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Old 10-26-2013, 02:31 PM    (permalink
Scott Wright
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I think in this case there's a discrepancy between where Amaro lines up in college, and where will ultimately line up in the pros. At Texas Tech, he's in the slot often, but usually just ends up blocking or running a short curl or screen. This isn't really someone with the overwhelming athleticism or route versatility of a guy like Hernandez.
I think you are underestimating Amaro's athleticism.

In fact, I'll be surprised if he doesn't run as well as any tight end in this class.
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Old 10-26-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Mariotta would be a really exciting pick for the Vikings. Barr would be nice too. In all honesty, we need help at every spot on the roster besides skill positions.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:01 PM    (permalink
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with ASJ still on the board I'd rather he be the pick for KC
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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with ASJ still on the board I'd rather he be the pick for KC
Thought about a tight end for the Chiefs but highly doubt that happens since they just spent a premium draft choice on Travis Kelce. Maybe an option in the middle or late rounds.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Really? Are the Panthers starting linebackers in three years other than Luke Kuechly on the roster right now? Because I sure don't see it. I absolutely think Carolina will be bringing in one and probably two new outside linebackers sooner rather than later.
Thomas Davis? No. Chase Blackburn? Probably. AJ Klein? Probably.

Losing Beason was irrelevant as he hasn't contributed in over two years, and we have Blackburn to replace what he did offer.

Sure, I wouldn't be surprised if we brought in more depth this offseason. But considering going outside linebacker in the draft this year, particularly given all of other needs, would be a horrible, horrible move.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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So you're saying they are due... I could see defensive line as well but at some point in the near future the Bears need to bring in a top-level, starting-caliber young cornerback.
They don't have to do that at 19 though. Is Epkre-Olomu really that much better than say...Kyle Fuller? Justin Gilbert? In the 2nd?

I personally don't believe in taking a 1st round CB unless he's an absolutely elite talent ala Patrick Peterson. There's not enough difference between the Dre Kirkpatrick like upsides and the Casey Hayward like solidness to justify missing out on a potentially elite player at a more impact position like DL.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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That is such an irrelevant piece of information
Yet the GM of the Bears is the same guy that was involved in most of the Bears' drafts since they last picked a 1st round CB.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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Yet the GM of the Bears is the same guy that was involved in most of the Bears' drafts since they last picked a 1st round CB.
No he wasn't. He was only with the Bears for 7 of those years, and he was only a scout. But that's not even the point.

Past draft history doesn't mean ****. Extreme example, but from 1999-2011 the Colts didn't pick a QB in the first round; that didn't stop them from picking Andrew Luck. Less extreme example: The Lions picked Luther Ellis in 1995 and then didn't take another DL for 15 years. Then they took a DL in 3 of the next 4 years.

There's no such thing as "my team doesn't draft that position in the first round".
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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No he wasn't. He was only with the Bears for 7 of those years, and he was only a scout. But that's not even the point.

Past draft history doesn't mean ****. Extreme example, but from 1999-2011 the Colts didn't pick a QB in the first round; that didn't stop them from picking Andrew Luck. Less extreme example: The Lions picked Luther Ellis in 1995 and then didn't take another DL for 15 years. Then they took a DL in 3 of the next 4 years.

There's no such thing as "my team doesn't draft that position in the first round".
7 of those years as a scout + last 2 years as GM = 9 drafts since 1996 or 9 of 17 = most.

But yeah, my point wasn't that "my team doesn't draft that position". I had an entire paragraph that you took 1 sentence from. Emery has done a good job identifying this team's biggest weaknesses and making them passable to good. First it was offensive weapons. He traded for Marshall and drafted Alshon Jeffery last offseason. Then it was the front 6 on offense. He signed 2 free agents OL, a TE, and drafted 2 more offensive linemen. The Bears front 4 has the fewest sacks in the NFL. I'm confident he will address that early in the draft, at least. If he was going to take a CB in the first round, Desmond Trufant was probably BPA when he drafted in April. I don't think any of the CBs likely to be around when the Bears pick are as good as Trufant. Though admittedly, the need will likely be bigger for a CB this year assuming they don't re-sign both Jennings and Tillman.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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They don't have to do that at 19 though. Is Epkre-Olomu really that much better than say...Kyle Fuller? Justin Gilbert? In the 2nd?

I personally don't believe in taking a 1st round CB unless he's an absolutely elite talent ala Patrick Peterson. There's not enough difference between the Dre Kirkpatrick like upsides and the Casey Hayward like solidness to justify missing out on a potentially elite player at a more impact position like DL.
Wait, so now CB isn't a valuable position? There has been a growing trend on this board that no one should ever draft any position in the first round except elite linemen and quarterbacks. What the hell is going on?
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Thought about a tight end for the Chiefs but highly doubt that happens since they just spent a premium draft choice on Travis Kelce. Maybe an option in the middle or late rounds.
Well, that may depend on how well Kelce comes back from the microfracture procedure he had earlier this month. From what I've read the success rate is75 to 80 percent among patients 45 years of age or younger so there's no guarantee he'll be OK.

When Kelce was drafted, Moeaki was the starter and now he's gone. An area of strength before summer camp, doesn't look that way any more.

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Old 10-26-2013, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Wait, so now CB isn't a valuable position? There has been a growing trend on this board that no one should ever draft any position in the first round except elite linemen and quarterbacks. What the hell is going on?
Yes, because that's exactly what I said. CBs aren't valuable.

But no, CB is not as valuable as many other positions. The best CBs still allow plenty of yards. Richard Sherman gave up 634 yards and 3 TDs last year. Good numbers, but far from shutdown level.

Point is. If you're not getting potential shutdown level talent (and you won't where the Bears are going to pick in this draft barring more disaster) then you take another position over CB. Richard Sherman wasn't a 1st round pick. Neither was Charles Tillman. Tim Jennings. 3 NFC probowl CBs. Better off hoping for the next solid CB at 50, rather than taking one that might be just as good at 18. 1st round DL + Justin Gilbert > Ekpre-Olomu + whatever DL may be there in the 2nd.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Yes, because that's exactly what I said. CBs aren't valuable.

But no, CB is not as valuable as many other positions. The best CBs still allow plenty of yards. Richard Sherman gave up 634 yards and 3 TDs last year. Good numbers, but far from shutdown level.

Point is. If you're not getting potential shutdown level talent (and you won't where the Bears are going to pick in this draft barring more disaster) then you take another position over CB. Richard Sherman wasn't a 1st round pick. Neither was Charles Tillman. Tim Jennings. 3 NFC probowl CBs. Better off hoping for the next solid CB at 50, rather than taking one that might be just as good at 18. 1st round DL + Justin Gilbert > Ekpre-Olomu + whatever DL may be there in the 2nd.
What other positions are more valuable than CB? DL, LT, QB, then that's about it. You can't just say "I don't want a corner at 19 because there will totally be an awesome defensive lineman there and we will just draft Casey Heyward at 50." I don't get how you can argue against drafting a corner in the first because of value. There are plenty of impact defensive linemen that have been drafted outside the first round.

If you want to start citing Pro Bowl rosters, all three AFC pro bowl corners were first rounders and five AFC defensive linemen were drafted outside the first round. Also, Dick Sherman didn't make the Pro Bowl last year. Your argument is baseless.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that the Jets would go defense again in the first round. You are spot on that they Need another OLB, especially an athletic one with first rate Speed. Antwan Barnes did the Job early in the season but he is out for the year and not an everydown Player.

If they can't get a WR in the first round then TE or RB would be next on the list and with Ebron still on the board I would really like to see him on the Jets. Cumberland is coming along nicely but Winslow is most likely gone next year. Unless Zach Sudfeld explodes somewhere along the line, TE is a HUGE Need for the Jets as is RB where they have nobody who can be counted on every Sunday.
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:34 PM    (permalink
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Point is. If you're not getting potential shutdown level talent (and you won't where the Bears are going to pick in this draft barring more disaster) then you take another position over CB.
This doesn't make much sense because if you honestly felt this way you would never draft a CB. Why does he have to be a potential shut down type of talent? You mean the type of CB's that come out once every couple of years and usually go in the top 5?
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Old 10-26-2013, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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This doesn't make much sense because if you honestly felt this way you would never draft a CB. Why does he have to be a potential shut down type of talent? You mean the type of CB's that come out once every couple of years and usually go in the top 5?
Yeah, why take a potentially good corner when you can just take an elite DL?
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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This doesn't make much sense because if you honestly felt this way you would never draft a CB. Why does he have to be a potential shut down type of talent? You mean the type of CB's that come out once every couple of years and usually go in the top 5?
No. I would rarely draft one in the 2nd half of the first round. ...which is what I've said when u read what's on the screen instead of drawing incorrect conclusions. There are obviously exceptions to everything. I would have been ok with Trufant last year. I didn't see Kyle Long or anyone else on the board as a bigger difference maker on the OL. And DL wasn't as big of an issue going into this year as it is now for the Bears.
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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As a Rams fan, I'd be thrilled with Matthews and fine with Clinton-Dix. Very nice!
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:19 PM    (permalink
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What other positions are more valuable than CB? DL, LT, QB, then that's about it. You can't just say "I don't want a corner at 19 because there will totally be an awesome defensive lineman there and we will just draft Casey Heyward at 50." I don't get how you can argue against drafting a corner in the first because of value. There are plenty of impact defensive linemen that have been drafted outside the first round.

If you want to start citing Pro Bowl rosters, all three AFC pro bowl corners were first rounders and five AFC defensive linemen were drafted outside the first round. Also, Dick Sherman didn't make the Pro Bowl last year. Your argument is baseless.
I can't say that and I didn't. But in this case....I dont want Epkre-Olomu when Hageman, Anthony Johnson and Will Sutton are still on the board. And that's because DL is a bigger need for the Bears and the supply at DL is less than that of the CBs.

And sorry, Sherman only made All pro not the probowl.
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:40 PM    (permalink
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Jace Amaro? No Good?

What direction do you think the Pats would go?
I mean, the Pats' biggest needs for the 2014 draft right now are DL and Interior OL. Of course, if they don't pay Talib, things could get really bad in the CB department as well.

I don't see anything wrong with a TE if there isn't a quality defensive tackle or a mega-elite G/C to take in the first round...
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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For the Chiefs, I think it's crazy that you have Mettenberger basically falling out of the first round. The last couple weeks haven't been as good as the first half, but it's hard to imagine a guy with his tools, franchise potential, and production falling out of the Top 15 with so many QB-needy teams.

I can't see the Chiefs using that pick on a QB, though. They'll want to strengthen other areas of the team and use a later pick on a guy if they think he can beat out Tyler Bray (not exactly easy, by the way - Bray seems legit). They need to secure their RB situation above all else. If Charles goes down, this team could, not even joking, lose the rest of their games from then on.

It's hard to call TE for the Chiefs. They'll draft one at some point, but they've got Fasano, Kelce, and now McGrath. It's a very important position for them since Alex Smith won't throw to the outside or downfield very often, but they've got a couple starter quality TEs in Fasano and Kelce and quality reserve player in McGrath. Kelce's injury will definitely be taken into account, but that won't amount to a first round TE.
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Old 10-26-2013, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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I can't say that and I didn't. But in this case....I dont want Epkre-Olomu when Hageman, Anthony Johnson and Will Sutton are still on the board. And that's because DL is a bigger need for the Bears and the supply at DL is less than that of the CBs.

And sorry, Sherman only made All pro not the probowl.
If you simply think there is better value at 19 at DL than at CB then you should have said that.
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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If you simply think there is better value at 19 at DL than at CB then you should have said that.
I think Ekpre Olamu is a top 10 pick and clearly better than Roby. Not sure how that impacts the discussion.
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:01 PM    (permalink
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Just posted the second mock draft of the year!

As always constructive criticism is not only welcomed but encouraged.

However, please have the courtesy to explain the reasoning behind your opinions.

Let's do our best to keep this thread fun and informative! Now... FIRE AWAY! :)
What was the deciding factor on keeping Roby as the 1st CB selected?

Also I see you have De'Anthony Thomas slated to New Orleans. What is the difference between he and Reggie Bush in the same situation with the team because all I see is a Bush scenario all over again?
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:39 AM    (permalink
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I do love Vic Beasley but honestly the front 7 of the Jets is insanely good right now I don't see why they'd use another 1st rounder on it after going that route 3 years in a row already. Eric Ebron would be a much better selection (I'm not buying into Cumberland, he's been playing well but let's be serious TE is still a huge hole for the Jets). Even if Barnes isn't healthy enough for the 2014 season we have 3 stud 1st round rushers already in Coples, Wilkerson, and Richardson I just can't fathom them going to that well again. We need some guys who can catch footballs!!

PS- Boo on being the best team to miss the playoffs =P
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