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Old 09-23-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by ElectricEye View Post
It was 13, by the way...although you may as well knock one off since it was on the 1 yard line.

...and really? Since when? We're allowed to make definitive statements about a guy based on 13 carries now?

I think you guys are really out of your minds here. I agree completely that the early prognosis isn't good and I wasn't even the biggest fan of Trent coming out, but it's absolutely crazy to start saying so and so is the better option on a 13 carry sample size. That's just...I'm sorry dude, that's just straight up asinine. I can't even wrap my head around that. Dude had been with the team for all of four days before that. He probably doesn't even know the offense yet. That obviously has less effect on a runningback than any other offensive skill position, but give the guy a few games at least. I could go through the lists of second string runners who have put up better numbers than starting backs with similar carry number in games through the first three weeks...but it feel entirely too silly that it even needs to be said/done.


As far as debating if he was worth a first round pick from Indy? I get that. Even if he goes nuts and puts up 1400 yards for the season(which he probably won't do), you could make a very good argument that a late first round pick has tons more potential value than even a Pro Bowl caliber runningback.
It's an overreaction by me. I won't deny that. I'm just projecting. Based on what I've seen in Cleveland and the early return in Indy, it doesn't look promising.

And honestly I don't buy the playbook argument. You run. It's not like he's running a route tree on a run play. Every run play is hey go run into the open lane and get yards. It's not like a pass play. If you get the rock you have to run through the open hole just like any other run play.

Knowing the playbook better is completely irrelevant to his output in those 13 carries.

Knowing your OLmen? Yes. That's actually a better argument, and one that I overlooked. But the playbook is irrelevant.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
Ladanian Tomlinson is the prime example of a RB who put up awful numbers as a rookie and ended up a stud.
1200 yards and 10 TDs on 4.3 ypc with another 400 receiving yards is your prime example of awful numbers?

It's spelled Ladainian btw.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:56 PM    (permalink
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1200 yards and 10 TDs on 4.3 ypc with another 400 receiving yards is your prime example of awful numbers?

It's spelled Ladainian btw.
The thing about LT's first year is that even with the low ypc he showed the total package. Cutback ability, speed, elusiveness, the only thing he seemed to lack some was strength. It seemed clear the line was holding him back. Marty improved the OL in his 2nd year and rebuilt the offense on running the ball. LT got a little stronger and year 2 it seemed like every carry he might take it to the house, ala AP.

TR was also supposed to be the complete package and his Bama tape suggested he was. But he simply hasn't shown that kind of explosiveness. He's a shifty power back with good hands. He rarely appears a threat to take it all the way on any given carry.

Previous top ten backs, Spiller, D-Mac, AP, Bush, at least show that type of ability. You'd never take strictly a power back in the top ten, even back then.
Which is why Benson's a good comparison. He was another supposed consummate RB capable of doing it all.

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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
so, going back to other rbs who started slower than expected... what was thomas jones' problem? laziness? knowshon moreno syndrome? vision?

he's the best counter-example i can think of to "running backs who suck their first two years never really recover".
I think I remember T.Jones lacking patience when he was on the Cards. One speed, top speed, every carry. And he was mostly a part time back.

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This is a very interesting post and I know nothing about medicine. Is this rib injury injury better or worse than cracked ribs? Or is it neither better nor worse, just different?
I remember reading cracked would have healed faster.
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Old 09-23-2013, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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1200 yards and 10 TDs on 4.3 ypc with another 400 receiving yards is your prime example of awful numbers?

It's spelled Ladainian btw.
I thought his ypc was around 3.6, which was just about what people are evicerating Trent for. My bad.

And **** you autocorrect!
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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2001 Tomlinson
16g - 339att - 1,236yds - 3.6ypc - 10TD - 59rec - 367yds - 6.2ypr
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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If Trent wasn't overdrafted with the 3rd pick overall, he wouldn't be getting so much heat. And if he had been drafted by Cleveland with the 20th pick and the Colts traded a 1st rounder to acquire him, Indy would rightly be eviscerated by NFL analysts.

When you're taken top 3, we're all assuming a certain player value on the field.
Richardson is not a top-three-in-the-draft type talent. You can give five years for his game to come around, he's just not that type of RB.

For Cleveland to get back a #1 for a guy who had no business being drafted that high is amazing.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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I sure would rather have Trent rather than Steven Jackson. Hell, I would have rather signed Reggie Bush.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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S-Jax will be solid for you guys.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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Dropped a game winning td already and got hurt three carries into game two... we'll see.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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it's going to be hilarious when cleveland trades a 3rd rounder this offseason for jonathan stewart
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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I'm starting to think Trent Richardson is going to be Curtis Martin. And I think Martin is one hell of a football player. But Martin was one that never would be able to put a team on his back. He got the yards that were there to get but ever took yards that he had no business in getting. You look at top 5 Rb's who were stars. The Faulk's, AP's and Tomlinson's. They make the one guy miss that breaks them free. Don't think Trent has that.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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Draft analysts and GMs should always be skeptical of a RB who plays behind the best offensive line in all of college on a team that is constantly playing with a league and shutting people down on defense.

I mean, I wouldn't draft ANY RB (yep, not even Peterson) in the 1st or 2nd round, but DEFINITELY not a RB who played on the best team in college football with the best offensive line playing with the lead and milking the clock in every game.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:12 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
Draft analysts and GMs should always be skeptical of a RB who plays behind the best offensive line in all of college on a team that is constantly playing with a league and shutting people down on defense.

I mean, I wouldn't draft ANY RB (yep, not even Peterson) in the 1st or 2nd round, but DEFINITELY not a RB who played on the best team in college football with the best offensive line playing with the lead and milking the clock in every game.
So you're telling us that knowing what you know. You wouldn't draft AP in the first round?
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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Lynch peterson spiller cj doug martin were worth the 1st rounders.

Charles ray rice mjd foster and mccoy would have been.

Also a big alfred morris fan but he's not complete yet.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Lynch peterson spiller cj doug martin were worth the 1st rounders.

Charles ray rice mjd foster and mccoy would have been.

Also a big alfred morris fan but he's not complete yet.
Peterson, Johnson and Martin yes.

Lynch? Meh...I mean you're looking at 2 okay years in Buffalo, then 2 horrible years before getting shipped out to Seattle where he had another horrible year, then 2 good years.

I just don't think a RB is worth a HIGH 1st round pick unless he's super talented. Johnson and Martin were both late 1sts.
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Old 09-25-2013, 07:07 PM    (permalink
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Buffalos fault they didn't get more out of Lynch. I just meant talent wise though.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Through 1 Game:

D. Brown 8.3 YPC
A. Luck 6.0 YPC 1 TD
A. Bradshaw 5.0 YPC 1 TD
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
T. Richardson 2.7 YPC 1 TD
GAME 2:

D. Brown 21.7 YPC
A. Luck 13.0 YPC
T. Hilton 3.0 YPC
T. Richardson 3.0 YPC 1 TD
S. Havili 0 YPC

(Browns 2-0)

At least he's better than Stanley Havili?
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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But what about all the stacked boxes he isn't facing?!
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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That ypc list isn't a fair way to look at things, but it is getting harder to defend him. Today was set up for him to do well and he didn't.
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Old 09-29-2013, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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The Jaguars are one of the worst rush defense teams in the league coming into today. As much as I wanted to be fair and give him a chance, there's mounting evidence is that the guy just isn't very good. 60 yards on 20 carries against a team like that is a very, very poor effort. Looks like Cleveland may have "won" this one...even though they already lost by taking the guy as high as they did.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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The Jaguars are one of the worst rush defense teams in the league coming into today. As much as I wanted to be fair and give him a chance, there's mounting evidence is that the guy just isn't very good. 60 yards on 20 carries against a team like that is a very, very poor effort. Looks like Cleveland may have "won" this one...even though they already lost by taking the guy as high as they did.
He clearly benefited from playing behind the offensive line at Alabama.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:21 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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If he doesn't improve, Cleveland stole a first for him. He's honestly running out of excuses. It's time to produce, there are no more legit excuses for him.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:36 AM    (permalink
MassNole
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If he doesn't improve, Cleveland stole a first for him. He's honestly running out of excuses. It's time to produce, there are no more legit excuses for him.
When you think of the mileage Alabama RBs have from HS, through practices at Alabama, and finally the way they are used at Bama during games it is becoming clear they are too worn down for much if any NFL success.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:38 AM    (permalink
The Alex
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The elusive triple post.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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The elusive triple post.
Cellphone browser is as useful as Mark Ingram in the NFL.
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