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Old 10-10-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
Eazy Picks
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no definitely they do not draft a QB. They have a franchise QB to rebuild around, and thats what theyll do.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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What happened to the rosebud name? I liked that one :(
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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You're allowing 37 points a game.... Turnovers are a problem, but you're allowing 37 points a game. It's impossible to argue that they've been decent.
A large chunk of that comes at the end of games when they're just exhausted from being out on the field for so long and the whole team just collapses. Against the Chiefs and Broncos it was our Defense that was keeping us in those games for as long as we were in them. Same was true of the Panthers game where Eli got sacked eighty billion times. Of the games I've seen, missed all but our first scoring drive of the eagles game, the Dallas game was the only game where I really had any gripes about our defense in anything other than the pass rush. We're solid against the run and the secondary's played well. Maybe decent is too much, but the defense has done a lot more to carry it's weight than the rest of our team, despite our pass rush being MIA with JPP still not at 100%. That's why if JPP keeps getting more confident in his back and getting in better shape, we add Clowney, fire Fewell and can get Moore on the field I actually would be fine with our D. Focus everything else on fixing the offensive line so that our offense can put a drive together without having to hand the ball of to David Wilson every play and hope he can make some people miss.

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What happened to the rosebud name? I liked that one :(
I forgot my password and cause it's linked to an email I haven't used in forever I needed D-Unit to help me out...which he didn't.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I sometimes seriously wonder if people have any conception of how to build a football team through effective cap management. Ok I agree with you that the Giants are a lot further away from being a contender than some fans of that team may believe. However, trading away your 32 year old franchise passer to save $15 million is idiotic.

The Giants could cut these players and save $21,325,000 next season:

Snee- 7,250,000
Rolle- 7,250,000
Myers- 3,250,000
Baas- 1,775,000
Kiwi- 1,800,000

and that is by including the $19,325,000 in dead space that would roll off of the books in 2015. Boom, I just created plenty of cap space all while avoiding trading the best asset they have for an unknown quantity, and I saved them the opportunity to draft another high eschelon prospect in the draft.

The method you described is similar to the one the Jets took with Revis which was stupid. If a team has cap problems it's usually because it has a ton of overpaid vets, and hasn't drafted well in the past few years. The Jets had/have Holmes, Sanchez, Scott, Pace, Pouha, and Harris, and the Giants have the aforementioned guys. Cut the fat off your roster and deal with the dead money for a year. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than targeting your best player because he's the highest paid. He's the one actually earning his pay, and giving you a competitive advantage over other teams.
You're also forgetting that Tuck will be gone as well. So will Webster.

I don't see the doom and gloom everyone sees. Yes we need to start over. But we'll have the draft picks and cash to do so.

The Giants made the mistake of trying to squeeze one more year out of these veterans and they paid the price. The front office was smart enough not to extend these guys though so everyone is coming off of the books at the same time. We have over 20 free agents after this year.

So long story short, this is going to be a completely different team next year. We have a ton of cap space, and we'll have good draft positioning to do some damage.

So I don't see the doom and gloom everyone else sees. I see a terrible year this year, followed by a bounceback year next year. And no, trading Eli is stupid.

If we get 2 big free agents, say Brandon Albert and Jarius Byrd, that helps immensely. Move Beatty to RT, Pugh to G, draft a C in round 2, and bam, OL is shored up.

Byrd and Prince in the secondary is a good start. I like McBride, he has potential as a slot. If Hoseley can stay healthy for once he's got potential, and TT is good when his knee isn't being held by a string. So it's a start.

Draft Clowney, our DL will be good enough with a healthy JPP coming back and Clowney on the other side with Moore coming off of the bench. Hankins an some retreads are good enough at DT.

We'll be ok. It's gonna take a good offseason but we'll be ok with the right moves and a little bit of luck.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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no one else thinks they could still run the table?
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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no one else thinks they could still run the table?
Only Antrel Rolle. Haha. Although if they win tonight, I think they could run a few off in a row. That being said, I think they lose tonight.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I forgot my password and cause it's linked to an email I haven't used in forever I needed D-Unit to help me out...which he didn't.
How did you tell me about this? I don't even recall it. Do you want help?
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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I hope we don't rally, this team desperately needs the wakeup call of a truly horrific season, we've let bad coordinators stay for too long with too complacent of an old guard in the lockerroom. And getting a piece like clowney at the end of it makes it all the sweeter.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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How did you tell me about this? I don't even recall it. Do you want help?
It's fine, I sent you a PM from the one computer that had the password saved and let me login as Rosebud, and I think I may have posted about it in the RDT to, but it's fine, I had gotten over 10K so it was about time for a new account anyways, and this way was a lot smoother than getting banned plus I get to go back to the old name, so it worked out alright all around.
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We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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I hope we don't rally, this team desperately needs the wakeup call of a truly horrific season, we've let bad coordinators stay for too long with too complacent of an old guard in the lockerroom. And getting a piece like clowney at the end of it makes it all the sweeter.
I honestly don't think the coaching staff goes anywhere. I think the GM needs to go. He compiled this mess.

But at least you've come around to accepting that you're terrible. Next, you'll start to accept that Eli and JPP should be shopped.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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I personally liked Invisible Pink Unicorn the most cgf.
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Old 10-10-2013, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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I personally liked Invisible Pink Unicorn the most cgf.
lol I had forgotten about that one. yeah that was good.

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I honestly don't think the coaching staff goes anywhere. I think the GM needs to go. He compiled this mess.

But at least you've come around to accepting that you're terrible. Next, you'll start to accept that Eli and JPP should be shopped.
If Dinosaur doesn't retire he'll at least be forced to fire his coordinators.

And Reese most certainly does not, he at least deserves to pick his own coaching staff cause we've been contenders since he took over, one down season in the midst of a big roster turnover doesn't change that. If our OL sucks next year and o can't do anything than there's some discussion to be had, but if he goes out and gets a starter in FA and picks someone in the second so that the OL is fixed, then there's absolutely nothing even worth talking about.

EDIT: Here's my post from the Giants thread froma week and a half ago.

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Originally Posted by cgf (Rosebud) View Post
Eli, Wilson, Cruz, Nicks, Randle, Beatty, Pugh, JPP, Moore, Big Hank, Jacquain, Prince.

Those 12 are the only guys I absolutely want to be part of the team next year, beyond that there's some guys I'd hold onto provided they are cheap, Stevie Brown, Hosley, Web/TT/Ross, Rolle if he take a serious paycut, Paysinger, Rogers/Jenkins, Kiwi, Booty if he's cheap to re-sign, Mosley, Robinson, Scott if he shows progress and Nassib.

But beyond that I'm fine with just about everybody else being gone. At most that brings the number up to 27 guys on the whole team that I really want to see on the team next year, and many of those guys in the second group as rotational guys. That's a lot of new faces that could be coming in so I'd keep the oldies that still contribute and are cheap.

Not gunna have much choice but filling some holes in FA, fortunately our biggest need could be filled if Alex Mack hits the market.
I was forgetting about Will Hill because of his suspension, but that's about it. There's no delusion on our end about how many new pieces we need. The issue is how we value the pieces we do have, while acknowledging that a lot of those roster spots can be filled by just solid guys, as long as they are busting ass to prove themselves and believe in the coaching staff so they don't just crumble the way this years team is.
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We've already seen that your love is only capable of destroying.

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Old 10-10-2013, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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With them playing on Thursday night. Looking like they will be going 0-6. The D is a wreck. The Oline is worse than a wreck. Nicks will be a FA next year. And Eli will be 33 with a 20 million cap hit.


Do you draft a new QB if you get your hands on a Teddy Bridgewater or Brett Hundley?
Let's purge both systems, and offensively see what can happen. We have had this for 10 years, and past couple years now, I havent been happy with it. I would love to see a new system, and see what happens from there. I think we need an OL. That's step one.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Edit: Never mind. I need to read entire threads before posting.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Why do people think that Eli only has a max of 5 years left?

Tom Brady is 4 years older, and he looks like he could play for another 5 years himself (he probably won't, but with that situation in New England, I assume Brady will at least play as long as Bellichick is with the franchise plus a year).

Peyton Manning is actually 5 years older, he had a career-threatening neck injury and he is playing some of his best football ever. I don't think Peyton will be around much longer, but if Denver doesn't win a Superbowl this year, I could see him trying for another year or two.

And Brett Favre played till he was 40 (8 years past Eli's current age) and he also had some good play left him (minus his small tenure in New York lol).

I don't think there is any chance New York trades Eli unless a really young and arrogant coach comes in and messes up the organization (like McDaniels did in Denver).
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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lol I had forgotten about that one. yeah that was good.



If Dinosaur doesn't retire he'll at least be forced to fire his coordinators.

And Reese most certainly does not, he at least deserves to pick his own coaching staff cause we've been contenders since he took over, one down season in the midst of a big roster turnover doesn't change that. If our OL sucks next year and o can't do anything than there's some discussion to be had, but if he goes out and gets a starter in FA and picks someone in the second so that the OL is fixed, then there's absolutely nothing even worth talking about.
Since this is a draft forum and by nature we like to imagine fixes... let me give this a 5 min try and see if you like or don't like it. :)


Trade Nicks right now to ATL for a 3rd Rounder.
-- Randle is ready to step up.

Trade Eli right now to HOU for a 1st, 2nd, and Brandon Tate.
-- Who doesn't want to see Eli and Peyton in the same division? lol

Cut
Snee, Baas, Myers, Rolle

Let Walk
Webster, Tuck

Keep
Kiwi, Cruz

Sign
OT Brandon Albert
FS Jairus Byrd
LB Donald Butler

Draft
1st - DE Jadaveon Clowney, South Carolina
1st (HOU) - QB Taj Boyd, Clemson
2nd - OG David Yankey, Stanford
2nd (HOU) - WR Brandon Coleman, Rutgers
3rd - CB Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
3rd (ATL) - C Hroniss Grasu, Oregon
4th - TE Xavier Grimble, USC

Or you can try to patchwork your way back for another likely shortfall.

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Old 10-10-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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If Nicks leaves via FA, we get a 3rd round comp pick in all likelihood. There's absolutely no reason to trade him for anything less than a 2nd.

And trading Eli is not going to happen, nor should it happen.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:05 PM    (permalink
niel89
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
Why do people think that Eli only has a max of 5 years left?

Tom Brady is 4 years older, and he looks like he could play for another 5 years himself (he probably won't, but with that situation in New England, I assume Brady will at least play as long as Bellichick is with the franchise plus a year).

Peyton Manning is actually 5 years older, he had a career-threatening neck injury and he is playing some of his best football ever. I don't think Peyton will be around much longer, but if Denver doesn't win a Superbowl this year, I could see him trying for another year or two.

And Brett Favre played till he was 40 (8 years past Eli's current age) and he also had some good play left him (minus his small tenure in New York lol).

I don't think there is any chance New York trades Eli unless a really young and arrogant coach comes in and messes up the organization (like McDaniels did in Denver).
All those QBs are considerably better than Eli. Eli could play late in his career but good old QBs are rare.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:07 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I think when you talk about qbs who can play late into their careers, you have to take into consideration the following:

1. Arm strength
2. Durability
3. Style of play

Eli has plenty of arm strength. Even when he gets older and loses some zip he'll have enough to make all the throws. Eli is plenty durable. I think he holds the longest active streak for consecutive games (knock on wood). And his style of play is that of a pocket passer. He's not going to put himself into harms way.

Eli can easily play another 5 years. Easily. Probably more. The only concern I have is the neck injuries that both his brothers have had. It could be genetic and who knows when it gets to Eli.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
Bob Sanders Dreadlock
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Since this is a draft forum and by nature we like to imagine fixes... let me give this a 5 min try and see if you like or don't like it. :)


Trade Nicks right now to ATL for a 3rd Rounder.
-- Randle is ready to step up.

Trade Eli right now to HOU for a 1st, 2nd, and Brandon Tate.
-- Who doesn't want to see Eli and Peyton in the same division? lol


Cut
Snee, Baas, Myers, Rolle

Let Walk
Webster, Tuck

Keep
Kiwi, Cruz

Sign
OT Brandon Albert
FS Jairus Byrd
LB Donald Butler

Draft
1st - DE Jadaveon Clowney, South Carolina
1st (HOU) - QB Taj Boyd, Clemson
2nd - OG David Yankey, Stanford
2nd (HOU) - WR Brandon Coleman, Rutgers
3rd - CB Kyle Fuller, Virginia Tech
3rd (ATL) - C Hroniss Grasu, Oregon
4th - TE Xavier Grimble, USC

Or you can try to patchwork your way back for another likely shortfall.
1) You mean Ben Tate
2) Peyton no longer plays in the AFC South.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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1) You mean Ben Tate
2) Peyton no longer plays in the AFC South.
Awww donkey balls, I had a brain fart.
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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wow i kinda like that trade eli to houston idea
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:00 PM    (permalink
WCH
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Originally Posted by Bengalsrocket View Post
Why do people think that Eli only has a max of 5 years left?

Tom Brady is 4 years older, and he looks like he could play for another 5 years himself (he probably won't, but with that situation in New England, I assume Brady will at least play as long as Bellichick is with the franchise plus a year).

Peyton Manning is actually 5 years older, he had a career-threatening neck injury and he is playing some of his best football ever. I don't think Peyton will be around much longer, but if Denver doesn't win a Superbowl this year, I could see him trying for another year or two.

And Brett Favre played till he was 40 (8 years past Eli's current age) and he also had some good play left him (minus his small tenure in New York lol).

I don't think there is any chance New York trades Eli unless a really young and arrogant coach comes in and messes up the organization (like McDaniels did in Denver).
When you look at it on a longer timeline, the QBs who play beyond 38 are basically limited to Favre, and a bunch of guys who weren't career starters in the NFL. Usually QBs either retire or fall off a cliff sometime around 38. It's been an even harder wall than RBs at 30.

It's very possible that the fairly recent rule changes will allow these younger guys to play longer, but right now we really only have one actual data point to suggest that this could be the case. It's going to be interesting to see what Manning and Brady do over the next 2-3 years.

Last edited by WCH : 10-10-2013 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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love love love Eli to Houston but it's not even a remote possibility. Might as well say Peyton to Houston.
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Old 10-10-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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I hate it for us. When it comes time to replace Eli we need a top 5 pick, and granted that offseason could put us in position to pick that high next year, but that still seems awful. Especially if you just do everything else except for the Eli trade part.

And the nicks trade, if he walks he walks and we take the comp third, if we can resign him instead or franchise and trade him those are both much better options.
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