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Old 10-09-2013, 10:53 PM    (permalink
The Alex
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Default Broncos Offense Discussion Thread

I have a feeling we're gonna need a thread to contain all the talk about the Broncos, their unfathomable offense, and their chase for multiple records by the end of the year. As a team, the Broncos are on pace to break six offensive records:

Points
Record: 589, Patriots, 2007
Broncos now: 230
Broncos pace: 736

Touchdowns
Record: 75, Patriots, 2007
Broncos now: 29
Broncos pace: 93

First Downs
Record: 444, Patriots, 2012
Broncos now: 147
Broncos pace: 470

Passing First Downs
Record: 280, Saints, 2011
Broncos now: 97
Broncos pace: 310

Yards Gained
Record: 7,474, Saints, 2011
Broncos now: 2,449
Broncos pace: 7,837

Fewest Interceptions
Record: 5, 1960 Browns, 1966 Packers, 1990 Chiefs, 1990 Giants, 2010 Patriots, 2011 49ers (six-way tie)
Broncos now: 1
Broncos pace: 3

Peyton Manning is on pace to break seven different single season passing records:

Passer Rating
Record: 122.5, Aaron Rodgers, 2011
Peyton Manning now: 136.4

Completions
Record: 468, Drew Brees, 2011
Peyton Manning now: 150
Peyton Manning pace: 480

Completion Percentage
Record: 71.23, Drew Brees, 2011
Peyton Manning now: 75.8

Passing Yards
Record: 5,476, Drew Brees, 2011
Peyton Manning now: 1,884
Peyton Manning pace: 6,029

Passing Touchdowns
Record: 50, Tom Brady, 2007
Peyton Manning now: 20
Peyton Manning pace: 64

Most Games, Four Or More Touchdown Passes
Record: 6, Dan Marino, 1984 and Peyton Manning, 2004 (tie)
Peyton Manning now: 3
Peyton Manning pace: 10

Most Games, 400 Or More Yards Passing
Record: 4, Dan Marino, 1984
Peyton Manning now: 2
Peyton Manning pace: 6

Most Games, 300 Or More Yards Passing
Record: 13, Drew Brees, 2011
Peyton Manning now: 5
Peyton Manning pace: 16

Obviously, their pace will be different from how they eventually finish, but it'll damn interesting watch over the rest of the year. Is this the best offense ever assembled?
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
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Old 10-09-2013, 10:56 PM    (permalink
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Best offense ever assembled. Maybe. We'll see. But at the same time the rules are just so slanted towards the offense, it's not that big of a shock that this is happening. Always have to take it with a grain of salt. I will say that even for the slanted rules, this is remarkable thus far. It will be a real disappointment if they don't win the Super Bowl now.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:00 PM    (permalink
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But his arm's shot and he'll never be the same he should retire or whatever.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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I'll still take the 1998 Broncos. I wonder if the lack of a true run game and suspect defense will come back to screw them over.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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I'll still take the 1998 Broncos. I wonder if the lack of a true run game and suspect defense will come back to screw them over.
The 98 Broncos were by far a more complete team, but in terms of just offense, I'd still take this team, even without the balanced rushing attack.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
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Old 10-09-2013, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Lack of a running game, yet they are still averaging a decent almost 120 yards a game...while still throwing for 370 a game.
Knowshon Moreno is on pace for basically 1,100 yards and 12 TD's.
Hillman for 400 yards.
4 WR's/TE's are on pace for 1,000 receiving yards. 3 on pace for double digit TD's

Welker's on pace for 99 catches
D. Thomas on pace for 108 catches
Decker on pace for 92 catches
J. Thomas on pace for 86 catches

Peyton Manning has thrown 5 more touchdown passes than the Broncos have punted all year.

I know it is way early in the year still, but seriously, this is a historic start to a season for an offense.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:56 AM    (permalink
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I'd really like to see this offense go up against a defense with a pulse. Unfortunately we won't see it this weekend, but maybe soon.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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Better receivers for Manning: Now or 2004 Colts?

Harrison/Wayne/Stokely/Clark

v

Thomas/Welker/Decker/Thomas
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:41 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
Better receivers for Manning: Now or 2004 Colts?

Harrison/Wayne/Stokely/Clark

v

Thomas/Welker/Decker/Thomas
I love how you listed Welker second in that order, you sneaky bee. As if Welker is their #2 receiver and not their #3 in every meaningful way.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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I love how you listed Welker second in that order, you sneaky bee. As if Welker is their #2 receiver and not their #3 in every meaningful way.
Welker has been money as **** this year. He is a big step up from Stokley last year. 7 TDs already!

Manning + Welker is a match made in heaven!
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:44 AM    (permalink
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Matt Bowen wrote a good piece on the Broncos offense yesterday, and as a guy who has always loved watching Manning implode down the strecth I have to say I am pretty worried this year.

Firstly, his arm is not good. Passes come out wobbly and he can't make the most difficult throws, but who cares with how the offense is perfectly tailored to his strengths.

Secondly, the weapons he has (barring injury) make what he wants to do virtually unstoppable.

Look at it this way:

Neither Decker or D. Thomas can be consistently covered one on one. That is a matchup he will look to exploit consistently. Therefore, despite the running game being "only" solid teams are forced to play basic coverage shells or risk giving up big plays on the outside.

When teams do that it leaves either Welker or J. Thomas in a favourable matchup underneath.

Teams have to play a risk/reward game when it comes to disguising their coverages against Manning. The book on Peyton was always to disguise what you are doing to the last moment and hope he either holds the ball or makes a mistake. The risk comes when you don't get in position in time and he gets the ball out so quickly. In saying that, by simply lining up and saying beat us, he will, consistently.

We all knew this about Manning but when looking at what they like to do offensively you begin to understand why he is playing so well.

The concepts the Broncos like to run on a regular basis aren't revolutionary by any means, however when you combine a QB with Manning's intellect and accuracy with WRs and TEs who can recognise coverages and get open it's going to be a long day for your defense.

It may take a defense who can dominate the line of scrimmage with only 4 men while also being good in coverage who can slow down the Broncos. I am really looking forward to the Chiefs games, although I don't think KC will be able to score enough to beat them, though any given Sunday and all that stuff
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:06 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by niel89 View Post
Better receivers for Manning: Now or 2004 Colts?

Harrison/Wayne/Stokely/Clark

v

Thomas/Welker/Decker/Thomas
I'd go with the 2004 Colts if only for the fact Harrison and Wayne are two of the top 25 receivers of all-time.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:09 AM    (permalink
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I'd go with the 2004 Colts if only for the fact Harrison and Wayne are two of the top 25 receivers of all-time.
I would probably agree although it is selling Stokley and Clark short by simply saying that. They were 2 of the top players at their respective positions at that time.

In a simple comparison:

Harrison > D. Thomas
Wayne > Decker
Stokley < Welker
Clark > J. Thomas
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:52 AM    (permalink
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The only thing that can derail this offense is injury to 2 or more weapons. (knock on wood)

Adding Welker and J Thomas just pushes it over the top. Stokley and Tamme/Dreessen were solid role players last year at their positions and now both spots are upgraded considerably with guys who can be game changers. Welker has 7 TDs and Orange Julius has 6 already.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:57 AM    (permalink
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The only thing that can derail this offense is injury to 2 or more weapons. (knock on wood)

Adding Welker and J Thomas just pushes it over the top. Stokley and Tamme/Dreessen were solid role players last year at their positions and now both spots are upgraded considerably with guys who can be game changers. Welker has 7 TDs and Orange Julius has 6 already.
I think an injury to D. Thomas could significantly slow the offense down more than anything else. If Decker becomes the top priority outside then he can see safety coverage over the top and he doesn't have the same ability to beat double coverage that Thomas does. If the defense can single whoever the other outside threat is, double Decker it leaves more resources to get creative in the middle of the field
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:34 AM    (permalink
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I'll still take the 1998 Broncos. I wonder if the lack of a true run game and suspect defense will come back to screw them over.
I don't think it will. The Broncos are on pace to run for 1856 yards. That would be the third most yards ever for a Peyton Manning led team. The 3.8 yards per carry are about average. The truth is Manning's rushing attack has been below average (partially because his teams typically throw more than most).
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Old 10-10-2013, 08:56 AM    (permalink
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that's absolutely untrue. please watch a game in 2013.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...st-three-weeks

the only throw that even sort of 'fluttered' was a touch pass to welker that hit him perfectly in stride.

the rest i agree with.
If his passes aren't wobbling then that is something new. He has always thrown an ugly ball. But it's never mattered.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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that's absolutely untrue. please watch a game in 2013.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...st-three-weeks

the only throw that even sort of 'fluttered' was a touch pass to welker that hit him perfectly in stride.

the rest i agree with.
I didn't say it to detract from Manning but you can't say his passes are getting there with zip. I can't remember if it was week 1 or week 2, think it was week 1 were he threw a quick bubble screen to Thomas that bounced about a yard in front of him. The point I was making is it doesn't matter. Manning has never had a Flacco arm but this year the way he is playing combined with his weapons and offensive system are creating sort of a perfect storm
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
that's absolutely untrue. please watch a game in 2013.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap200...st-three-weeks

the only throw that even sort of 'fluttered' was a touch pass to welker that hit him perfectly in stride.

the rest i agree with.
Or the terrible under throw (int) to a wide open streaking Decker just last weekend, where it did genuinely look like he had trouble getting the ball that far.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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*shrug* when it's one or two throws a game, that's not a problem getting the ball there. that's a ****** throw.
Sure when its one or two throws like that a game at the start of the season you can sort of overlook it, but I think people can wonder whether that will become more of an issue as the season progresses and the weather gets colder. Probably wont make of a difference but I do think there are valid questions regarding Manning's arm strength right now.

Not that that matters through the first few weeks thus far obviously, but I just think its a fair point to deliberate about.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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Sure when its one or two throws like that a game at the start of the season you can sort of overlook it, but I think people can wonder whether that will become more of an issue as the season progresses and the weather gets colder. Probably wont make of a difference but I do think there are valid questions regarding Manning's arm strength right now.

Not that that matters through the first few weeks thus far obviously, but I just think its a fair point to deliberate about.
This is pretty much where I am coming from, and really in this offense it isn't a major concern. If Manning was regularly asked to make 18 yard outs and play in a shot play offense like Baltimore's then he would struggle.

Yes Manning's arm may be slightly better than last year but it is still a below average arm in the NFL, but similarly to when people get all flusterred when they see a prospect with a cannon, a QB does not need to have a rocket arm. Arm strength is an overrated quality in QBs. Brees and Brady have below average arms too, however these 3 guys have consistently been in the conversation for the best QBs in the NFL.

The Broncos offense is designed to get guys open in the short to intermediate areas and Manning's recognition skills and accuracy are so good he doesn't need to laser throws into closing windows on a regular basis.

Manning is the definition of a touch passer right now. I would take a touch passer with great accuracy in an offense designed to maximise YAC over a strong armed guy who can make wow throws but doesn't have the accuracy or intellect to be consistently moving the offense down the field. Basically I would take Manning, Brees, Brady (although Brady's accuracy has gone to **** this year) over Stafford, Flacco etc any day of the week.

Really I don't see the issue with what I posted. Yes Manning has shown he can get the ball to where it needs to go but he isn't asked to do what he can't do, which is a compliment to both him and the offensive system.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:40 AM    (permalink
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Why are we debating whether or not Manning throws with zip? He's on pace to break every single QB record while also leading his team on a stupid pace to break team records...

Also noteworthy to say that the ones trying to poke holes in Manning are Patriot fans... Is this some sort of hate extension from previous years?

Manning has NEVER thrown a pretty spiral but they have been accurate and have remained so this season. His deep ball has been fine. He hasn't regressed into Chad Pennington and he certainly is the best QB in the league right now.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:44 AM    (permalink
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I made two comments, clearly Im seething with Manning hate. Speaking about arm strength also hasnt done anything to diminish Mannings accomplishments this season or the fact hes going to break every record either (neither one of us have stated it wasnt uber impressive). Not sure what being a Patriots fan has had to with the discussion on his arm strength right now and whether that should be a concern come later.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Why are we debating whether or not Manning throws with zip? He's on pace to break every single QB record while also leading his team on a stupid pace to break team records...

Also noteworthy to say that the ones trying to poke holes in Manning are Patriot fans... Is this some sort of hate extension from previous years?

Manning has NEVER thrown a pretty spiral but they have been accurate and have remained so this season. His deep ball has been fine. He hasn't regressed into Chad Pennington and he certainly is the best QB in the league right now.
Not poking holes in his game. I was merely stating my personal opinion of what Manning is right now. I also stated that arm strength is a majorly overrated quality in QBs. Accuracy, intelligence and the right system trumps pretty much everything.

Also, in what way have I disparaged Manning in this thread? Manning is playing better than I have ever seen a QB play thus far in the season, including Brady's best. Not arguing that what Manning has done this year trumps Brady's best seasons so far. Assuming he keeps up at this pace or even drops off a little he will shatter records.

I also wasn't commenting on Manning throwing a "pretty" ball. There are tough throws to make in the NFL that require plus arm strength. There are maybe 5 or 6 QBs in the NFL who can make them and maybe only Rodgers makes them accurately on a regular basis. That's not a criticism of Manning, that's simply my personal opinion. And throwing an accurate deep ball does not mean you have a strong arm. It's throws you have to get out fast into a closing window on a rope. If a QB is on the right hash and his WR runs an out over 15 yards to the far side of the field that is an incredibly difficult throw to make that very few NFL QBs can make.

I actually think I have been quite complimentary of not only Manning but the Broncos offense as a whole, because quite frankly anyone who isn't is simply deluding themselves. We are in an era of record breaking offensive play and the Broncos have been better than anyone in history
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:50 AM    (permalink
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He won't best Brees' yards
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