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Old 04-11-2014, 03:56 AM    (permalink
bigbuc
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Default Dion Jordan what's he worth this year?

So the rule that I see is NFL teams Over Value draft picks 362 days out of the year. Under Value them 3 day out of the year.

So with last years draft Dion Jordan went 3rd overall. Long, lean and mean. 6'6 and 245ish. Ran a 4.6 40. Now What I said last year was this, a very good all around LB. Can drop and rush. If you're drafting him to be a 12 plus sack guy you'll be upset.

Think a bigger Jamie Collins who went in the second round. He made a lot of plays in the later part of the year and playoffs with his speed showing up all iver the place.

Word has it that the Phins are looking to unload Jordan. And maybe Philly could be a landing spot for him.

With not a overall lot of pass rushers in this years draft could a team in the late 1st early 2nd make a move for a top 3 pick last years draft? Report has Philly offering a 2nd and Graham.

So I ask you guys... Only value for a player is what the market is willing to pay... WHAT IS THE MARKET GUYS?
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Old 04-11-2014, 05:00 AM    (permalink
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Ill trade you Orakpo for Dion Jordan straight up.
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Old 04-11-2014, 06:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
So the rule that I see is NFL teams Over Value draft picks 362 days out of the year. Under Value them 3 day out of the year.

So with last years draft Dion Jordan went 3rd overall. Long, lean and mean. 6'6 and 245ish. Ran a 4.6 40. Now What I said last year was this, a very good all around LB. Can drop and rush. If you're drafting him to be a 12 plus sack guy you'll be upset.

Think a bigger Jamie Collins who went in the second round. He made a lot of plays in the later part of the year and playoffs with his speed showing up all iver the place.

Word has it that the Phins are looking to unload Jordan. And maybe Philly could be a landing spot for him.

With not a overall lot of pass rushers in this years draft could a team in the late 1st early 2nd make a move for a top 3 pick last years draft? Report has Philly offering a 2nd and Graham.

So I ask you guys... Only value for a player is what the market is willing to pay... WHAT IS THE MARKET GUYS?
Not sure I see the similarities between Jordan and Collins to be honest but I do agree with the rest.

Jordan is more fluid with better length but Collins has better explosion and better functional strength. Bear in mind Collins absolutely killed the broad jump last year (11'7) and Jordan wasn't as strong there (10'2).

Jordan is more of a strider which makes me think he can run down the field with guys whereas Collins is more of a sudden athlete with good ability to break on the ball.

Neither player should be used as pure pass rusher IMO but Jordan is probably more capable of playing man coverage whereas Collins is probably better dropping into zone.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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Graham for Jordan???

So does this mean Jordan > Graham
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:23 AM    (permalink
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Hes a special player in space. Playing DE in a 43 is just the opposite of what hes best at though.

Manny Lawson as a 43 OLB but even more talented (and manny has carved out a nice career after not being the pass rusher in a 34 he was supposed to be)
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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Graham for Jordan???

So does this mean Jordan > Graham
No. Graham > Jordan > JPP.

Come on jvig, you know this.
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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No. Graham > Jordan > JPP.

Come on jvig, you know this.
Its funny that I almost put JPP behind both but decided to take a more direct shot at Thumper instead. Bless his little soul.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Word has it that the Phins are looking to unload Jordan.
Wait, so Miami traded up for the 3rd overall pick and now a year later they want to dump him? There is no way that is true.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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Wait, so Miami traded up for the 3rd overall pick and now a year later they want to dump him? There is no way that is true.
They also gave Mike Wallace $70 million and want to trade him. Hindsight is a *****
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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idk how much truth there is to any of these trade rumors. All the ones saying that Miami is actively shopping them come from La Canfora, who is historically ridiculously wrong about the Phins.

Most of the Dion Jordan rumors I've seen that I consider more legitimate are that the Eagles REALLY want Jordan but Miami has replied that he's not available.
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Old 04-11-2014, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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wrong thread
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.

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Old 04-11-2014, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Graham for Jordan???

So does this mean Jordan > Graham
The Phins turned down Graham + a 2nd, so I guess now it's Jordan > Graham > JPP > everyone else.
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Old 04-12-2014, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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Trading him seems completely irrational. But that's Miami.
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Looking back I still don't get why they traded up for him. If you ran a 3-4 I could get it. But when you're switching to a 4-3 and already have Wake and Vernon I don't get it. In theory I guess he was supposed to harass Tom Brady, but you're really trading up to 3rd overall to get a situational pass rusher?

In regard to the Collins comp. I think Collins is much better in coverage. He was a safety at first in college and then just grew into his body.

If they are seriously thinking of trading him, it's just another blemish on Ireland's tenure as GM. I'd be surprised if they could get anything higher than a 3rd.
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Old 04-13-2014, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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What people forget is that he wasn't a great prospect from the beginning. He didn't produce in college.

Pass rushers who start 3-4 years in college and don't have a ton of production there rarely become productive pass rushers in the NFL.

There are exceptions, of course, but by and large, this is a good rule of thumb to follow if you're a GM. Avoid players without, say, at minimum, 18-20 sacks in their college career.
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Old 04-13-2014, 09:58 PM    (permalink
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The league should just force Miami to put him on waivers. That should be the penalty for running a guy like him out there at 4-3 DE and wasting his talent. The guy almost never played in a 3 point stance in college, but they just went all ********.

Same for the Bears and Shea McClellin (should be 3-4 OLB) or the Packers and Nick Perry (should be 4-3 DE).

I really don't know how this stuff happens every year, but it does. Watch for some dipshit 4-3 team to draft Dee Ford now. Gotta get them square pegs for the round holes.

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Old 04-13-2014, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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The league should just force Miami to put him on waivers. That should be the penalty for running a guy like him out there at 4-3 DE and wasting his talent. The guy almost never played in a 3 point stance in college, but they just went all ********.

Same for the Bears and Shea McClellin (should be 3-4 OLB) or the Packers and Nick Perry (should be 4-3 DE).

I really don't know how this stuff happens every year, but it does. Watch for some dipshit 4-3 team to draft Dee Ford now. Gotta get them square pegs for the round holes.
Yeah, I don't understand the people in this thread. Jordan was mis-used last year. The Dolphins would be silly to let him go rather than figure out how to actually utilize his skill-set in their defense (which is pretty much any way other than how they were using him last year).
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Old 04-13-2014, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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What people forget is that he wasn't a great prospect from the beginning. He didn't produce in college.

Pass rushers who start 3-4 years in college and don't have a ton of production there rarely become productive pass rushers in the NFL.

There are exceptions, of course, but by and large, this is a good rule of thumb to follow if you're a GM. Avoid players without, say, at minimum, 18-20 sacks in their college career.
I agree with this guideline. At the top of the draft, you want to pick guys who have elite measurables and elite production. Jordan was basically a developmental guy and now Miami has buyers remorse.
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Old 04-14-2014, 04:21 AM    (permalink
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What people forget is that he wasn't a great prospect from the beginning. He didn't produce in college.

Pass rushers who start 3-4 years in college and don't have a ton of production there rarely become productive pass rushers in the NFL.

There are exceptions, of course, but by and large, this is a good rule of thumb to follow if you're a GM. Avoid players without, say, at minimum, 18-20 sacks in their college career.
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I agree with this guideline. At the top of the draft, you want to pick guys who have elite measurables and elite production. Jordan was basically a developmental guy and now Miami has buyers remorse.
Jordan isn't and never has been a pass rusher though. Just because he is 6'6 and looks like a DE doesn't make him a DE. Before the draft it was widely recognised if a team drafted Jordan to be a base end and look for double digit sacks every year they would be disappointed and that seems what Miami drafted him for.

Jordan has a blend of freakish size, length and athleticism. He should be used in a joker role where he can blitz, drop into zone and play man coverage. Whether people feel that type of player is worth such a high pick isn't really relevant, but if you think he should be the type of player he isn't because he was drafted 3rd will ultimately mean he will fail.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:10 PM    (permalink
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Jordan isn't and never has been a pass rusher though. Just because he is 6'6 and looks like a DE doesn't make him a DE. Before the draft it was widely recognised if a team drafted Jordan to be a base end and look for double digit sacks every year they would be disappointed and that seems what Miami drafted him for.

Jordan has a blend of freakish size, length and athleticism. He should be used in a joker role where he can blitz, drop into zone and play man coverage. Whether people feel that type of player is worth such a high pick isn't really relevant, but if you think he should be the type of player he isn't because he was drafted 3rd will ultimately mean he will fail.
you shouldn't draft guys in the top-5 or even top-10 if they JUST have "freakish size and athleticism".

If you're taking any player with that high a pick, he really should have both production AND physical tools. If you go for the raw guy, maybe 1 in 50 times you will hit, whereas if you go for tools + production, your hit rate is much higher.

90% of the elite pass rusher guys in the history of the NFL were usually the high-production guys in college.

And look at a guy like Jason Pierre Paul who is always touted as the "raw guy who became elite in NFL" - he's had ONE good year. He could just as easily still be a one-year wonder who doesn't amount to much over the course of his entire career. He hasn't done much since 2011 and the jury is still out as to whether or not he'll be remember for more than that.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Saying Jordan wasn't productive at Oregon is simply nuts. And you're still trying to compare him to pass rushers, which means you're still failing really hard.

I thought Miami was mistaken to trade up to get him (especially when they needed an LT and put themselves in a position to get the best of that bunch), but Jordan was definitely worthy of being a Top 10 pick in that draft.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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He never showed good pass rushing ability. I think his best spot is as a 4-3 SAM.
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I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.
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Old 04-14-2014, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Saying Jordan wasn't productive at Oregon is simply nuts. And you're still trying to compare him to pass rushers, which means you're still failing really hard.

I thought Miami was mistaken to trade up to get him (especially when they needed an LT and put themselves in a position to get the best of that bunch), but Jordan was definitely worthy of being a Top 10 pick in that draft.
If you draft a guy in the top-5 as a LB or DE, he needs to be an elite pass rusher. Simple as that. Picks are too valuable that high, and non-pass rushing guys (like just cover guys or just run-stopping guys) can be too easily found elsehwere in the draft or free agency.

The rarest thing in the NFL (outside of QB position) is the elite pass rusher who can also play the run well. It takes special physical tools and instinct, and these guys usually are also highly productive in college. Think Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Bruce Smith, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, etc.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:59 AM    (permalink
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If you draft a guy in the top-5 as a LB or DE, he needs to be an elite pass rusher. Simple as that. Picks are too valuable that high, and non-pass rushing guys (like just cover guys or just run-stopping guys) can be too easily found elsehwere in the draft or free agency.

The rarest thing in the NFL (outside of QB position) is the elite pass rusher who can also play the run well. It takes special physical tools and instinct, and these guys usually are also highly productive in college. Think Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Michael Strahan, Bruce Smith, Jared Allen, Julius Peppers, etc.
That's all fine if you believe you should aim for certain positions in the top 5-10 and in a sense I do agree. However, Jordan offers the entire defense flexibility with the myriad of things he can or can potentially do.

You have a guy who can stand up as a LB and blitz off the edge or up the middle while also dropping into coverage. If you need to have a bigger guy in man coverage against some of the athletic TEs then Jordan can do that. He can disrupt crossers going over the middle.

Once again if you don't think that type of guy is worth that high a pick then fine, but Jordan can't be blamed for not being an elite pass rusher because that's not what he is. The Dolphins should be blamed for trying to force a round peg into a square hole with this one
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Old 04-16-2014, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Why do people still argue with Thumper?
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