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Old 10-09-2013, 12:43 AM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
reading the entire post, wherein i specifically address your criticism, is usually helpful. i hate having to repeat myself.

your team is not good. your team had no business being anywhere near .500 in the last 3 years. it has no business being .500 this year, except that you play the rest of the nfc east 6 times. throw any other qb on that team, and you're 3-13 and talking about taking whoever's left after clowney and bridgewater or whatever.
Oh really? Any QB? You tell me which guys from this list leads Dallas to 3-13.

Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Robert Griffin
Colin Kaepernick
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Andy Dalton
Cam Newton
Matt Schaub
Alex Smith

Heck I'm almost tempted to throw in Ryan Tannehill, Sam Bradford, and Geno Smith cause I'm not sure if I gave you enough options to pick.

Last edited by D-Unit : 10-09-2013 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Oh really? Any QB? You tell me which guys from this list leads Dallas to 3-13.

Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Robert Griffin
Colin Kaepernick
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Andy Dalton
Cam Newton
Matt Schaub
Alex Smith

Heck I'm almost tempted to throw in Ryan Tannehill, Sam Bradford, and Geno Smith cause I'm not sure if I gave you enough options to pick.
I think about half if not more of them would have a sub 500 record if they were the starting QB in Dallas.
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oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:13 AM    (permalink
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Romo is pretty good but he hasn't really accomplished anything is my beef. He has good stats but hasn't really done anything of note in his 7ish years of starting.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:19 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Oh really? Any QB? You tell me which guys from this list leads Dallas to 3-13.

Jay Cutler
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Matt Ryan
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Robert Griffin
Colin Kaepernick
Russell Wilson
Ben Roethlisberger
Andrew Luck
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Phillip Rivers
Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Andy Dalton
Cam Newton
Matt Schaub
Alex Smith

Heck I'm almost tempted to throw in Ryan Tannehill, Sam Bradford, and Geno Smith cause I'm not sure if I gave you enough options to pick.
If you seriously think that the Bengals wouldn't take Tony Romo over Dalton in a second, I think you're a lost cause.
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Old 10-09-2013, 05:56 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9
i got bored.

in 2012, tony romo led a game winning drive with about 6 minutes remaining over the giants in week 1.
week 2 was a blowout loss to seattle.
week 3, romo led two late drives to put points on the board and put the game out of reach.
week 4, was a blowout loss to chicago. romo's 5 ints don't help.
week 6, romo leads a potential game-tying drive for a touchdown, but doesn't convert the 2. god forbid. worst qb ever. such a choker. defense gives up 30+, but that's irrelevant.
week 7, romo leads two late drives to take the lead and then seal the win. god he sucks.
week 8, romo leads a comeback to take the lead in the 3rd quarter after team falls behind 23-0. defense gives up 6 late points. romo leads a late drive that's negated when dez bryant's hand apparently hit out of bounds on a game winning throw by romo. i mean, a game losing interception, i'm sure, right? that's all he does.
week 9, romo drives cowboys down for late touchdown. pulls his back on final drive. i mean, final interception. that he didn't throw.
week 10, blowout win over eagles.
week 11, romo drives dallas down for late game tying fg, then for game winning fg in ot. choker.
week 12, can't make up for 38 point effort by rg3. still rallies team to only lose by a touchdown, after trailing by 25 at the half.
week 13, puts cowboys into lead late in the 4th, before two flukey plays (a cowboys fumble return and an eagles kick return) distort the score.
week 14, brings cowboys back from 9 point deficit, leads game winning drive at end of game. cut this guy already.
week 15, leads game-tying drive against the steelers. doesn't choke in overtime as cowboys win.
week 16, leads two touchdown drives in the final 14 minutes to go to overtime, loses in OT.
week 17, plays poorly, cowboys lose by 10.

so this "in a vacuum" crap is kind of just that. romo was NOT the reason your team was **** last year. your team was **** because it lacked talent. just like it does this year. and most of the last decade.

i should add that actually looking at the games and what happened at the end gives closure to the 'always chokes' stuff as nothing more than a complete fabrication. it's the kind of thing i'd expect eagles or giants fans to joke about, but not the kind of thing anyone should ever take seriously. y'all ask where his signature moments were? they were in the games where he turned a team with 3-13 or 4-12 talent into a .500 club with a chance at the playoffs. it's unfortunate that everyone's bought into the idea that dallas actually has enough talent with anyone else at qb to compete in any meaningful way.
The beauty of this post is that despite the fact it does everything to disprove a previous point raised. The response is... Well this is nothing that we didn't already know.

Despite the fact that it was highlighted that Romo made multiple Game winning or Sealing drives all season last year.

the next post I liked was the Brees comparison. Because it highlighted the stupidity of pointing to interceptions as a prime indicator of how bad a QB is because get this. Brees throws INT's at a higher rate then Romo on a season by season basis. That was glossed over and laughed off in the "You really want to compare Brees to Romo". Despite the fact that the Saints are a much better managed team with an infinitely better Coach. That post wasn't directly comparing Brees with Romo. Just pointing out the silliness of saying INT's are a direct indicator of how good a QB is.

The last issue I wanted to point out is that Romo is NOT A ******* BUS DRIVER. He's a terrible bus driver. Even in his best bus driving season(26 TD's 9 INT's) he still blew it in the playoffs against the Vikings. This team has been trying to take Romo's balls away since the first full season with T.O because they are afraid of the Romoplosion. The fact is. It's going to happen anyway so embrace it and use him to put up as many points as humanly possible and hope the D can stop the team if and when Romo does his thing.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:21 AM    (permalink
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That week 17 loss was more than just him playing poorly. He has the ball with a few minutes left down by less than one score and he turned it over. The division and playoffs were on the line and he made a critical mistake.

Romo is a really good quarterback but I don't trust him to win me big games.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:41 AM    (permalink
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But what suggests he threw the INT because it was a big game? He threw 15 INT's against the Bears, but that wasn't a ' big game', so is Romo better in pressure situations? Looking at such small sample sizes is so stupid. Romo is just inconsistent, some games he's gonna lead the Cowboys to 48 points, other games he's going to throw 5 interceptions. It is what it is. But he's still a relatively good QB.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:50 AM    (permalink
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That week 17 loss was more than just him playing poorly. He has the ball with a few minutes left down by less than one score and he turned it over. The division and playoffs were on the line and he made a critical mistake.

Romo is a really good quarterback but I don't trust him to win me big games.
Exactly. It's happened too many times to chalk it up to just being a big coincidence. Some players just play better in big games and others play worse. It would be like discrediting Montana or Elway for the times they performed in big games and justifying it every single time as something other than their efforts.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:59 AM    (permalink
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Romo is what he is. You take the good with the bad. It's usually good, but it can get bad. After all, he modeled his game after Favre's. Is he the best QB in the league? No, but on a given day he can be. If I were a Cowboys fan I'd be excited about the offense given that they kept pace with the Broncos for 4 quarters. Starting over with a rookie when you have Bryant and Murray at the top of their game would be foolish. The key is getting the defensive problems figured out. Cowboys haven't fielded an elite defense in years.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:24 AM    (permalink
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This also applies to attempting to have rational discussing regarding Tony Romo with him. Trust me all of us in the 'Boys forum have had this EXACT conversation and he loves popping in and discussing Romo even after wins.

NJX has pretty much hit all the points on the head so no point for me to chime in as well. :)
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:39 AM    (permalink
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When Romo got the ball back with 2 min left and the score tied, everyone watching it was thinking the exact same thing.... "don't **** this up Romo".

It's what he does. Heard this stat on the radio yesterday... Cowboys have been tied late in the 4th Quarter 8 times since 2010, he has thrown an interception in all 8 games.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:47 AM    (permalink
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Can't we get a Cowboys fan that isn't a person that will bash Romo for anything? Where is MetSox?
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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I don't agree with the notion that Romo has lacked talent around him to succeed. I strongly disagree with that to be honest.

On defense you can make an argument for it, but he's been surrounded by great talent on offense his entire career. I don't buy that for one second.

Even on defense he's had good talent. Not great sans a couple of years under Wade, but he's had good talent.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Can't we get a Cowboys fan that isn't a person that will bash Romo for anything? Where is MetSox?
As I said there's no point in this argument. If you scroll through the Dallas forum a bunch of us have had this argument. I'll type it all out again but I'm definitely avoiding this thread like the plague afterwards. :P

Tony Romo is statistically the best QB Dallas has ever had. He's also top 5 in CAREER QBR and if not for pop-media driven storylines he wouldn't be regarded as the QB who chokes. He'd be regarded as the QB who puts it all on the line in order to keep his team in the game.

Remove Romo from any year since he became the starter of the team and they lose half their wins. He's played behind TERRIBLE offense lines his entire career and has consistently had a bottom 1/3 defense supporting his cause.

Even though I know the "stats mean nothing BSPN told me..." arguments are coming...

QBR Career:
1. Aaron Rodgers (29) 105.0 2005-2013 gnb
2. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM
3. Peyton Manning (36) 96.7 1998-2013 2TM
4. Tony Romo (32) 96.6 2004-2013 dal
5. Tom Brady (35) 96.1 2000-2013 nwe

Yards per Attempt Career:
1. Otto Graham+ 9.0 1946-1955 cle
2. Sid Luckman+ 8.4 1939-1950 chi
3. Aaron Rodgers (29) 8.2 2005-2013 gnb
Norm Van Brocklin+ 8.2 1949-1960 2TM
5. Steve Young+ 8.0 1985-1999 2TM
Tony Romo (32) 8.0 2004-2013 dal

Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) Career:
1. Aaron Rodgers (29) 7.57 2005-2013 gnb
2. Peyton Manning (36) 7.20 1998-2013 2TM
3. Tony Romo (32) 7.08 2004-2013 dal
4. Tom Brady (35) 6.99 2000-2013 nwe
5. Philip Rivers (31) 6.96 2004-2013 sdg

So according to QBR, YP/A, and ANY/A Romo is a top 5 QB ALL-TIME. Of course despite being the popular statistics for measuring QBs this isn't a complete picture.

He throws a lot of picks right? 26th ALL-TIME in terms of Pass Interception % (tied with Drew Brees).

He takes a lot of sacks right? 28th ALL-TIME in terms of sack % (tied with Troy Aikman who had the greatest line of all time for a number of years).

He cannot lead his team to victory though!?!?! Actually he has 19 game winning drives only 2 behind Troy Aikman and 1 behind Rich Gannon. Keep in mind he's still playing and with his defense Dallas is going to be behind many more times before he retires.

Tony Romo has played with supreme confident his entire career regarding making a play. He'll scramble when he should fall. He'll go downfield when he should be checking down. He's a risk taker and that's the reason Dallas has won as many games during his tenure. When you accept the good you have to accept the bad as well. Since he's constantly pushing it means more turnovers.

Keep in mind Dallas scoring 48 points was the MOST POINTS A LOSING TEAM HAS EVER SCORED. Tony Romo did play terrible though. 25/36 70% completion. 506 yards (12th highest ALL TIME), 5 TDs to 1 INT, and AY/A of 15.58.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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dez bryant for a year, jason witten and, what, exactly? a bunch of journeymen and average on the best day of their career players.

and no one's saying he's 'lacked talent to succeed', whatever that means. let's not turn this into a sam bradford-esque 'he just needs weapons/worst qb ever' conversation. he's led a ****** team to wins it wouldn't have otherwise gotten. i have no earthly idea how you look at that team over the last half decade and call them anything but mediocre on their best day, unless it's another divisional rivalry thing.
He had Dez for 3 years now. Witten his whole career, he had TO for 3 or maybe 4 years (I think 4), he had healthy Austin for 2, he's had his share of weapons.

You can make an argument that his OL hasn't been great at times, but keep in mind the expectations of OL play on this forum are incredibly unrealistic at times. Everyone wants the 90s Cowboys OL and that just isn't gonna happen. Also keep in mind that Dallas's offensive line has graded out very well this year, and overall has graded out middle of the pack for most of his career. Hardly a David Carr like situation.

His defensive talent has been shakey at times. That is true. But let's be fair here, you can't tell me that he puts up great numbers but then disregard the skill position talent that he's been blessed to have around him his whole career. That's part of the reason why his numbers are so good.

His inability to win more games lately is largely due to defensive shortcomings and costly mistakes at inopportune times, but he's had plenty of talent on offense around him.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:18 AM    (permalink
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Dez was pretty bad ass the day he walked into the league. One of the bigger problems with Romo that you just don't see in the box scores is his refusal to throw guys open.

When you break down the 22 you see a lot of plays downfield that could be made that he doesn't pull the trigger on because he makes the easier throw underneath to wide open crossing routes, or Witten on his option routes, or flats with the RBs. He just recently has been throwing Dez open and the results are starting to show. But Dez has been a monster for awhile now, it just took Tony a little time to trust him enough to throw him open.

No qb is perfect so I won't go into details of his problems when you break down the plays, but we're giving him the Alex Smith treatment right now. If you look at the 22 vs KC, you can make a strong argument that Romo was a big part of that loss. There were a lot of presnap reads that he didn't pull the trigger on bc he just refused to throw into tight windows.

On a key drive late in the game, the presnap read to Dez was so blatantly open, Dez looked at Romo before the snap, raised his hands up as if to say "I'm wide open on this one" and then ran his skinny, and he was WIDE OPEN. You hit him there, it's game. Dallas wins.

Instead Romo hits the flat for no gain (I believe it was a flat, either way it was a negative play). Those are the kind of plays in key moments of games where Romo routinely messes up and that's what Dallas fans are getting fed up with.

On the box score you don't notice things like that, but when you evaluate the plays individually, you see a repeated pattern of this and it gets tiring after awhile.

Now I'm not going to sit here and say every qb makes every play in these situations so Romo should too. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that. But more often than not, he's not making those reads in key situations. And after seeing him make these routine mistakes for 7 years running now, I'm personally just fed up with defending him.

I've entered the show me phase. I'm tired of it. Don't give me excuses anymore, just get it done. I've made excuses for this guy for a long time now. Even Dallas fans can tell you I've defended him for a long time now, but enough is enough already. Make the proper checks when the game is on the line.
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Old 10-09-2013, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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Can't we get a Cowboys fan that isn't a person that will bash Romo for anything? Where is MetSox?
Would you rather have Stafford or Romo?
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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First off, thank you all for this thread! Romo talk always gets my juices flowing. :)

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Romo is pretty good but he hasn't really accomplished anything is my beef. He has good stats but hasn't really done anything of note in his 7ish years of starting.
Yeah, I think everyone agrees there. The question is why? Is it him or his team?

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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
If you seriously think that the Bengals wouldn't take Tony Romo over Dalton in a second, I think you're a lost cause.
Your counter completely missed the point. The list was there for you to choose which of those QBs would swap spots with Romo and lead the Cowboys to a 3-13 record. I agree that Romo is not worse than every QB on that list. So do you think Dalton would have the Cowboys finish 3-13? ...and are there others on that list that you think would lead them to a 3-13 record?

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The beauty of this post is that despite the fact it does everything to disprove a previous point raised. The response is... Well this is nothing that we didn't already know.

Despite the fact that it was highlighted that Romo made multiple Game winning or Sealing drives all season last year.

the next post I liked was the Brees comparison. Because it highlighted the stupidity of pointing to interceptions as a prime indicator of how bad a QB is because get this. Brees throws INT's at a higher rate then Romo on a season by season basis. That was glossed over and laughed off in the "You really want to compare Brees to Romo". Despite the fact that the Saints are a much better managed team with an infinitely better Coach. That post wasn't directly comparing Brees with Romo. Just pointing out the silliness of saying INT's are a direct indicator of how good a QB is.

The last issue I wanted to point out is that Romo is NOT A ******* BUS DRIVER. He's a terrible bus driver. Even in his best bus driving season(26 TD's 9 INT's) he still blew it in the playoffs against the Vikings. This team has been trying to take Romo's balls away since the first full season with T.O because they are afraid of the Romoplosion. The fact is. It's going to happen anyway so embrace it and use him to put up as many points as humanly possible and hope the D can stop the team if and when Romo does his thing.
What did njx's post disprove? All it was was the same thing said differently. Feel free to itemize the enlightenment.

As for INT being an indicator of how good a QB is, I'm sorry but I do think that it merits weight. That single stat alone cannot be used to form your ENTIRE basis of a player, but NOBODY ever said or tried to infer that. Any comparison between Romo and Brees should stop before finishing the sentence. Using Brees' interception rate to justify Romo's interception rate as being ok is an exercise in epic failure.

Lastly, I think we see the definition of "bus driver" differently. Not saying yours is wrong, but if you think of it as "handcuffing" Romo or playing a conservative style of football in order to minimize his mistakes, then that's a point I wasn't trying to discuss. My definition of a "bus driver QB" is someone that can be the QB on a good team and win games by not asking him to do much. Someone who needs an excellent supporting cast and great coaching in order to win. I think Alex Smith is a great example of this right now.

Romo's problem is that he doesn't have a bus driver mentality. I applaud him for trying to carry the team on his back. I applaud him for thinking he can. The fact of the matter is that he hasn't shown the ability to deliver when we've needed him most. He has won us some great memorable games! The collapses are just as heartbreaking. Romo threads come up every year. If you looked back in time I have been ON the side defending my brains out for him. At what point is enough is enough? At what point will you start to believe your eyes and not your heart? I'll say this. When he shows it to me, then I will be a believer. But right now, he's the type of QB that needs a great supporting cast to win. The Cowboys have to be able to establish a strong running game that takes the pressure of Romo to have to air it out. Eventually it catches up to him no matter how miraculous he is in flashes. Throw in a strong defense and I think Romo can drive the bus. After all this time, I think that fact is proven. Romo needs a VERY strong team around him. My fear is that I'm wrong because he already showed me in 2008 when the Cowboys sent 13 players to the Pro Bowl that even that wasn't enough.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Remember everyone was calling for this **** last season right before it happened?



Same with this past Sunday.



October of last season.

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Old 10-09-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Here is an interesting stat. Since 2006 (the year Tony Romo became a starter) the Cowboys have had 28 4th quarter or overtime drives end as a result of an INT. Over the same time frame, the Giants have 41. A few of those Dallas drives (I believe 4) were while Bledsoe was the quarterback in 2006. So really is it 24 vs. 41. In that time, Manning has missed zero games while Romo has missed 13, so I'm betting Romo's number goes down a bit.

So Eli has twice as many 4th-quarter or overtime INTs as Romo and he is considered clutch but Romo is a chocker? Oh it must be because Romo does it late in games, right?

Wrong. Since 2007, Romo has 7 INTs in the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter. Manning has 10. Now like I said earlier, Romo has played fewer games. But even if he had played 101 games rather than 88, his number would increase to only 8 (assuming his INT rate stays equal). So Eli has 3 (or let's say 2 to be fair) more INTs in the last 4 minutes of the game than Romo but Eli is clutch while Romo is a chocker?

Oh, but Romo throws the INTs when they are behind, thus killing the Cowboys chances of winning. Really? Still in the last 4 minutes of the game, Romo has 4 INTs while trailing. Eli? He has 6.

So, let's recap:

More 4th quarter INTs: Eli
More INTs in the last 4 minutes: Eli
More INTs in the last 4 minutes while trailing: Eli
More Clutch: Eli???????

The myth of Romo being a chocker is completely media driven and I question the football knowledge of anyone who spouts it. The facts just do not back it up.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
But what suggests he threw the INT because it was a big game? He threw 15 INT's against the Bears, but that wasn't a ' big game', so is Romo better in pressure situations? Looking at such small sample sizes is so stupid. Romo is just inconsistent, some games he's gonna lead the Cowboys to 48 points, other games he's going to throw 5 interceptions. It is what it is. But he's still a relatively good QB.
I agree with the inconsistency and how he can handle pressure well. I think Romo enjoys the challenge. He's got the confidence to believe that he can do the job and in low to mid pressure situations, he has shown that he can thrive. It's the high pressure situations that usually (not always) ultimately end in some chaotic mistake.

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Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken View Post
Romo is what he is. You take the good with the bad. It's usually good, but it can get bad. After all, he modeled his game after Favre's. Is he the best QB in the league? No, but on a given day he can be. If I were a Cowboys fan I'd be excited about the offense given that they kept pace with the Broncos for 4 quarters. Starting over with a rookie when you have Bryant and Murray at the top of their game would be foolish. The key is getting the defensive problems figured out. Cowboys haven't fielded an elite defense in years.
I really was pleased with the way he played against the Broncos and even after the loss, I did not pin this loss at him. Anyone in the Cowboys forum could atest. Of course we want more of this. Early in the season there was frustration over the playcalling because we played dink and dunk offense. Perhaps it was Callahan's rust showing but it was the West Coast Offense short game w/out the occassional deep attack. We did the short, short, short stuff to draw the defense in and then never tested them deep. So FINALLY things seem to have opened up more vertically (actually looked more like Garrett took over the gameplan for this game - as a student of Ernie Zampese/Air Coryell vertical offense) and we all hope it stays that way for good. Even if it means seeing Romo make mistakes. That dink and dunk stuff was atrocious. The loss was definitely pointed towards the defense.... or should I say the greatness of Peyton Manning. Not Romo, even though he had a chance and gave it away.

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Originally Posted by TheFinisher View Post
When Romo got the ball back with 2 min left and the score tied, everyone watching it was thinking the exact same thing.... "don't **** this up Romo".

It's what he does. Heard this stat on the radio yesterday... Cowboys have been tied late in the 4th Quarter 8 times since 2010, he has thrown an interception in all 8 games.
Never heard that point made before. Not sure about the accuracy but definitely close enough to pass the memory test.
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Here is an interesting stat. Since 2006 (the year Tony Romo became a starter) the Cowboys have had 28 4th quarter or overtime drives end as a result of an INT. Over the same time frame, the Giants have 41. A few of those Dallas drives (I believe 4) were while Bledsoe was the quarterback in 2006. So really is it 24 vs. 41. In that time, Manning has missed zero games while Romo has missed 13, so I'm betting Romo's number goes down a bit.

So Eli has twice as many 4th-quarter or overtime INTs as Romo and he is considered clutch but Romo is a chocker? Oh it must be because Romo does it late in games, right?

Wrong. Since 2007, Romo has 7 INTs in the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter. Manning has 10. Now like I said earlier, Romo has played fewer games. But even if he had played 101 games rather than 88, his number would increase to only 8 (assuming his INT rate stays equal). So Eli has 3 (or let's say 2 to be fair) more INTs in the last 4 minutes of the game than Romo but Eli is clutch while Romo is a chocker?

Oh, but Romo throws the INTs when they are behind, thus killing the Cowboys chances of winning. Really? Still in the last 4 minutes of the game, Romo has 4 INTs while trailing. Eli? He has 6.

So, let's recap:

More 4th quarter INTs: Eli
More INTs in the last 4 minutes: Eli
More INTs in the last 4 minutes while trailing: Eli
More Clutch: Eli???????

The myth of Romo being a chocker is completely media driven and I question the football knowledge of anyone who spouts it. The facts just do not back it up.
What about in the last three minutes of the 4th? Or the last two minutes of the 4th? The last minute?
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Romo

Last three minutes: 4
Last three minutes trailing: 1
Last two minutes: 2
Last two minutes trailing: 1
Last minute: 2
Last minute trailing: 1

Manning

Last three minutes: 9
Last three minutes trailing: 5
Last two minutes: 4
Last two minutes trailing: 2
Last minute: 1
Last minute trailing: 0
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Old 10-09-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
Here is an interesting stat. Since 2006 (the year Tony Romo became a starter) the Cowboys have had 28 4th quarter or overtime drives end as a result of an INT. Over the same time frame, the Giants have 41. A few of those Dallas drives (I believe 4) were while Bledsoe was the quarterback in 2006. So really is it 24 vs. 41. In that time, Manning has missed zero games while Romo has missed 13, so I'm betting Romo's number goes down a bit.

So Eli has twice as many 4th-quarter or overtime INTs as Romo and he is considered clutch but Romo is a chocker? Oh it must be because Romo does it late in games, right?

Wrong. Since 2007, Romo has 7 INTs in the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter. Manning has 10. Now like I said earlier, Romo has played fewer games. But even if he had played 101 games rather than 88, his number would increase to only 8 (assuming his INT rate stays equal). So Eli has 3 (or let's say 2 to be fair) more INTs in the last 4 minutes of the game than Romo but Eli is clutch while Romo is a chocker?

Oh, but Romo throws the INTs when they are behind, thus killing the Cowboys chances of winning. Really? Still in the last 4 minutes of the game, Romo has 4 INTs while trailing. Eli? He has 6.

So, let's recap:

More 4th quarter INTs: Eli
More INTs in the last 4 minutes: Eli
More INTs in the last 4 minutes while trailing: Eli
More Clutch: Eli???????

The myth of Romo being a chocker is completely media driven and I question the football knowledge of anyone who spouts it. The facts just do not back it up.
First off, the perception of Eli is also media driven, imo. Winning 2 SBs can go miles towards helping a guy out. Let's not pretend otherwise.

The other thing is, your argument only takes into account games where Tony has thrown a pick in the last 4 min of the game. While that is the ultimate choke, failing to covert and move downfield for a winning score is also choking. It doesn't HAVE TO end in an INT. How about missing a wide open guy and/or failing to convert on 3rd down and forcing to kick the ball back to the other team only to see them run out the game... Is that not also choking? How about not being able to run out the clock and forcing to kick only to see the other team score on the winning dive? There are so many ways to describe a loss in a pressure situation. I don't want to get into semantics, but is the word "choking" too strongly used? I don't want to argue the word, I just want to discuss his failures.

We know it's not fair to point blame solely on one guy and solely on the QB, but it is what it is. Sometimes perception may not be based on fact, but Tony Romo's perception is not exactly a glowing one for all and to say that it's media driven... well, that could be a perception as well since we've seen him come up short again and again.
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Old 10-09-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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As I said there's no point in this argument. If you scroll through the Dallas forum a bunch of us have had this argument. I'll type it all out again but I'm definitely avoiding this thread like the plague afterwards. :P

Tony Romo is statistically the best QB Dallas has ever had. He's also top 5 in CAREER QBR and if not for pop-media driven storylines he wouldn't be regarded as the QB who chokes. He'd be regarded as the QB who puts it all on the line in order to keep his team in the game.

Remove Romo from any year since he became the starter of the team and they lose half their wins. He's played behind TERRIBLE offense lines his entire career and has consistently had a bottom 1/3 defense supporting his cause.

Even though I know the "stats mean nothing BSPN told me..." arguments are coming...

QBR Career:
1. Aaron Rodgers (29) 105.0 2005-2013 gnb
2. Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM
3. Peyton Manning (36) 96.7 1998-2013 2TM
4. Tony Romo (32) 96.6 2004-2013 dal
5. Tom Brady (35) 96.1 2000-2013 nwe

Yards per Attempt Career:
1. Otto Graham+ 9.0 1946-1955 cle
2. Sid Luckman+ 8.4 1939-1950 chi
3. Aaron Rodgers (29) 8.2 2005-2013 gnb
Norm Van Brocklin+ 8.2 1949-1960 2TM
5. Steve Young+ 8.0 1985-1999 2TM
Tony Romo (32) 8.0 2004-2013 dal

Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) Career:
1. Aaron Rodgers (29) 7.57 2005-2013 gnb
2. Peyton Manning (36) 7.20 1998-2013 2TM
3. Tony Romo (32) 7.08 2004-2013 dal
4. Tom Brady (35) 6.99 2000-2013 nwe
5. Philip Rivers (31) 6.96 2004-2013 sdg

So according to QBR, YP/A, and ANY/A Romo is a top 5 QB ALL-TIME. Of course despite being the popular statistics for measuring QBs this isn't a complete picture.

He throws a lot of picks right? 26th ALL-TIME in terms of Pass Interception % (tied with Drew Brees).

He takes a lot of sacks right? 28th ALL-TIME in terms of sack % (tied with Troy Aikman who had the greatest line of all time for a number of years).

He cannot lead his team to victory though!?!?! Actually he has 19 game winning drives only 2 behind Troy Aikman and 1 behind Rich Gannon. Keep in mind he's still playing and with his defense Dallas is going to be behind many more times before he retires.

Tony Romo has played with supreme confident his entire career regarding making a play. He'll scramble when he should fall. He'll go downfield when he should be checking down. He's a risk taker and that's the reason Dallas has won as many games during his tenure. When you accept the good you have to accept the bad as well. Since he's constantly pushing it means more turnovers.

Keep in mind Dallas scoring 48 points was the MOST POINTS A LOSING TEAM HAS EVER SCORED. Tony Romo did play terrible though. 25/36 70% completion. 506 yards (12th highest ALL TIME), 5 TDs to 1 INT, and AY/A of 15.58.
Everytime I see Romo's stats put in the same category as Rodgers, Brady, Manning, I HATE IT!!! It doesn't take a genius to know that he's not in that category!

The worst part is that later on you will say, why is Brady and Peyton in this discussion and act like I brought them into it in the first place!

I love the gunslinging Romo more than the captain checkdown suit he wears sometimes, and I am willing to accept the good with the bad. I am willing to say he wins games and he competes hard, and that he needs a lot of help to accomplish that. Seems to me like you can't accept the bad, which is what you're not willing to acknowledge. Why is it always someone else's fault except for Romo?
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