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Old 10-20-2013, 10:26 PM    (permalink
SolidGold
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Troy Smith? U srs bruh?
Yah bruh I am
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:50 PM    (permalink
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Yah bruh I am


Is all I got for that. Boyd is much better than Smith was.
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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We're living in an age where Brandon Weeden, Christian Ponder, and Tim Tebow are first-round picks, I'd be shocked if Boyd and Hundley didn't end up there.
This is such a dumb comment. It says you've been on this site since 2005. Last year there was ONE single QB that went in round 1 (EJ Manuel), and even he went a little too high. Kyle Boller was less deserving of Tim Tebow to go in round one. He went that high because he could throw the ball 50 yards on one knee. That is the only thing that got him drafted. There have been average talents every year at the QB position that get over-drafted. But since 2005 the list of average QBs to go in round 1 are:

Alex Smith, Utah
Jason Campbell, Auburn
Matt Leinart, USC
Brady Quinn, Notre Dame
Mark Sanchez, USC
Josh Freeman, Kansas State
Sam Bradford, Oklahoma
Tim Tebow, Florida
Jake Locker, Washington
Christian Ponder, Florida State
Blaine Gabbert, Missouri
Brandon Weeden, Oklahoma State
EJ Manuel, Florida State

Most of those guys were physically limited with low ceilings, but were good at the college level: overachiever types. But right on down the line those guys either had limited physical tools, or they had the physical tools but lacked consistency, had poor / streaky accuracy or questions regarding performance: underachievers.

Then there have been a slew of guys - especially lately - that have fallen into rounds 2 and 3 of the draft because they were limited physically and / or inconsistent, but had a lot of first round hype.

Kellen Clemens, Oregon
Kevin Kolb, Houston
John Beck, BYU
Drew Stanton, Michigan State
Brian Brohm, Louisville
Chad Henne, Michigan
Jimmy Clausen, Notre Dame
Colt McCoy, Texas
Andy Dalton, TCU
Colin Kapernick, Nevada
Ryan Mallet, Arkansas
Brock Osweiler, Arizona State
Russell Wilson, Nebraska
Nick Foles, Arizona
Geno Smith, West Virginia
Mike Glennon, NC State
Matt Barkley, USC


The vast majority of those guys had first round hype throughout much of the pre-draft process. Some were even penciled in as future 1st overall picks.


If anything, we're seeing more and more QBs - especially high profile QBs - fall in the draft. It happened to Rodgers in 2005, but that was expected pending on who went first overall because the rest of the teams were all set at QB (not joking), but that was a bit of an anomaly. High profile QBs sliding in round 1 didn't start to become a trend until it happened to Brady Quinn. Now it's becoming commonplace. Most notably with Jimmy Clausen, Matt Barkley and Geno Smith... where their stocks plummeted.

I think we are seeing teams still making desperate attempts at finding a QB, but the critique on QBs seems to have increased and teams are making better, less risky decisions at the QB position (allowing them to fall to rounds 2 or 3 and making better choices). Of course every year is different and certain teams get more and more desperate for a QB, but it seems like teams are passing on mediocre QBs in favor of the better position player available. That's what I've noticed.

This whole "we're living in an age where Tim Tebow can go in round one, so that means any QB with any hint of talent can do the same." That's just not true. The Broncos were probably the only team that was willing to make that mistake. It's not an indictment on the league. Teams - across the board - have been drafting much better. There's less and less first round bombs in round 1. Of course it's always going to happen, but teams have been drafting very well as of late. And a lot of teams have placed greater importance on character / work ethic. Teams have realized the importance of drafting a franchise QB and the importance of being right in Round 1 about a guy who doesn't quite fit the bill. 2011 has been the only draft in the last four or five years where teams took a slew of physically limited or risky QBs high in round 1.

This draft has a bunch of pretenders that will get exposed. There might be 4 QBs who go in Round 1, but that's because this class has some serious talent. And depth.
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I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

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Old 10-22-2013, 09:52 PM    (permalink
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Great responses, guys!



The reason I asked the question, is for my beloved Bucs. We're likely in the market for a QB this spring, and given the loads of talent on the DL and at OT that could be had with a very high first round pick, it made me start thinking about the possibility of taking a second tier QB later and taking advantage of the quality elsewhere in Round 1. I think that, as it doesn't seem that we'll be ahead of Jacksonville, who will most definitely take the top QB out there.



Thanks again..... it's cleared up my thoughts a bit!
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:18 PM    (permalink
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So.... the question is really twofold. First.... who do we see shaking out as the first and second rounders of this group, and second.... how big a gap is there between the first round grades and the second round grades?

Teddy Bridgewater, UL
Tahj Boyd, Clem
Derek Carr, Fresno
David Fales, SDSU
Johnny Manziel, TAMU
AJ McCarron, Alabama
Zach Mettenberger, LSU
Stephen Morris, UM
Aaron Murray, UGA
Keith Price, UW
Teddy Bridgewater looks like a legitimate Top 10 prospect to me. I can't see anything getting in the way of him being drafted in the top two or three picks. He should be an above average QB at the pro level. He's a very solid prospect. The one draw back I have: The game is a little too easy. Louisville is just too good of an offensive team with too much talent in comparison to the defenses they play. He did look great against Florida in the Bowl game last year. Solid physical tools: really accurate, only average arm strength, great poise in the pocket, very well coached, moves well in the pocket and he seems like he's very smart. Makes good decisions. Not much to not like about him. He's what is called a "clean" prospect.

Tahj Boyd has numerous flaws in his game. His pocket presence and feel for the game is terrible. He takes way too many sacks and never sees pressure coming. I also think his lack of height shows up on tape with how deep he sits in the pocket. He has a lot of arm talent, but I just don't see his game translating to the next level. His footwork is bad and leads to really bad ball placement or some bad throws. I don't think he handles pressure well at all, and he takes a beating with his running style. I think he's a career backup that shouldn't be touched before Round 4. I would be surprised to see him go before that. I think he's more of a 5th Round prospect.

Derek Carr is not a Top 10 QB in this class. He's an UDFA type. I can say that with confidence. And I've only watched one game of his games (Oregon last year). After the 1st QT I felt like I could do a complete scouting report on him. His poise in the pocket is utterly dreadful. He plays scared. He plays like he can't keep his eyes off the pass rush. If he can't get rid of the ball quickly or feels any bit of pressure, he's ready to lay down and curl up into the fetal position. His footwork is terrible. He has to throw off his back foot at least 50% of the time. His issues are psychological and they destroy any chance he might have had at success. I could talk about the few strengths he might have, but it's pointless because he's terrified to stand in the pocket and make a read, or go through progressions, which he absolutely does not do. He looks right, throws right. Throws into traffic, doesn't see guys dropping into zones, awful decisions, forced throws, terribly inaccurate... It's just awful. There's no reason for him to even be on this list. He has no future in the NFL. I know nothing about him other than his brother being a formed #1 draft pick. Which makes me think that is the only reason why people are talking about him. It happened to Jordan Palmer. Seems like a nearly identical case. Scouting him is a waste of time. Using a draft pick on him is a waste of a draft pick. He has no future at all. If he has a future in the NFL it's as a punter. This will be the first, only and last time I ever talk about Derek Carr.

I've already talked about Johnny Manziel pretty in depth in the thread on this site about him. I think he's way too talented to fall out of the 1st Round. I'd be surprised if he fell out of the Top 15. Is he undersized? Yes. Does he have a strong arm? No, not really. And that is usually a recipe for disaster at the QB position, but my gut tells me that he's going to be a very good pro despite those concerns. He's been the best collage football player in the country for two straight years. He does things he won't be able to get away with at the next level, but I think a lot of NFL teams are going to be won over with his competitive nature, quick release, good accuracy and raw playmaking ability. There's enough reasons for him to be a second or third round pick, but in the end I think a few teams will see the reward potential. He's probably my favorite player in this draft. I recognize the bust potential, but I think he's the exception to the rule. If he was 6'3'' then he'd be the best player in this draft. My logic says he's bound to disappoint, but my gut tells me that he's a Top 10 prospect. I'd take Bridgewater ahead of him. I see Manziel the same way I viewed Reggie Bush when he was a prospect. The flaws are glaring. They're obvious and they are detrimental at the next level for respective positions, but the wow factor pushes me over and forces me to downplay the negatives. Maybe - like Bush - I'm overrating his wow factor / playmaking ability.

AJ McCarron is your typical third or fourth round prospect from the big, powerhouse school loaded with talent that lacks the physical tools or playmaking ability to set himself apart. He's a product of his environment. Game managers in college are bound to be no different in the pros. I'd think he'll be a career backup who you probably wouldn't mind starting in a pinch on a good offense. 4th Round prospect to me, but I think he goes in Rounds 3 or 4.

Stephen Morris should be a guy getting 1st round hype, but he won't go as high as his physical tools warrant. He's an underachiever who's wildly inconsistent. One minute he looks like a future star, then the next minute he's making dumb decisions and throwing interceptions that boggles the mind. He's at his best on play action. He has a good arm, but his accuracy is streaky. Some times he'll drop a pass in a bucket from about 60 yards, then the next throw will be 18 yards over a receivers head. He does an offensive line no favors by taking sacks and looking a little immobile in the pocket. I wouldn't touch him. I think most of his issues arise out of an inability to read defenses and go through progressions. He stares to one side of the field and doesn't look off defenders. He doesn't improvise and I don't think he gets more out of a play than what it's designed for. Throws into traffic constantly. Too many turnovers. I'd give him a 5th round grade because he does have potential, but I have no idea where he's going to go. Probably anywhere between Rounds 3-6.

Aaron Murray, from afar, looks like he should be a first round prospect. Great production, great college career and he orchestrates an impressive offense consistently hitting receivers at every level - short, intermediate and deep. But his physical tools are average. His arm strength is a problem and his ball seems to die deeper down field. He's also short, so he has that going against him. He is pretty accurate, seems like he has a high football IQ when identifying blitzers and finding hot routes. Good poise in the pocket. Solid decision maker who can lead an offense. I like him, but he's limited. I wouldn't be surprised if he had a better pro career than people expect. I like him. I think he'll be in the league for a long time. I'd give him a 3rd Round grade... for now. If anything, he would rise up my draft board.

David Fales is very similar to Aaron Murray from a physical standpoint. Fales has average size and slightly-above-average arm strength, but I think he's one of the most naturally gifted throwers in this class. His ball placement and accuracy is simply incredible. I do think his biggest hurdle will be handling pressure in his face, so he might need to redshirt his rookie season, but I really like his potential as a mid round steal. Might be scheme specific. Probably the most underrated of this group.


I'll edit this to add Mettenberger later. Still not sure about him. He's all over the map.


Of those guys you listed, that's my opinion on the ones I've seen thus far. I feel fairly confident in most of those and I don't expect too much to change.

Here are my QB Rankings (just from the group above):


1st ROUND

1. Teddy Bridgewater : LOUISVILLE
2. Johnny Manziel : TEXAS A&M


2nd Round

3. David Fales : SAN JOSE STATE


3rd ROUND

4. Aaron Murray : GEORGIA


4th ROUND

5. AJ McCarron: ALABAMA


5th ROUND

6. Stephen Morris: MIAMI (FL)
7. Tahj Boyd: CLEMSON


UDFA

8. Derek Carr: FRESNO STATE
9. Keith Price: WASHINGTON
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Originally Posted by Scott Wright View Post
I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
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Originally Posted by PossibleCabbage View Post
I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
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Originally Posted by bearsfan_51 View Post
iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
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Originally Posted by GatorsBullsFan View Post
I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
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Originally Posted by GoRavens View Post
Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

Last edited by BigBanger : 05-02-2014 at 02:22 AM.
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