Michael was usually ranked as the 3rd to 5th best RB in the draft.
Second, as phlysac commented, the only reason you are so high on Michael right now is because he is a Seahawk. He was no where on your radar, all of a sudden he's a Seahawk who looked good in a preseason game against backups. I'm not saying he isn't going to be good, but stating it can be hard to gauge how good a player is given the circumstances preseason games are played under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
I understand taking statistics with a huge grain of salt.

But evaluating performance on a rep-by-rep basis is a different type of thing.

If you were to come here saying Quinton Patton looked amazing - why would I doubt you?

I don't get the immediate skepticism and sometimes outright negative reaction to anything bold.

Especially in this case with the guy having so much talent. Or last year with Luck having so much talent when we commented on his preseason and the overriding reaction to the few of us who started getting really excited for the Colts chances was "wait til the regular season - this doesn't mean anything." The fact is - it DID mean something and those of us who caught it understood that Luck would have a gigantic impact on that team.

I just don't doubt people just because it's different IF and only IF they have sound reasoning or a basis for what they're saying - no matter how bold. But my main problem is that there's no argument about the specific plaeyr - just a useless generalization that "well many times preseason play doesn't correlate to good players." Many times it does. The fact is that it's wisest to judge each situation based on the factors involved in each situation rather than using generilazations to steer you away from what your eye tells you.
Well of course when you change from Curits Painter or whoever the Colts were trotting out there in 2011 to Andrew Luck its going to have an impact. Heck, I'd argue Matt Cassell would've had a 4 game swing in the win column for that team.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:01 AM    (permalink
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Michael looks very impressive, but if I've learned one thing in 20 years of watching football, it's to take preseason performances with a grain of salt. In the next week, the NFL is going to be cut in half and these guys are going to be selling insurance.
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Old 08-25-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I have no idea what Dave Toub is making...I do however know it's nowhere near enough
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