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Old 10-24-2013, 10:05 AM    (permalink
Bert Macklin
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Default Richard Sherman: "The NFL is the problem"

My new favorite player.

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A NASCAR driver understands that anything can happen during a race; his car could flip at 200 miles per hour. A boxer knows when he goes in the ring what’s happening to his body. Just like them, we understand this is a dangerous game with consequences not just in the short term, but for the rest of our lives. All of us NFL players, from wide receivers to defensive backs, chose this profession. Concussions are going to happen to cornerbacks who go low and lead with their shoulders, wide receivers who duck into contact, safeties who tackle high and linemen who run into somebody on every single play. Sometimes players get knocked out and their concussions make news, but more often it’s a scenario like mine, where the player walks away from a hit and plays woozy or blind.
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The players before us took that risk too, but they still sued the league because they felt like they were lied to about the long-term risks. Today, we’re fully educating guys on the risks and we’re still playing. We have not hidden from the facts.
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And that’s not to say most of us chose football for money. I played at 5 years old because it was fun. You meet all of your friends, you learn about teamwork, camaraderie, discipline, following directions, how to time manage and how to rely on other people. Do I think about the consequences 30 years down the line? No more than I think about the food I’m enjoying today, which could be revealed in 30 years to cause cancer or a heart murmur or something else unpredictable. Those are the things you cant plan for, and the kind of optimism I have right now is the only way to live. And the next time I get hit in the head and I can’t see straight, if I can, I’ll get back up and pretend like nothing happened. Maybe I’ll even get another pick in the process.

If you don’t like it, stop watching.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/23/richar...ns-in-the-nfl/

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Old 10-24-2013, 10:12 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
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Wow, I really didn't like Sherman, but that essentially sums up my thoughts on injuries in football perfectly.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:16 AM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Fully agree but unless you can get every single NFL player to sign a waiver releasing the NFL from ANY possibility of litigation, regardless of information brought to light at a later time, none of it matters. Hot coffee is hot remember. We all know it. Doesn't prevent you from getting sued when someone spills it on themselves.

To avoid this turning into a debate about McDonalds I'm well aware they passed on a settlement previously and probably deserved the eventual result. Merely using it to demonstrate the lawsuit culture and why the NFL has to proactively regulate play or risk getting hammered when these "educated" athletes run out of money and decide to litigate.

Once again though I FULLY agree and love Sherman for saying it. I also understand why the NFL has set the course they are on. Just a sad state of reality.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Yep, it's easy to talk tough, but that doesn't stop other players from filing lawsuits.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:27 AM    (permalink
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Yeah...

That is ridiculousy dumb. There is no mic drop there. He mentions NASCAR and the risks there. But NASCAR has done a ton to make it safer, especially since Dale died. Sherman's point seems to be "We know the risks so stop trying to make it safer." Then he goes on to say if he gets a concussion, he'll lie and go back out and play. The NFL is making all these rules because the players and teams can't be trusted to protect their players themselves.

And the food analogy? One of the worst ever. Could the food he is eating cause cancer? Sure, but we don't know that. We do know the long-term effects of head injuries in football. He isn't comparing apple-to-apples. He's comparing apples to undiscovered martian vegetables.

And more on his "we know the risk so stop watering down the game crap." Dumb. I know the risks of driving 100 MPH so stop putting 70 MPH speed limits on the highway. I know the risks of driving without a seatbelt so stop giving tickets for not wearing them. I know the risks of smoking so stop putting those warning lables on cigarettes. I know the risk of a unprotected sex with methed-up hookers. So Trojan, stop making condoms and let me dip my uncovered wick in everything a damn well please.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:45 AM    (permalink
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Yeah...

That is ridiculousy dumb. There is no mic drop there. He mentions NASCAR and the risks there. But NASCAR has done a ton to make it safer, especially since Dale died. Sherman's point seems to be "We know the risks so stop trying to make it safer." Then he goes on to say if he gets a concussion, he'll lie and go back out and play. The NFL is making all these rules because the players and teams can't be trusted to protect their players themselves.

And the food analogy? One of the worst ever. Could the food he is eating cause cancer? Sure, but we don't know that. We do know the long-term effects of head injuries in football. He isn't comparing apple-to-apples. He's comparing apples to undiscovered martian vegetables.

And more on his "we know the risk so stop watering down the game crap." Dumb. I know the risks of driving 100 MPH so stop putting 70 MPH speed limits on the highway. I know the risks of driving without a seatbelt so stop giving tickets for not wearing them. I know the risks of smoking so stop putting those warning lables on cigarettes. I know the risk of a unprotected sex with methed-up hookers. So Trojan, stop making condoms and let me dip my uncovered wick in everything a damn well please.
Exactly. Sherman just gave the world the reasoning and justification for the NFL doing what it has done with the concussion issue. There is a mic drop moment here, but it's Goodell/NFL doing the drop.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
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Yeah...

That is ridiculousy dumb. There is no mic drop there. He mentions NASCAR and the risks there. But NASCAR has done a ton to make it safer, especially since Dale died. Sherman's point seems to be "We know the risks so stop trying to make it safer." Then he goes on to say if he gets a concussion, he'll lie and go back out and play. The NFL is making all these rules because the players and teams can't be trusted to protect their players themselves.

And the food analogy? One of the worst ever. Could the food he is eating cause cancer? Sure, but we don't know that. We do know the long-term effects of head injuries in football. He isn't comparing apple-to-apples. He's comparing apples to undiscovered martian vegetables.

And more on his "we know the risk so stop watering down the game crap." Dumb. I know the risks of driving 100 MPH so stop putting 70 MPH speed limits on the highway. I know the risks of driving without a seatbelt so stop giving tickets for not wearing them. I know the risks of smoking so stop putting those warning lables on cigarettes. I know the risk of a unprotected sex with methed-up hookers. So Trojan, stop making condoms and let me dip my uncovered wick in everything a damn well please.
How is this dumb? Life is entirely about risk assessment, and balancing potential utility with the inherent risk of engaging in particular activities.

There are always going to be risks no matter what activity you engage in. The faster you drive, the higher correllation you are going to have with serious injury. The same with eating unhealthy food, and the higher correllation you're going to have with heart disease.

Playing football gives you a higher liklihood of head injuries. However, in exchange you're being paid a well above average salary.

I agree that in any industry you have a responsibility to hedge your risk as much as you can, but you have to do so in a way that doesn't dilute too much from what you wanted to accomplish in the first place. An employer has a duty of care required by law, the question is at what level has the NFL excercized that duty of care? By explaining the risk of head injuries, creating a process to ensure people who have head injuries don't enter the game, and penalizing blatant head shots I think the NFL has excercized that duty of care.

You could have Nascar drivers drive go-karts at 25 mph which would be a safer alternative to what they do now, but that would dilute the product too much.

Richard Sherman is asking the same questions about football. Have they gone too far, and diluted the product too much in the name of safety? I don't necessarily think so, but if players now are satisfied with the compensation to risk ratio, and are concerned with receiving less compensation for less risk, that is a conversation that should happen.

Theoretically there is a level where the NFL can regulate itself to a point where people stop tuning in because it isn't entertaining. We're not at that point yet, but there is always that chance.

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Old 10-24-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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I love Sherman, but what he says here is pretty stupid. He's right, players/teams aren't going to be thinking about the future, but that's why it's important. And fans don't give a ****, because why would they care about the guys playing now suffering serious problems later in their life? As long as we get some hard hitting football!!!!!!! It's pretty selfish, actually.

The NFL is doing the right thing, just for the wrong reasons
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I love Sherman, but what he says here is pretty stupid. He's right, players/teams aren't going to be thinking about the future, but that's why it's important. And fans don't give a ****, because why would they care about the guys playing now suffering serious problems later in their life? As long as we get some hard hitting football!!!!!!! It's pretty selfish, actually.

The NFL is doing the right thing, just for the wrong reasons
I agree with that, too. The PR is all about "Player Safety!" but it's really about mitigating the NFL's financial risk.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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The game itself just isn't safe, period. No matter how much rule bending or changing they do to the game of football, when you get athletes like this into a high speed collision game injuries are an inevitability. If the league were so concerned about their players health, they'd change it to flag football, or just ban it. Hilarious that were the selfish ones, when all we do is show up and buy a ticket to watch. Sherman said it best, no one is forcing them to play this game, not us, not the league: thats on the players. But trying to change the fundamentals of a violent game is like trying to make gladiating more safe or humane, it just isnt going to happen. Maybe it says something about us as a culture or species but the NFL got this popular because there were enough people willing to pay such prices for admittance and enough people capable of playing that signed up on their own accord to do so. The problem is the game itself, it just is. You can't prevent injuries like we see in a setting like this, its not possible without greatly altering the game thats being played. And if its too unsafe, then ban the game. But of course such a high profiting enterprise isnt going to just forfeit billions of dollars due to health issues its employees face down the road. So instead lets slap a few rules into the game that no one can possibly always coincide with, and call it good.

The game of football is the problem, not just the NFL. Its a violent sport and if its that serious of a problem it should just be banned outright. But we want to watch, players want to play, owners want to reap in the money.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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So the game is naturally violent and that means they should just accept players are going to get multiple concussions and not try and do anything to limit it? Why does it have to be either really violent with no one giving a ****, or flag football? It's still a violent game, even with the NFL trying to cut down on concussions. So, whats the problem with the NFL changing the rules, other than you getting a watered down version of what you want to watch? That's why it's selfish. Fans only care about the rule changes, because it effects them negatively.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:33 AM    (permalink
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I agree that in any industry you have a responsibility to hedge your risk as much as you can, but you have to do so in a way that doesn't dilute too much from what you wanted to accomplish in the first place. An employer has a duty of care required by law, the question is at what level has the NFL excercized that duty of care? By explaining the risk of head injuries, creating a process to ensure people who have head injuries don't enter the game, and penalizing blatant head shots I think the NFL has excercized that duty of care.
That is why what Sherman says is dumb. He wants the NFL to stop watering down the game. He is frustrated with the fines and penalties. But what is the NFL supposed to do? As evidenced by him saying he lies about concussions, simply telling people the risks of head injuries isn't going to make any difference. You have to hit the players where it hurts (money) and the team where it hurts (free first downs for the other team).

I would say the game is not being diluted much from what the NFL wants to accomplish. Maybe to the diehards on forums it is. But attendance, profits, ratings, and popularity are at all time highs. I'd argue that the rule changes and the focus on safety are doing exactly what the NFL wants, which is bring in stacks of cash.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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So the game is naturally violent and that means they should just accept players are going to get multiple concussions and not try and do anything to limit it? Why does it have to be either really violent with no one giving a ****, or flag football? It's still a violent game, even with the NFL trying to cut down on concussions. So, whats the problem with the NFL changing the rules, other than you getting a watered down version of what you want to watch? That's why it's selfish. Fans only care about the rule changes, because it effects them negatively.
SP has quietly become one of the smartest people on these boards. Pretty crazy thing to say about 12-year old British guy but well said.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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I'm sure Richard wouldn't be saying this if he were a WR. Why is he even complaining anyway? he's not a hitter
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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I don't see the game being diluted at all. I see DBs making big steps toward making proper tackles instead of trying to cream players with kill shots. I never enjoyed watching a pass-catcher getting his head taken off over the middle. Most of those plays could always have been what they are now: form tackles and shoulder pad hits. That is what the game is and always has been. The demographic of the forums (and web, in general) grew up on football that was glorified head shots, poor form tackling, and pile jumping garbage.

I say those of you (players, fans, or otherwise) that think the game is diluted should take a look inward. The NFL and the average consumer doesn't need to see head shots and pile jumping to enjoy a great game.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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Youre right, because with all these rule changes, weve seen a dramatic reduction in injuries and penalites within the game. Its totally safer now, and the NFL should be proud its done its job by protecting its players.

Or we can admit that theyre administering these rules to cover their own asses from player suits down the road and in fact the game is still just as violent as ever. Does suspending Merriweather one game for his thousandth illegal hit prevent players from getting hurt? Do all of Suh's fines stop players from getting injured? Knock it off, the NFL is doing this strictly for its own well being, not that of the players. Everyone involved is looking out for themselves. But yeah i'm the selfish one who watches multi millionaires play for multi billionaires who change these rules out of the interest of themselves, not the players.

So yes, I'm sorry but if the NFL were so concerned with player safety, there are about a hundred other options they could pursue if the concern was generally over the long term damage their players suffer- but it isn't, as weve seen evidenced season in and season out with the proposals of longer seasons, players not having to properly wear their equipment during games (how many games do helmets fly off? I never once lost my helmet in high school and it wasn't because I wasn't taking hits), selling "NFL hardest hits" videos on their store. This is hilarious that somehow the fans are the ones to blame, yet we have a player here suggesting the same exact thing many these "fans" are. Theyre all in it for the money and they want to have their cake and eat it too. The NFL would never go as far to blow up the fundamentals of the game that would be necessary to really make this game safe, Players are going to play through injuries and lie about them, and youre going to continue to watch. If the fans are so selfish, and are the real problem why the **** are you still watching then?
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I don't see the game being diluted at all. I see DBs making big steps toward making proper tackles instead of trying to cream players with kill shots. I never enjoyed watching a pass-catcher getting his head taken off over the middle. Most of those plays could always have been what they are now: form tackles and shoulder pad hits. That is what the game is and always has been. The demographic of the forums (and web, in general) grew up on football that was glorified head shots, poor form tackling, and pile jumping garbage.

I say those of you (players, fans, or otherwise) that think the game is diluted should take a look inward. The NFL and the average consumer doesn't need to see head shots and pile jumping to enjoy a great game.
But...but, HARD HITS!!!!!!! Blood shed!!!! Yeahhhh wooooooojgfhbb !!!!!!

Ugh. Ugh. YEAH MAN! football. MANs game! Concussions<333
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
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Youre right, because with all these rule changes, weve seen a dramatic reduction in injuries and penalites within the game. Its totally safer now, and the NFL should be proud its done its job by protecting its players.

Or we can admit that theyre administering these rules to cover their own asses from player suits down the road and in fact the game is still just as violent as ever. Does suspending Merriweather one game for his thousandth illegal hit prevent players from getting hurt? Do all of Suh's fines stop players from getting injured? Knock it off, the NFL is doing this strictly for its own well being, not that of the players. Everyone involved is looking out for themselves. But yeah i'm the selfish one who watches multi millionaires play for multi billionaires who change these rules out of the interest of themselves, not the players.

So yes, I'm sorry but if the NFL were so concerned with player safety, there are about a hundred other options they could pursue if the concern was generally over the long term damage their players suffer- but it isn't, as weve seen evidenced season in and season out with the proposals of longer seasons, players not having to properly wear their equipment during games (how many games do helmets fly off? I never once lost my helmet in high school and it wasn't because I wasn't taking hits), selling "NFL hardest hits" videos on their store. This is hilarious that somehow the fans are the ones to blame, yet we have a player here suggesting the same exact thing many these "fans" are. Theyre all in it for the money and they want to have their cake and eat it too. The NFL would never go as far to blow up the fundamentals of the game that would be necessary to really make this game safe, Players are going to play through injuries and lie about them, and youre going to continue to watch. If the fans are so selfish, and are the real problem why the **** are you still watching then?
Why would fining/suspending players for making these illegals hits not reduce the amount of serious injuries? No one said it was going to suddenly go away over night and no one has said the NFL is the holy god that has the perfect moral compass. As I said, they're doing the right things, but for the wrong reasons. But the NFL's motive doesn't really change anything.

I'm still watching, because i'm not moaning about the game being made safer. The whining is selfish, because you're whining about the game changes effecting you. I'm not one of the fans complaining? Understand?

And i think its already been established that what Sherman says is irrelevant. He's not thinking about the future. Immediate gratification vs delayed gratification. Someone has to step in and do something, thats what the NFL is, indirectly, doing.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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So the game is naturally violent and that means they should just accept players are going to get multiple concussions and not try and do anything to limit it? Why does it have to be either really violent with no one giving a ****, or flag football? It's still a violent game, even with the NFL trying to cut down on concussions. So, whats the problem with the NFL changing the rules, other than you getting a watered down version of what you want to watch? That's why it's selfish. Fans only care about the rule changes, because it effects them negatively.
Fans are stakeholders in this. We ultimately decide whether to watch or not, which in turn generates ad revenue, which makes everyone money. If fans don't get the same utility out of watching the games, then it is well within their rights to stop watching the games, which will hurt the bottom lines of the league and it's players.

Our tastes and preferences create demand, which is up to someone in the market to fulfill it. That in turn creates negative externalities on the producers who fulfill that demand. We as humans like electricity, I guess it's selfish of us for creating demand for coal so we can power our homes. We aren't thinking about the poor coal workers' lungs.

Every producer has made a conscious choice to meet the demand because the benefits outweigh the cost. That's how market economies work.

There is only so far the NFL can go in the name of protecting it's players at the expense of its product. If there is demand for a more physical game, and players willing to play a more physical game, in all likelihood eventually the market will respond to that.

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Old 10-24-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
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SP has quietly become one of the smartest people on these boards. Pretty crazy thing to say about 12-year old British guy but well said.
Sorry but I disagree. He still SP and says SP stuff
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Sorry but I disagree. He still SP and says SP stuff
And Jrdy is still Jrdy.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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Fans are stakeholders in this. We ultimately decide whether to watch or not, which in turn generates ad revenue, which in turn makes everyone money. If fans don't get the same utility out of watching the games, then it is well within their rights to stop watching the games, which will hurt the bottom lines of the league and it's players.

Our tastes and preferences create demand, which is up to someone in the market to fulfill it. That in turn creates negative externalities on the producers who fulfill that demand. We as humans like electricity, I guess it's selfish of us for creating demand for coal so we can power our homes. We aren't thinking about the poor coal workers' lungs.

Every producer has made a conscious choice to meet the demand because the benefits outweigh the cost. That's how market economies work.

There is only so far the NFL can go in the name of protecting it's players at the expense of its product. If there is demand for a more physical game, and players willing to play a more physical game, in all likelihood eventually the market will respond to that.
Obviously it's well within the consumers right to not watch. I never said anything otherwise. That doesn't mean wanting (for your own entertainment) the NFL to become more violent/physical, which would lead to more serious head injuries, isn't selfish.

And that's a terrible example. It would be more like the public rejecting safety measures made to protect coal miners, because the safety measures mean it might take a little longer for you to get the coal. Completely different situations and levels of selfishness.

At the end of the day, the players are getting paid and they choose to play. The difference in opinion comes from the view of what's acceptable and what's not. Clearly defending the players and supporting measures limiting injuries is the more considerate/unselfish of the two. Obviously that doesn't mean anyone that has that view is Jesus.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Sorry but I disagree. He still SP and says SP stuff
Has R4L added anything of substance to a SWDC thread, ever?
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Has R4L added anything of substance to a SWDC thread, ever?
Yes...yes I have. Plenty of times, I just stopped putting in any effort to this section years ago.
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