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Old 10-07-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
AcheTen (Thumper)
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Originally Posted by cmarq83 View Post
I mean obviously, look how well that turned out for Manny Lawson.
[bring up isolated case of unrelated player in completely different situation and use as counterargument]

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Old 10-07-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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[bring up isolated case of unrelated player in completely different situation and use as counterargument]

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True, I mean, Manny Lawson has always been able to win a starting spot no matter the coaching staff.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
Like Dowell Loggains said about Kenny Britt, "potential just means you haven't done anything yet"
Parcells I think said it first as "Potential just means you haven't done **** yet."
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
He'll at least get snaps at 4-3 DE (or snaps in general)...

That's usually the prerequisite to proving yourself as a player - actually getting snaps.

Pierre Paul is a bum who doesn't produce much despite playing nearly 90%+ of snaps on defense.

Brandon Graham is a guy who flashes elite ability despite the coaching staff (wedded to a 2-gap 3-4) not giving him more than 19 snaps a game.

If/when he gets traded to a 4-3 team (or cut in the offseason by the Eagles) that gives him a starting job as a 4-3 DE he will be a perennial 10+ sack Pro Bowler.

Brandon Graham was on a 4-3 team that highlighted pass rush abilities before this year and was never a 10+ sack or Pro Bowler...
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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I have this absolute bitter undying and unrelenting hatred towards Pryor that even if he turns out to be good I'll still hate him but accept the fact he's good for the team I root for.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
He'll at least get snaps at 4-3 DE (or snaps in general)...

That's usually the prerequisite to proving yourself as a player - actually getting snaps.

Pierre Paul is a bum who doesn't produce much despite playing nearly 90%+ of snaps on defense.

Brandon Graham is a guy who flashes elite ability despite the coaching staff (wedded to a 2-gap 3-4) not giving him more than 19 snaps a game.

If/when he gets traded to a 4-3 team (or cut in the offseason by the Eagles) that gives him a starting job as a 4-3 DE he will be a perennial 10+ sack Pro Bowler.
Didn philly play a wide 9? Or something similar.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Brandon Graham was on a 4-3 team that highlighted pass rush abilities before this year and was never a 10+ sack or Pro Bowler...
In 2010 he was a rookie and played limited snaps as a rookie.

In 2011 he missed the season with an ACL tear.

In 2012 Jason Babin coming off a 16+ sack season was the starter and Graham was rotated in as a part time player but amassed a great number of combined sacks, hits,hurries in those limited snaps (less than 1/2 of what starting DEs like Jason PIerre Paul played that year).

In 2013 the coaching staff is hell-bent on implementing a 2-gap 3-4 (wrongly in my opinion, and the coaches do not have a strong track record of competence in the case of Billy Davis and are probably misusing their personnel) and refuse to give Graham meaningful snaps.

I would pretty much guarantee that if you are a 4-3 team and you make him a starter at RDE or LDE he will be a 10+ sack Pro Bowl player who is also good vs the run.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Yeah Philly was playing a wide 9 and Jason Babin got close to 20 sacks.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Pryor really impressed me the other night as well. He's already much, much better of a passer than I ever thought he would be.

He really looks like he's improved his throwing mechanics, top to bottom. Footwork is a lot better than we ever saw at Ohio State and his delivery is cleaner. I remember reading about him working on his mechanics with Tom House(who works with Tom Brady and Drew Brees) and writing it off as standard off-season fluff, but it really looks like it's showing up on the field. I've seen him in two games now and I don't think I've seen a single wobbly, floaty football that we saw him throw routinely at Ohio State. He's making plays with his legs still, but he's way more in control. He still has to learn when to take a chance and when to eat it, but his ability to escape and keep his eyes down field(and going through progressions) led to some really huge plays last night.

More than the tangible stuff, it just seems like he wants it. That's something I kind of questioned with him coming out of Ohio State. He really didn't seem to improve a whole ton year to year and then that entire thing happened that led to him coming out early(which is frankly ******** when Manziel's transgressions were similar and amounted to half a slap on the wrist). It's fairly clear that he's been working hard to improve at this point though.
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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In 2013 the coaching staff is hell-bent on implementing a 2-gap 3-4 (wrongly in my opinion, and the coaches do not have a strong track record of competence in the case of Billy Davis and are probably misusing their personnel) and refuse to give Graham meaningful snaps.

I would pretty much guarantee that if you are a 4-3 team and you make him a starter at RDE or LDE he will be a 10+ sack Pro Bowl player who is also good vs the run.
In the other thread you said moving to the 3-4 would make Graham a starter. Now that he isn't, you say the 3-4 is dumb.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:01 PM    (permalink
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In the other thread you said moving to the 3-4 would make Graham a starter. Now that he isn't, you say the 3-4 is dumb.
Where did I say that moving to a 3-4 would in any way be favorable for Graham?

He's much better in a 4-3 scheme.

I might have said that the new coaching staff would give him a shot to start in the 3-4, but apparently they don't mind misusing their personnel (Billy Davis in particular seems very incompetent).
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Where did I say that moving to a 3-4 would in any way be favorable for Graham?

He's much better in a 4-3 scheme.

I might have said that the new coaching staff would give him a shot to start in the 3-4, but apparently they don't mind misusing their personnel (Billy Davis in particular seems very incompetent).
You said the would be the projected starter in the 3-4. In my opinion, being a starter is more favorable than riding the bench.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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I'm glad for Pryor and the NFL. I hate to see super talented players waste that talent.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Like Dowell Loggains said about Kenny Britt, "potential just means you haven't done anything yet"
But it also means that is isn't hopeless either.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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You said the would be the projected starter in the 3-4. In my opinion, being a starter is more favorable than riding the bench.
You're going to have to link me to a quote where I definitely said he'd be a starter this year.

I was hopeful he'd be given the starter's job this year but the defensive coaching staff is basically incompetent and favors playing scrubs like Connor Barwin over elite talent like Graham.

Give me a 4-3 team that signs Graham as a starter and I guarantee he's a 10+sack Pro Bowl player if he plays the whole season as a starter.

Heck, if a 3-4 team plays him at OLB as a starter I wouldn't be surprised if he's a Pro Bowler as well. The current coaching staff simply doesn't know how to evaluate personnel.
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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[Didn't] philly play a wide 9? Or something similar.
Yes, both DEs played a 9-technique, and teams ran the ball on them up the middle regularly. Lining up that wide is for OLBs in a 3-4 because there are three lineman between the OLBs to stop the run. In a 4-3, playing wide 9 will probably be bad against the run, since it's just the two DTs between the DEs.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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You're going to have to link me to a quote where I definitely said he'd be a starter this year.

I was hopeful he'd be given the starter's job this year but the defensive coaching staff is basically incompetent and favors playing scrubs like Connor Barwin over elite talent like Graham.

Give me a 4-3 team that signs Graham as a starter and I guarantee he's a 10+sack Pro Bowl player if he plays the whole season as a starter.

Heck, if a 3-4 team plays him at OLB as a starter I wouldn't be surprised if he's a Pro Bowler as well. The current coaching staff simply doesn't know how to evaluate personnel.
So I don't care enough to go through your posting history, but here is a quote from the OP of your "Brandon Graham is a better player than JPP" thread.

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And it starts in 2013. Graham will be a beast off the edge as an OLB in the 3-4, and will completely outproduce Pierre Paul in every way: sacks, forced fumbles, tackles, tackles for loss.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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But it also means that is isn't hopeless either.
If we're talking Kenny Britt then a new address might help his career because now he's hurting the team.

My thing with Britt is outside of the fact that he was a high pick and looks like he should be a top WR he's basically been average to below average for his whole career. I guess he did have that infamous 3 game stretch.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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So I don't care enough to go through your posting history, but here is a quote from the OP of your "Brandon Graham is a better player than JPP" thread.
If he starts, he will be.

The coaching staff is clueless and would rather start scrubs like Connor Barwin or aging Trent Cole over him.

As it is, being given like 15 snaps a game, Graham is still basically about as productive as Pierre Paul, who is playing 90%+ of the snaps on defense.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:17 PM    (permalink
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I love that defensive strategy. Start players who are worse, so when your good players come in off the bench, they so don't see it coming!

Gee knee us.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:19 PM    (permalink
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It's worth pointing out that Pryor this week is going up against a bolts team whose #1 pass rusher is Larry English and whose starting CBs are going to be some combination of Derek Cox, Richard Marshall and Johnny Patrick depending on which one is injured the least. If he doesn't get it done this week I don't know if it matters how many reps he gets down the line.
Damn what a smart guy. Bolts D is so painfully bad that it's going to be tough to read all these 'Has Pryor turned it around?' articles that the hacks will scrape together.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Can't start in 2 different style of defenses for 2 different coaching staffs.

He's an all star in a different setting you'll all see!
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Damn what a smart guy. Bolts D is so painfully bad that it's going to be tough to read all these 'Has Pryor turned it around?' articles that the hacks will scrape together.


It's not like last night was the first time all year that he's looked decent though.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I love that defensive strategy. Start players who are worse, so when your good players come in off the bench, they so don't see it coming!

Gee knee us.
95% of the time, it works...horrifically...but that 5% of the time makes Brandon Graham a hall of famer. I mean look at him, he's such a stud. I've never seen a DE burst through warmups with as much zeil and fire as Graham. Certainly not that lazy JPP bastard, who's so slow, it's almost like he's recovering from a back problem he's so stiff.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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I actually stayed up til 230 to watch the whole game and got up at 530 this morning.

My body hates me for it. But football is football.
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