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Old 10-20-2013, 08:05 AM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Default Buffalo Bills 1990's Best Ever with no ring

Not sure if we've had this discussion ever, or for awhile (forgive me if we have but I don't see a thread on it pages in....), but imagine today that any team, the Niners, Seahawks, Packers, Giants, or Patriots, Broncos, Ravens, Chiefs ..... made the Super Bowl this year, and next year, and the 2015 season, and the 2016 season. Four straight Big Game appearances?

That's unheard of.

My Packers won it in 2010-11 and then went 13-0, talk on ESPN all year of "dynasty".... and yet we still haven't made it back to the game now 3 seasons later and aren't favored to again.

That's what Machine Gun Kelly's team did in the early/mid 90's. With John Elway over there in Denver in his prime.

I realized the Bills lost to Dallas twice, the Redskins and the Giants once.
I still don't accept that Norwood choked the kick against lucky Parcells.

Hall of Fame Quality in Kelly, Thurman, Reed, Bruce Smith for sure.

Have we even seen a team make 3 straight Super Bowls, much less 4?
Give the Bills some credit.
That was a historic run, and I still blame Norwood for tarnishing what could have been.... kick is straight.
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:23 AM    (permalink
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...you know the Vikings did the exact same thing back in the day, right?...
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I'm sorry but youre still way too transparent with trying to force the Packers into every thread you make. Literally what the **** does the 2011 Packers have to do with going to four straight superbowls like the Bills. Like dude, calm your homer boner down a bit.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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I'm sorry but youre still way too transparent with trying to force the Packers into every thread you make. Literally what the **** does the 2011 Packers have to do with going to four straight superbowls like the Bills. Like dude, calm your homer boner down a bit.
I think the 90s Bills are a pretty good contender for a team that never won the SB at all. There are plenty of teams (like say the '11 Packers...' that won it one year and probably had a better team the year prior or the next year or something like that. Dynasties have missed years, etc.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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The 1988-93 Bills were a team that was lacking in chemistry and togetherness.

In 1988, after their AFC Championship Game loss to Cincy, Paul Maguire of NBC Sports couldn't go into the locker room to interview anyone because they were having a huge fight.

The next year, a team that was picked by SI to be in the Super Bowl barely got in the playoffs with a 9-7 record. They were known as the Bickering Bills.

On 104.3 The Fan in Denver, ex-Bronco DE Alfred Williams hosts a drive-time show with this annoying ***hole who goes by the name D-Mac.

A few weeks ago, he had Mike Lodish on the show as one of his guests to talk about the peanut brittle that Lodish was selling, as well as the League of Denial show.

They also talked about the team chemistry on both the early-90's Bills and those two-time SB winning Bronco teams. Lodish said that the chemistry on the Denver teams was much better.

I think that it was a miracle that the Bills got to any Super Bowls, let alone four.

What started their run, though, was a win against Denver in Week 4 of the 1990 season.

At that point, they were 2-1, but one of their losses was a blowout loss in Miami where Marv Levy pulled several starters out of the game early.

On the 90 Bills Missing Rings show, Darryl Talley basically said that he felt like a punk after that.

Against the Broncos, he said that he was afraid that Marv would do it again after they were losing 21-9 with eight minutes left, and Treadwell was lining up for a short FG.

However, it was blocked, Cornelius Bennett returned it for a TD, and the Bills came back to win. They also pulled out fourth quarter come from behind wins against the Raiders and Jets to go to 5-1. Those three wins, in my opinion, was the impetus for their SB run in 1990.

In 1991, they were about as dominant in the regular season as the year before, but they were steamrolled by Washington.

The last two years they went to the SB, though, weren't that impressive. They took advantage of a fairly weak AFC to get to those Super Bowls, and then they were mowed over by the Cowboys.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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The 1990 Bills were really the best shot at winning a title and one of the best teams that never won it. Mostly because their defense was actually legitimate that year to along with their potent offense. They actually beat the Giants that season in Giants Stadium. And in the Super Bowl they barely lost that game.
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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...you know the Vikings did the exact same thing back in the day, right?...
Four straight?
Wow...I grew up in Minnesota, and missed that piece of history.
Four straight, just like the Bills?
Hmm......

Rosebud.......
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I think that it was a miracle that the Bills got to any Super Bowls, let alone four.

You are kidding right??

What started their run, though, was a win against Denver in Week 4 of the 1990 season.

Debatable, but ok...

At that point, they were 2-1, but one of their losses was a blowout loss in Miami where Marv Levy pulled several starters out of the game early.

On the 90 Bills Missing Rings show, Darryl Talley basically said that he felt like a punk after that.

There was a reason for this which I will get to in moment.

Against the Broncos, he said that he was afraid that Marv would do it again after they were losing 21-9 with eight minutes left, and Treadwell was lining up for a short FG.

However, it was blocked, Cornelius Bennett returned it for a TD, and the Bills came back to win.

Ditto.

They also pulled out fourth quarter come from behind wins against the Raiders and Jets to go to 5-1. Those three wins, in my opinion, was the impetus for their SB run in 1990.

I agree with this more so than the Bronco's win alone.

In 1991, they were about as dominant in the regular season as the year before, but they were steamrolled by Washington.

The last two years they went to the SB, though, weren't that impressive. They took advantage of a fairly weak AFC to get to those Super Bowls, and then they were mowed over by the Cowboys.
No offense, but your first comment IMO is a joke. A team (the 1990 Bills) that lead the NFL in scoring offense, was 6th in points allowed and first in point differential with a +14 giveaway/takeaway differential, with a Hall of Fame QB, RB, DE, and Coach, not to mention a WR (A. Reed) who should be in the Hall as well as the best (in many peoples opinions aside from mine) Special Teams player in the history of the league, in addition to 3 other All-Pro's (Conlan, Talley and Hull) and 2 more pro bowlers (Wolford and Bennett) that year pulled out a miracle and made it to the super bowl??? I am not buying it...
I would say the miracle is that they lost the super bowl.
The other 3 years are different, but I am not sure "miracle" would be a good way to put it.

That stretch where they went 5-1 and the defense and special teams pulled it out was the spring board for that season I would agree, as they were the primary reason for those 4th quarter comebacks.

One of the major reasons Marv pulled those guys out of that game was to wake them up because they were arrogant and cocky, talented more so than just about any team in the league, but their heads were not screwed on straight at all, that game or in general. Out the night before the super bowl, having corporate soiree's a couple days before the super bowl type of arrogant. Marv had to do something to wrangle them back in. If Kelly, Thomas, Reed and Company had Hulls, Taskers or Conlans mind set, it would have been a different story. Talley was not the only one who took it the wrong way, but it seemed to work, at least for a while. While true they lacked Chemistry, their greatest weakness was their arrogance IMO. A problem they had during the entirety of thier run.

The Redskins had a great team that year, no doubt, had Buffalo not dropped 2 TD passes in the end zone in the first half (maybe one in the early 2nd half??), might have been a different story, but it was what it was. The Cowboys... Yeah, that was embarassing.

My .02 on your .02...
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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1997 Indians.

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Old 10-23-2013, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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...you know the Vikings did the exact same thing back in the day, right?...
Vikes went to 3 out of 4, and 4 out of 8 in the 70's.

Close enough.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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1977 Patriots.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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No one was beating the Cowboys those 2 years.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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Default 1990's Bills

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No offense, but your first comment IMO is a joke. A team (the 1990 Bills) that lead the NFL in scoring offense, was 6th in points allowed and first in point differential with a +14 giveaway/takeaway differential, with a Hall of Fame QB, RB, DE, and Coach, not to mention a WR (A. Reed) who should be in the Hall as well as the best (in many peoples opinions aside from mine) Special Teams player in the history of the league, in addition to 3 other All-Pro's (Conlan, Talley and Hull) and 2 more pro bowlers (Wolford and Bennett) that year pulled out a miracle and made it to the super bowl??? I am not buying it...
I would say the miracle is that they lost the super bowl.
The other 3 years are different, but I am not sure "miracle" would be a good way to put it.
Okay, if this team with all of those players was so great, why did they go 9-7 the year before? Why was Denver kicking the crap out of them at home until the blocked FG? It's because they weren't a physical team or a tough defensive team in spite of all their superstars (mostly on offense).

And, I agree that they were arrogant and cocky. That was probably the main reason for their team chemistry. And, as Lodish implied, they were also more individually selfish. That is why I can see that team imploding that year if they don't win those three games.

Then, in 1991, almost everyone would have been on the hot seat. Maybe they finally go to a Super Bowl after that, but there would be no guarantees.

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No one was beating the Cowboys those 2 years.
I think the Oilers had a good shot in 1993, and they would have played them tougher than Buffalo did in 1992.
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Okay, if this team with all of those players was so great, why did they go 9-7 the year before? Why was Denver kicking the crap out of them at home until the blocked FG? It's because they weren't a physical team or a tough defensive team in spite of all their superstars (mostly on offense).

And, I agree that they were arrogant and cocky. That was probably the main reason for their team chemistry. And, as Lodish implied, they were also more individually selfish. That is why I can see that team imploding that year if they don't win those three games.

Then, in 1991, almost everyone would have been on the hot seat. Maybe they finally go to a Super Bowl after that, but there would be no guarantees.
The Bills also went 12-4 in 1988. So the talent was there. Sometimes bounces don't go your way even if you have a stacked roster. That is just how football is. There have been a lot of teams that probably shouldn't have won as many games as they have and vice versa. Even if they had lost that game against the Broncos they would have only been 2-2. And Denver themselves were 2-1 heading into that game.

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I think the Oilers had a good shot in 1993, and they would have played them tougher than Buffalo did in 1992.
The Oilers could never get out of their own way. They would have never made it to the Super Bowl. Three playoff wins in seven years with Moon there. Houston just crumbled in the postseason. It was essentially guaranteed.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:01 AM    (permalink
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1997 Indians.

:[
That entire run of Indians teams in the mid-to-late 90s was unfathomable. The lineups were nothing short of godlike. If some supreme being could have merged the lineup from the 90s Indians with the rotation of the 90s Braves, they would have the greatest team ever assembled; I'm talking 130 wins a year, minimum.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:04 AM    (permalink
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That entire run of Indians teams in the mid-to-late 90s was unfathomable. The lineups were nothing short of godlike. If some supreme being could have merged the lineup from the 90s Indians with the rotation of the 90s Braves, they would have the greatest team ever assembled; I'm talking 130 wins a year, minimum.
Joey Belle.
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Old 10-24-2013, 08:05 AM    (permalink
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Joey Belle.
Wasn't even on the best of those Indians teams. That 99 team had the greatest offense of the last 30 years.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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The 'other' dynasty from the 1990s.

That loss to the Giants was painful to watch.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:33 AM    (permalink
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The 'other' dynasty from the 1990s.

That loss to the Giants was painful to watch.
The "other" dynasty from the 1990s was the Broncos. I know they only won two Super Bowls but both of those teams were elite as all hell and the 1998 team might be the best team period of the last 25 years.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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If it's a specific decade then yes, it has to be the Bills.

But if it's a specific year, then I would say 2007 Pats.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Okay, if this team with all of those players was so great, why did they go 9-7 the year before? Why was Denver kicking the crap out of them at home until the blocked FG? It's because they weren't a physical team or a tough defensive team in spite of all their superstars (mostly on offense).

And, I agree that they were arrogant and cocky. That was probably the main reason for their team chemistry. And, as Lodish implied, they were also more individually selfish. That is why I can see that team imploding that year if they don't win those three games.

Then, in 1991, almost everyone would have been on the hot seat. Maybe they finally go to a Super Bowl after that, but there would be no guarantees.



I think the Oilers had a good shot in 1993, and they would have played them tougher than Buffalo did in 1992.
Because that was the year before... They were are different team...
Seriously, your response is regarding the previous season?
"If the 1992 Dallas Cowboys were so good and had so many great players why did they lose to the Rams that year???" C'mon... Its football.

As for that "one" Denver game, yes they ran Bobby Humphries 34 times and were essentially more physical than the Bills in that regard, and executed a winning formula against that Bills (run the ball and keep it away from Kelly and Co.) team for 3 quarters, but unfortunately for them, as "physical" as they were, they could not finish, and gave up 20 points in the 4th quarter and lost in game, in which was changed on 80 yard blocked kick return by a "soft" superstar, then a pick 6 by a "soft" safety, and then that great physical Bronco's defense gave up TD run to the back up RB. Regardless, they won despite not being "physical".

Speaking of which, did you watch those 16 games that year? I did. They were physical and tough which is part of the reason they were 6th in points allowed, 8th in yards allowed (despite having an offense 1st in points and 6th in yards) and +14 in TO differential, soft defenses dont stop people from, moving, scoring or in addition to take away the ball, and they usually do not have the defensive MVP either. Go tell Ray Bentley, Shane Conlan, Carlton Bailey, Darryl Talley, Leonard Smith, Mark "I have this double helmet thing so I stop knocking myself out" Kelso, Mark Pike, Nate Odoms and Co. that they were soft. See where that gets you. Bennett was so unphysical he forced 3 fumbles that year.

I met all those guys and just about everyone else that year and many of them several times since, that defense was physical, those guys (the majority) were physical, which is a misconception about that team (that year) that drives me nuts. To say they weren't to me is ignorant.

Offensively the case is not as strong, but Kelly was as tough as any QB, and Reed made a living going across the middle where few others would venture and when he retired was something like #3 in receptions, Kent Hull, Will Wolrord and company were no slouches either upfront.

The issue with that team is and will always be their arrogance and lack of humility IMO. Which I am sure caused chemistry issues, agreed. They thought and acted like they were frat boys on pledge night, just about every night, particularly on nights when they really should not have been.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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If we're looking at individual seasons than the 07 Patriots are the best team to not win the SB.

If we're looking at collective groups, I think the 90s Bills are probably at the top of the list. 98 Vikings, early 2000s Eagles, 70s Vikings, the Air Coryell Chargers.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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No one was beating the Cowboys those 2 years.
I dont think so either.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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How about Chargers in 2000s?

Maybe not to the extent of '90s Bills, but Norv Turner's squad was among the best in the league for majority of the decade.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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If we're looking at individual seasons than the 07 Patriots are the best team to not win the SB.

If we're looking at collective groups, I think the 90s Bills are probably at the top of the list. 98 Vikings, early 2000s Eagles, 70s Vikings, the Air Coryell Chargers.
I'm still going with the 77 Pats who got screwed over by the refs in a playoff game in Oakland. They arguably had the best player in the league at 5 differant positions:

Sam Cunningham, FB
Russ Francis, TE
Mike Haynes, CB
Ramond Clayborn, CB
Tim Fox, FS
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