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Old 09-19-2013, 02:22 PM    (permalink
Bengals78
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Meanwhile Jim Brown bitchslaps Lombardi:

“I think the kid is a good working back, and if you’ve got everything else around him he can play his role,” Brown told ESPN Cleveland. “But when it comes to outstanding, I don’t see anything outstanding about him. It’s not said in a cruel manner. He’s very efficient, and that’s what you want.”

Also do we really need ESPN Cleveland? Talk about depressing.
Was this before or after he bitchslapped his GF?
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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Was this before or after he bitchslapped his GF?
During, I wish. Just for the visual.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Why are we killing the Browns? They traded away a player they no longer viewed as a first rounder. If they end up in next years draft with Teddy, Hundley or Boyd at QB. And a Lache Seastrunk or Sammy Watkins with the Colts pick is anyone going to be thinking about 33 again.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:40 PM    (permalink
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From what I'm reading, most of the criticisms of this trade are based on one terribly false premise: Trent Richardson is an excellent RB.

Simply put, Richardson has been one of the least productive starting backs in the league since he came in. He is averaging 3.4 yards a carry this season after averaging 3.6 last season. He has exactly two runs of 20+ yards in his whole career. TWO!!!

Honestly, the Colts are the ambitious ones in this trade. They are banking on Richardson's lack of production being the outcome of bad circumstances in Cleveland. Richardson does give the Colts a potential power element they currently lack, but he has not even demonstrated himself to be better than what the Colts currently have at the position.

Simply put, Richardson has not shown that he is worthy of a first round pick, and yet the Browns got a first round pick for him. Cleveland should be applauded.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Also, I don't think this will give Cleveland the ammo needed to trade up in the draft for a franchise QB. It takes a lot to move up at the top of the draft. If Cleveland ends the season with say, the fourth pick and a pick in the 20s from Indy, that likely would not be enough to move up to the No.1 pick, especially if a team like Jacksonville is picking first and needs a QB.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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So yall are saying a 22 year old runningback that has 1 season under his belt couldn't be a piece to a rebuilding team? The browns took 1 step back in the progression part of rebuilding a team while adding only a temporary and older rb in McGahee. I don't care if they got another 1st rounder back, what will garuentee them another solid rb that they had in TRich? Nothing is going to garuntee them a franchise qb either
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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The way the Browns run their team makes me appreciate Jerry Jones.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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The only question the Browns had to ask themselves was "is Trent Richardson worth a mid first round pick?". Obviously they came to the conclusion that he isn't. And i'm not sure how anyone can question that, it's not like Richardson has actually been good.

Where he was picked is completely irrelevant.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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I agree with Jim Brown honestly. I don't see any elite characteristic on Trent that makes me believe he's an elite RB.

He's very ordinary, just like Jim said. Does he have elite burst? No. Does he have elite cut back ability and agility? No. Does he have elite top end speed? No.

He has above average speed and burst, with below average vision, and incredible power.

Overall that makes a rather ordinary RB. Please explain to me how he's any better than Doug Martin? Aren't they essentially the same player? In fact Martin has better vision and cutback ability so I'd argue Martin is better.

I don't see it with him. I don't see what everyone else sees. And the production doesn't match either. Oh and he's injury prone. I think Cleveland did well here.

Now having that said, Indy did well here too. He's an upgrade for them, they want to run the ball more, and he's good value from their perspective as well.

It's just a good trade for everyone involved.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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the browns suck for the next 10 years and Trent kills it in Indy.
Fixed that for you.
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The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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Please explain to me how he's any better than Doug Martin? Aren't they essentially the same player? In fact Martin has better vision and cutback ability so I'd argue Martin is better.
Doug Martin would have garnered more than what the Colts gave up for Richardson.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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So yall are saying a 22 year old runningback that has 1 season under his belt couldn't be a piece to a rebuilding team? The browns took 1 step back in the progression part of rebuilding a team while adding only a temporary and older rb in McGahee. I don't care if they got another 1st rounder back, what will garuentee them another solid rb that they had in TRich? Nothing is going to garuntee them a franchise qb either
One season he played hurt and was on a godawful offense.
Is he Adrian Peterson? No.
But I'm excited to see how he does on a team where the S can't walk up every down.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:06 PM    (permalink
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I agree with Jim Brown honestly. I don't see any elite characteristic on Trent that makes me believe he's an elite RB.

He's very ordinary, just like Jim said. Does he have elite burst? No. Does he have elite cut back ability and agility? No. Does he have elite top end speed? No.

He has above average speed and burst, with below average vision, and incredible power.

Overall that makes a rather ordinary RB. Please explain to me how he's any better than Doug Martin? Aren't they essentially the same player? In fact Martin has better vision and cutback ability so I'd argue Martin is better.

I don't see it with him. I don't see what everyone else sees. And the production doesn't match either. Oh and he's injury prone. I think Cleveland did well here.

Now having that said, Indy did well here too. He's an upgrade for them, they want to run the ball more, and he's good value from their perspective as well.

It's just a good trade for everyone involved.
Battling some injuries in his first season and he's now labled injury prone? Also saying you'll only give a quarterback 2 years max to develop. If you ever ran an NFL team your organization would look something like the browns.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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There's just a bunch of different ways you can go with this one without being wrong. It's an extremely interesting trade...certainly is reflective of the direction the league is heading in offensively and the devaluation of runningbacks.

I still really like Richardson as a player. I think I had mentioned something earlier about him not looking special. I'll stand by that...but it's entirely too early to say anything definitive with regards to his ultimate career trajectory. He's started off in a bad situation and the few statistics he's compiled are indicative of that. I could easily see him developing into a 1400+ yard a year back, in Cleveland or in Indianapolis.

That's where it starts to get tricky for me though....is that even worth a first round pick anymore? Four of the league's top ten rushers last year were taken in third round or later. All of those guys finished with 1200 yards or more. When you consider that runningback statistics in the NFL tend to vary year to year by 200-300 yards for good backs, you've got to come away with thinking that it isn't. So a victory for the Browns I guess? That's just so tough to say when they used the 3rd overall pick on him less than a year and a half ago. I guess you can swing it as the new management(LOL at the fact Lombardi is getting another shot) realizing some of the things discussed in this thread and maximizing value while they still could, but you can certainly hold it against the organization and ownership for even letting it get to the point where you're getting so little in return for premium draft picks.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Again, why do people think Richardson is garbage? He put up decent stats in a bad offensive situation. I think Cleveland is the bigger problem. They got decent return after missing tons of opportunities recently.

Richardson is a bust but Mingo is already a great pick?
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Battling some injuries in his first season and he's now labled injury prone? Also saying you'll only give a quarterback 2 years max to develop. If you ever ran an NFL team your organization would look something like the browns.
Quarterbacks often take plenty of time to develop. Some of the best haven't been very good at the beginning of their careers. Running backs almost always show what they've got right away.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Again, why do people think Richardson is garbage? He put up decent stats in a bad offensive situation. I think Cleveland is the bigger problem. They got decent return after missing tons of opportunities recently.

Richardson is a bust but Mingo is already a great pick?
Positional value.


...but yeah, Richardson is hardly trash. It's hard to see him living up to the pick they used on him, but I think some people in this thread are really jumping the gun.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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I bet the Browns draft a QB... which makes trading up for Weeden doubly worse!
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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Somebody mentioned this much earlier in the thread, but Holmgren was terrible at personnel stuff. Great coach, terrible at personnel decisions. The Seahawks got much better after he was demoted and full-control/final-say was taken away.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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I do like it for the colts, we fall in love with these young guys sometimes and forget just how much developing and growth they still have to undergo. Luck had a great rookie year while handling a ton of responsibility but there's still so so very much he still has to deal with. Giving him a RB he can lean on, especially if they can build up that OL, will be a big help when luck hits some tough patches in his development.

Now Richardson will need to step up playing on a team with a worse OL but vastly better passing game, but he has it in him to do it. That burst, power and balance are an excellent combo.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
If everything falls in place for them they'll have a sick offense. And they already have a very good defense.

Cleveland is on the come up.
Just wait until they draft Weeden's long lost older brother with their first first rounder.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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I can't wait to see him run this week in Indy. He will get to show us if it's him or if it was Cleveland. Either way we will have a better idea on sunday.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MidwestJimmy View Post
You can tell how bad the Browns organization (not just team) is by how they have been handling their players lately. When Brandon Weeden got hurt, Jason Campbell thought he was the #2 QB and about to start for Weeden. To his surprise, Brian Hoyer is suddenly ahead of him on the depth chart.
Yeah, but Hoyer is better and brings more to the Chud offense.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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BoKnows summed it up perfectly in my thread:

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Originally Posted by boknows34 View Post
Well, the Browns now have the ammo to trade up for that franchise QB they so desperately need in the 2014 draft. Problem is they've been here before and blew it last year with the 4th and 22nd overall picks and the Rams shopping the rights to RG3 just two spots higher.

Remember the Julio Jones trade to Atlanta two years ago when the Browns held the 6th overall pick? The results are in for that deal.

For Jones, perhaps a top 5 WR in the NFL today, Atlanta sent a 1st round (27th overall), 2nd round (59th) and fourth round (124th) picks in the 2011 draft, and 1st (22nd overall) and 4th (118) round picks in the 2012 draft to Cleveland.

Cleveland received:

2011:
27th - Traded with a 3rd round (70th overall) pick for the 21st pick - DT Phil Taylor.
59th - Greg Little - multiple drops and traffic violations. Benched for Davone Bess.
124th - Owen Marecic - cut a year later and signed this week with the 49ers.

2012:
22nd - Brandon Weeden
118th - Traded to Minnesota as part of the Trent Richardson deal.

It's not a stretch to envision a situation in Cleveland where RG3 is throwing to Julio Jones or just staying pat in 2012 and taking Ryan Tannehill and Doug Martin without the need to trade any other picks.

Cleveland have basically turned the 6th and 4th overall picks in two loaded drafts into Phil Taylor and the Colts 2014 1st round pick (likely to be in the mid teens to early 20s range).

I'm sorry but it's an indefensible series of moves and personnel decisions. Anyone defending the past few years of Browns draft pick management is out of their ****ing mind.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 09-19-2013, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
he won't show anyone anything this week. he'll barely know the playbook.
I mean, he's a runningback. He won't be lining up in the slot or anything, but the percentage of the playbook a runningback has to know is the smallest of any player that isn't a punter or kicker. They just need to know their number, the gap number (same for every team), whether it's a pitch or hand-off (who pitches anymore?), and which side he's protecting on pass plays. None of those things change in any playbook from team to team.
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