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Old 04-05-2007, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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What about Lorenzo Neil at FB? Maybe he can give Hester a run for the money.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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You can say that Vinatieri is a good kicker and all, but other kickers can do the same thing. He is very clutch, though. Other kickers have more physical ability. I admit that Vinatieri is the best, but it's not that clear cut.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
What about Lorenzo Neil at FB? Maybe he can give Hester a run for the money.
:) I said that one before, there are a couple other good FB's out there but I think the consensus among most NFL players and fans is that Neal is the best at the position.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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:) I said that one before, there are a couple other good FB's out there but I think the consensus among most NFL players and fans is that Neal is the best at the position.
Im starting to narrow it down between those 2.

Its gonna be a position where theres not much emphasis on quality play. Because theres less competition and a stud can outshine his peers by an appreciable margin.

So far I have it as Hester at 1, Lo at 2.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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See, I still fail to hear anything about any of those DTs. I realize it's not the most glorified position, but it seems like there just isn't that much talent there. I looked at the stats at some of the guys you named and compared them to that of, say, Booger McFarland, or any other one....and they're all pretty much the same. Is there no dominant Sapp-esque player at that position now? Because it seems like there's not even one well known star there...
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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See, I still fail to hear anything about any of those DTs. I realize it's not the most glorified position, but it seems like there just isn't that much talent there. I looked at the stats at some of the guys you named and compared them to that of, say, Booger McFarland, or any other one....and they're all pretty much the same. Is there no dominant Sapp-esque player at that position now? Because it seems like there's not even one well known star there...
Defensive tackles can rarely be differentiated by statistics. What the good ones do generally can't be measured by statistics.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Hester is great... I didn't think of him. I remove Reed, and add Hester.

Bailey and Hester are now my two. Urlacher is close, and easily would be if he was more of a "coach on the field".
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Im starting to narrow it down between those 2.

Its gonna be a position where theres not much emphasis on quality play. Because theres less competition and a stud can outshine his peers by an appreciable margin.

So far I have it as Hester at 1, Lo at 2.
I'd agree with Hester at one, and Lo at two. Hester is clearly (based on last season) the most impactful special teamer in the game. Loneal is best at the position, but there are a few younger guys who are starting to rise up and chip away at his lead in the position. If we're doin special teamers, can I make the jump to Bellichek as a coach? haha
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Lorenzo Neal has been the FB for a littany of 1000 yard rushers. From 1997-2007, his RB's have rushed for 1000 yards.

1997: Adrian Murrell (1028)
1998: Warrick Dunn + Mike Allstott (1872)
1999: Eddie George (1304)
2000: Eddie George (1509)
2001: Corey Dillon (1315)
2002: Corey Dillon (1311)
2003: LaDanian Tomlinson (1645)
2004: LaDanian Tomlinson (1335)
2005: LaDanian Tomlinson (1462)
2006: LaDanian Tomlinson (1815)

Pretty damn impressive.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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See, I still fail to hear anything about any of those DTs. I realize it's not the most glorified position, but it seems like there just isn't that much talent there. I looked at the stats at some of the guys you named and compared them to that of, say, Booger McFarland, or any other one....and they're all pretty much the same. Is there no dominant Sapp-esque player at that position now? Because it seems like there's not even one well known star there...
It's also hard to judge DT by the nature of the defense they are part of. A guy like Jamal Williams on SD is a 3-4 NT, so he's responsible for two gaps whereas some 4-3 DT don't have the same kind of responsibilities.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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The truth is, every position has someone who's close to them. Every single position.

The only positions I can think of with a clearcut #1 who is lightyears ahead of his peers are Devin Hester for special teams (although you can make an argument that Pacman Jones was almost as good) and Vinitieri for kickers (throw Stover in the mix as his competition).
Which Running Back comes close to LaDainian Tomlinson. Since '02, there has been only one consistent player at the position. Meanwhile, Running Backs have come and gone at the elite level, LaDainian Tomlinson remains at the top.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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Which Running Back comes close to LaDainian Tomlinson. Since '02, there has been only one consistent player at the position. Meanwhile, Running Backs have come and gone at the elite level, LaDainian Tomlinson remains at the top.
While I don't think Alexander is as good as LT, statistically (except for last year where he was injured), Alexander has been just as consistent.

edit* It's espeically hard to give LT the nod, when Alexander was the MVP last year.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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The truth is, every position has someone who's close to them. Every single position.

The only positions I can think of with a clearcut #1 who is lightyears ahead of his peers are Devin Hester for special teams (although you can make an argument that Pacman Jones was almost as good) and Vinitieri for kickers (throw Stover in the mix as his competition).
the thing about Viniteri is he is they guy you want to kick the game winner. he has done it so many times that you just have confidence in him.

also i love stover, 3rd most accurate kicker in history IIRC (sorry homer comment)
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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Which Running Back comes close to LaDainian Tomlinson. Since '02, there has been only one consistent player at the position. Meanwhile, Running Backs have come and gone at the elite level, LaDainian Tomlinson remains at the top.
Just playing devil's advocate (because I'm a Charger fan I still feel LT is #1) but guys like Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson are clearly not as dominant as LT, but they aren't the same gap behind LT, as the next FB or KR is behind Loneal or Hester. Though I still feel LT has a place in this conversation.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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i really feel that champ is far ahead the other corners. he is just so shut down.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Which Running Back comes close to LaDainian Tomlinson. Since '02, there has been only one consistent player at the position. Meanwhile, Running Backs have come and gone at the elite level, LaDainian Tomlinson remains at the top.
You can make an argument for LJ the past 2 years. I don't agree with it, but you can make an argument for it.

I dont think that the difference between LDT vs LJ is bigger than Hester vs everyone else. LDT is up there though. Probably like 4 on the list.

What about old man Jeff Feagles? He seems to be another guy who is light years ahead of the competition.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Is it possible that Walter Jones is now superior and very much far ahead at LT? Discuss...
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Is it possible that Walter Jones is now superior and very much far ahead at LT? Discuss...
Na, he actually had a down year.


What about Jeff Feagles? He's so accurate with his directional punts, I never seen a punter outperform him the past 2 years.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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I gotta get going to take care of some things so I'll check back up on the thread later to see if anyone else had someone real good in mind, my top five though as of right now would be:

1. Devin Hester, KR
2. Lorenzo Neal, FB
3. Champ Bailey, CB
4. LaDainian Tomlinson, RB
5. Brian Urlacher, LB
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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Jeff Feagles *bump*
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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So if Walter Jones had a down year, who stepped up to take his place as the best OT in the game? Do you put McNeill up there as a rookie?
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Hutchinson is lightyears better than any other guard in the NFL.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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So if Walter Jones had a down year, who stepped up to take his place as the best OT in the game? Do you put McNeill up there as a rookie?
It seems like a bunch of names get thrown into the same category. Jones, Pace, I liked Jamal Brown this year, McNeil did well, the guy from Cinncy (im forgetting his name right now).

Theres too many names that performed at a close level this past year.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Hutchinson is lightyears better than any other guard in the NFL.
Wrong. Shawn Andrews, Chris Snee, Logan Mankins, and others would probably disagree with you.
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Old 04-05-2007, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Jeff Feagles *bump*
i dont pay enough attention to punting. if my team is punting im normally pissed at that point.

its hard to determine punters because they recieve little to no recognition.
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