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Old 12-01-2013, 08:09 AM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by Caulibflower View Post
It should be Jordan Lynch. He's set the single-game rushing record for quarterbacks twice this season and his Huskies are undefeated. And he's a senior, and he owns everyone he plays. Latest member of the 20-20 club. Give it to him.
They have the 110th strongest schedule. Saw what happened last year when he faced a real team in FSU. It should go to Jameis.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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It's definitely not going to happen for Lynch. Just like how sneaking into a last-pick BCS bowl is the best thing his team could hope for, an invite is his best scenario and even that would be tough. One of the best players the MAC has had, but, well, it is the MAC.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock View Post
They have the 110th strongest schedule. Saw what happened last year when he faced a real team in FSU. It should go to Jameis.
FSU played a pretty big joke of a schedule as well. ACC is one of the weaker major conferences. So if Winston is cleared of these charges the award will more than likely go to him - the whole best player on the best team that the voting has become rather than the best player in college football.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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FSU played a pretty big joke of a schedule as well. ACC is one of the weaker major conferences. So if Winston is cleared of these charges the award will more than likely go to him - the whole best player on the best team that the voting has become rather than the best player in college football.
There are only 16 teams(I think) with an easier schedule than NIU. FSU isnt great but they are in the 70's in SOS. Once again they barely beat Iowa who is a bottom feeder in the big 10 anad barely escaped my alma mater EIU. FSU is one of the best teams because of Winston. He really only had a subpar game against Miami. He is top 10 in nearly every passing category.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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There are only 16 teams(I think) with an easier schedule than NIU. FSU isnt great but they are in the 70's in SOS. Once again they barely beat Iowa who is a bottom feeder in the big 10 anad barely escaped my alma mater EIU. FSU is one of the best teams because of Winston. He really only had a subpar game against Miami. He is top 10 in nearly every passing category.
Yea I agree - Iowa is actually a pretty solid Big 10 team though 8-4 this year. The FSU defense is pretty ridiculous though which is why I say the best player on the best team is going to win. Winston played awesome this year. When you look at raw stats and carrying a team Manziel wins but he did not get it done down the stretch run. The defense really hurt Manziel's chances earlier in the season at repeating.

I do think Lynch deserves an invite though - he has had a great season.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:13 PM    (permalink
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Andre Williams did not help his case yesterday, 9 carries for 29 yards and one touchdown and was injured in the loss to Syracuse. I would have Jameis Winston first on my ballot, but I don't know who I would have following him and in what order. Manziel did not do a good job finishing out the season, 2 tds and 2 interceptions, no rushing touchdowns. If Derek Carr hadn't lost to San Jose State I might put him behind Winston. Third best completion percentage in the country, leader in touchdowns and yards, and only threw five interceptions. What Carlos Hyde has done in 9 games is incredible, and all of it came against BCS level competition for the most part. I don't know how I'd rank them after Winston, nobody really stands out.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Andre Williams did not help his case yesterday, 9 carries for 29 yards and one touchdown and was injured in the loss to Syracuse. I would have Jameis Winston first on my ballot, but I don't know who I would have following him and in what order. Manziel did not do a good job finishing out the season, 2 tds and 2 interceptions, no rushing touchdowns. If Derek Carr hadn't lost to San Jose State I might put him behind Winston. Third best completion percentage in the country, leader in touchdowns and yards, and only threw five interceptions. What Carlos Hyde has done in 9 games is incredible, and all of it came against BCS level competition for the most part. I don't know how I'd rank them after Winston, nobody really stands out.
You can't hold the San Jose State loss against Carr. He went 38-50 for 519 yds and 6/1.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock
There are only 16 teams(I think) with an easier schedule than NIU. FSU isnt great but they are in the 70's in SOS. Once again they barely beat Iowa who is a bottom feeder in the big 10 anad barely escaped my alma mater EIU. FSU is one of the best teams because of Winston. He really only had a subpar game against Miami. He is top 10 in nearly every passing category.
As pointed out, Iowa is decent this year. Last year was more of a year where Iowa was a bottom feeder. That was also the year that the Huskies didn't beat them and still made a BCS game, because stupidity.

Lynch finished an extreeeeemely distant 7th in Heisman voting last year, a year with an obvious winner, for reference. The MAC has never had anyone finish higher than 5th.

EIU could actually be considered one of their better wins. Possibly the best FCS team, they really pulled away from bowl eligible SDSU in their only other FBS matchup. Not by any means a great win, but such is their resume. They really let Garoppolo get a big start on them in that one, down by three touchdowns midway through the first quarter. A lot of their games seem to go with that slow start, usually still very close through three quarters (sadly even against the likes of Idaho) but they always manage to pull it out, usually by way of Lynch taking over. And that's how they get here, because BCS games are for kind-of-good closers, and occasionally for those that lose to bad Iowa teams.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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You can't hold the San Jose State loss against Carr. He went 38-50 for 519 yds and 6/1.
Yeah, I'm not, but a lot of people aren't going to consider him now because of it. Most of the time they'll only consider a non-AQ guy if he is on an undefeated team.
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Old 12-08-2013, 02:53 AM    (permalink
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Here's how I think I would rank them after tonight. The only two guys who I think are deserving of going to the ceremony are Winston and Mason. Weird year.

1. Jameis Winston: Flat out dominated the entire season, not much to say.
2. Tre Mason: Led the nation in rushing yards against ranked opponents, rushed for more than 100 yards in every SEC game but two. More than 150 in three of his SEC games, including Alabama. 7th in the nation in rushing, 6th in the nation in rushing against BCS conference opponents, tied for third in the nation for rushing touchdowns. Performance against Missouri was amazing.

After those two I have no Idea how I'd ranked the rest, but if I had to pick three more to fill it out I would choose these three in no particular order.

Carlos Hyde: The numbers he put up despite missing three games were amazing.

Marcus Mariota: His completion percentage was not impressive, but he did he was a solid dual threat QB throughout the year. Only throwing four interceptions the entire season while throwing thirty touchdowns was very impressive.

Kadeem Carey or Bishop Sankey: Sankey only rushed for less than 100 yards in three games this year. His performance against Stanford, even though it was a loss, was still impressive considering Stanford's defense. He rushed for more yards against Stanford anyone else all year. Rushing for more than 150 yards in 7 games, all against BCS opponents, is also very impressive. His 15 touchdowns against BCS opponents also led the nation.

Carey's season was also very impressive. Rushing for more than 100 yards in every single one of his games, all of which were against FBS opponents. He was consistent throughout the season.

I chose not to include Andre Williams because about a third of his yards came against FCS/non BCS conference competition. He accounted for roughly a third of his yards against Army, New Mexico State, and Villanova. New Mexico State has the worst rushing defense in the nations (125th) and Army has the 100th. Against quality teams he struggled, USC and Clemson kept him to less than 3 yards a carry.
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Old 12-08-2013, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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It's gonna be Winston, and the vote won't be close.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:16 PM    (permalink
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The 6 finalists are.....

Jameis Winston
Andre Williams
Jordan Lynch
A.J. McCarron
Tre Mason
Johnny Manziel


The voting between 2-6 must be ridiculously close.

Unrelated but does Manziel vote this year or do they have to wait until after there eligibility ends?
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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It's gonna be Winston, and the vote won't be close.
Could challenge Smith's record for most lopsided win.
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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I posted who I thought should've been the finalists and I'm disappointed to see these finalists, with the possible exception of Manziel. McCarron is just there because of his overall career and I believe the Heisman is for the best performance over a season. I also feel like your performance against elite competition should be considered, that's why I was hesitant to include Manziel. He had a very underwhelming end to the season against LSU and Missouri. Lynch, I can't take seriously, his schedule is horrendous, NIU played one decent school from a BCS conference and another awful school form a BCS conference. Their other out of conference games were a one win Idaho team and an FCS team. Andre William's season was impressive, but like I said before he accumulated a third of his rushing stats against an FCS school, Army, and a team with the 125th ranked defense in the nation. Personally I think KaDeem Carey and Bishop Sankey's season's were more impressive than his. Williams was a one dimensional player, he did not catch a pass the entire season. Carey and Sankey both had over 200 yards receiving. Even Carlos Hyde I thought had a better season than Williams.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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I remember seeing somewhere today the odds in Vegas for Winston to win are like 150/1 or 1/150, however you put it to win $1 for every $150 bet.
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Old 12-09-2013, 09:41 PM    (permalink
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The Heisman is pretty stupid, and Winston is going to win anyway, but if any human being on earth thinks AJ McCarron did more for Alabama this year than Braxton Miller did for Ohio State, they know absolutely nothing about football and should never, ever be listened to.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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It's Winston. The others are good but not really that close. Manziel was the same way last year. The competition was even worse last year with Manti Teo. Jesus that was an abomination.


Side note, the Heisman really just is the best player on one of the top teams. I will be forever bitter about Ingram winning when Gerhart was actually the better player that year.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:50 PM    (permalink
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I posted who I thought should've been the finalists and I'm disappointed to see these finalists, with the possible exception of Manziel. McCarron is just there because of his overall career and I believe the Heisman is for the best performance over a season. I also feel like your performance against elite competition should be considered, that's why I was hesitant to include Manziel. He had a very underwhelming end to the season against LSU and Missouri.
Not trying to say he's worthy but, he was playing through injuries, subsequently, he looked decidedly ordinary.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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Not trying to say he's worthy but, he was playing through injuries, subsequently, he looked decidedly ordinary.
Or he looked decidedly ordinary because he finally played a good defense. He is the classic definition of a "System QB" in a stat whoring system.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Andre William's season was impressive, but like I said before he accumulated a third of his rushing stats against an FCS school, Army, and a team with the 125th ranked defense in the nation. Personally I think KaDeem Carey and Bishop Sankey's season's were more impressive than his. Williams was a one dimensional player, he did not catch a pass the entire season. Carey and Sankey both had over 200 yards receiving. Even Carlos Hyde I thought had a better season than Williams.
Yes, Williams did accumulate a lot of yards against Villanova, Army, and New Mexico State (31.97% to be exact). But against BCS teams, he did still average 159 ypg and a TD on 5.8 ypc.

Lets look at Carey. In the same amount of games against BCS competition, Carey averaged 1 less yard 0.8 ypc less than Williams. Sankey averaged about 6 yards less per game and 0.6 ypc less against BCS competition. You want to harp on him for not catching balls, that's fine. But his numbers against BCS teams were just as good as the other guys you mentioned so you're barking up the wrong tree on that one.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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Yes, Williams did accumulate a lot of yards against Villanova, Army, and New Mexico State (31.97% to be exact). But against BCS teams, he did still average 159 ypg and a TD on 5.8 ypc.

Lets look at Carey. In the same amount of games against BCS competition, Carey averaged 1 less yard 0.8 ypc less than Williams. Sankey averaged about 6 yards less per game and 0.6 ypc less against BCS competition. You want to harp on him for not catching balls, that's fine. But his numbers against BCS teams were just as good as the other guys you mentioned so you're barking up the wrong tree on that one.
According to the FEI defensive rankings he went up against 2 of the Top 5 defenses in the country against Virginia Tech (#1) and Florida State (#5). Against VT he had 33 carries for 166 yards (5.0) and 2 TDs; against FSU he had 28 carries for 149 yards (5.3). Yes he put up stupid numbers against bad teams (for which Ron Dayne was given a Heisman in 1999) but he also did extremely well against the best of the best.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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Or he looked decidedly ordinary because he finally played a good defense. He is the classic definition of a "System QB" in a stat whoring system.
He's lit up Bama two years in a row...so??
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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He's lit up Bama two years in a row...so??
And been awful against Missouri, Florida, and LSU (2x). Seems to be more of a schematic problem for Alabama.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:56 AM    (permalink
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Stiff Arm Trophy has this as a landslide for Winston. They haven't made an official proclamation but the writing is on the wall.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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According to the FEI defensive rankings he went up against 2 of the Top 5 defenses in the country against Virginia Tech (#1) and Florida State (#5). Against VT he had 33 carries for 166 yards (5.0) and 2 TDs; against FSU he had 28 carries for 149 yards (5.3). Yes he put up stupid numbers against bad teams (for which Ron Dayne was given a Heisman in 1999) but he also did extremely well against the best of the best.
I was going to point out that Williams had stud games against Va Tech and FSU, maybe the best overall defense in the country, when everyone knew BC was going to run the football.

Andre Williams is a deserving Heisman finalist.
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