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Old 11-18-2013, 01:54 PM    (permalink
D-Unit
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Default Do you believe in the leadership of our players?

Ignoring the coaching staff and front office, do you think we have good leadership on this team amongst our veteran players?
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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Yep. The sideline passion from Dez fully showed we do.

Despite it being a positive passion Ware and Witten were immediately providing veteran leadership.

Do I think we have a "rah-rah" type leader? Nope. I don't buy into the fake persona anyhow though :)
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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What is meant by leadership, it's difficult to say as we don't know what goes on in the locker room or practice but they do seem to lack leaders on the field.
Perhaps Ware and Witten.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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I think it's more the guys at the bottom of our roster that are losing games more than the ones at the top. I don't think there's any leadership problem.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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What is meant by leadership, it's difficult to say as we don't know what goes on in the locker room or practice but they do seem to lack leaders on the field.
Perhaps Ware and Witten.
I think a leader has to show it behind closed doors AND on the field and vice versa. In order to command respect, he has to show it on the field. That's a given. However, do our leaders who show it on the field also lead off of it? Or are they more keep to themselves kind of guys? I just never had the feeling that guys like Ware or Witten (who definitely show it on the field) ever lead at a high level in the lockerroom/practice/film study. Hatcher has questioned it at times himself. ...and really even though he revoked it, he already said what was and has been very obvious, imo.

There are some who were not surprised when Witten and Ware got into Dez to tell him to calm down. Those 2 haven't ever shown fire and passion on the sidelines. They have been a part of many years of mediocrity and that's something that they have accepted. Over the years they have changed nothing to the Cowboys culture. Yeah they give their all on the field without question, but I think a real leader needs to do more.

I am definitely one who thinks our leaders have to do more.
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Old 11-18-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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I think it's more the guys at the bottom of our roster that are losing games more than the ones at the top. I don't think there's any leadership problem.
I think they need to inspire.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

We might not have the most talented guys at the bottom of our roster, but teams with good leaders have a way of getting past that.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:12 PM    (permalink
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I think they need to inspire.

It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.

We might not have the most talented guys at the bottom of our roster, but teams with good leaders have a way of getting past that.
You can inspire Jeff Heath and Jakar Hamilton all you want, but in the end they're guys off the street trying to stop Drew Brees or Calvin Johnson.
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Old 11-18-2013, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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You can inspire Jeff Heath and Jakar Hamilton all you want, but in the end they're guys off the street trying to stop Drew Brees or Calvin Johnson.
That's true, but this is a long time problem. ...and for the record, I'm not just questioning Ware and Witten. I agree that you don't need to be a rah rah type, but you have to keep people accountable.

Nobody ratted on Hurd when he was here. Nobody stepped up to Ratliff and his antics(the more I hear about the guy, the more rotten he seems to be). It's like we've had an unacceptable level of tolerance in our lockerroom.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:49 PM    (permalink
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If the owner/gm/coaches are going to let the players get away with things, the players are going to take what they can get. When the owner is in the locker room after a loss slapping everybody on the back and telling them its ok, it creates a losing culture. There is NO fear in our locker room and nobody has stepped up to say its not ok. There are many ways to lead, Jimmy lead by fear. He did not tollerate losing and players were on edge about it. Our players arent leaders because our management doesnt demand it imo. We desperatly need a coach that will, but I have my doubts that JJ will hire one.
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Old 11-18-2013, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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If the owner/gm/coaches are going to let the players get away with things, the players are going to take what they can get. When the owner is in the locker room after a loss slapping everybody on the back and telling them its ok, it creates a losing culture. There is NO fear in our locker room and nobody has stepped up to say its not ok. There are many ways to lead, Jimmy lead by fear. He did not tollerate losing and players were on edge about it. Our players arent leaders because our management doesnt demand it imo. We desperatly need a coach that will, but I have my doubts that JJ will hire one.
Pretty sure you haven't heard of the "White House" during the Jimmy days.
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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Pretty sure you haven't heard of the "White House" during the Jimmy days.
Pretty sure I have. No team in the NFL has a locker room full of angels. Are you saying Jimmy wasnt a leader? Are you saying JJ is? Is there a point?
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Old 11-18-2013, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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I would have easily said no in the past, but now that doesn't seem to be as big of a problem as before. Say what you will about how badly some people are playing, but they aren't playing poor for lack of effort. If anything the effort has increased to the point where they can at least be at a spot to make some things happen and win. Besides the Saints game they've been in every single loss, and that's with some serious lack of depth due to injuries.

But I know what you want to say. Romo isn't much of a leader. He's good at making plays when they need it, but he doesn't inspire the troops to go out on their shield the way Brees does. On the flipside, Brees is really the only QB I can think of that does that. Dez should really be that guy that inspires troops, but because of ridiculous perceptions about wide receivers vs. quarterbacks the media won't accept that. To the team it shouldn't matter, and they should let Dez yell and pump the team up more while Tony makes sure that everyone knows their assignments like he always does. That's pretty much how it was with Troy and Irvin.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:28 PM    (permalink
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Pretty sure I have. No team in the NFL has a locker room full of angels. Are you saying Jimmy wasnt a leader? Are you saying JJ is? Is there a point?
Yeah the point is you can stop glorifying Jimmy. He did NOTHING after leaving Dallas and that was WITH full control. This wasn't a thread to talk about leadership from coaches or front office. It was about leadership amongst our players.
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Old 11-18-2013, 06:41 PM    (permalink
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Yeah the point is you can stop glorifying Jimmy. He did NOTHING after leaving Dallas and that was WITH full control. This wasn't a thread to talk about leadership from coaches or front office. It was about leadership amongst our players.
And I said our players dont have it because our front office/coaches dont demand it. He had more playoff wins in Miami in 5 years than JJ's had in the last 17. So no. Our players dont seem to have very many outstanding leaders, I gave you my opinion of why that is. Whats yours? BTW Jimmy had FULL control here as well.
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Old 11-18-2013, 07:24 PM    (permalink
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And I said our players dont have it because our front office/coaches dont demand it. He had more playoff wins in Miami in 5 years than JJ's had in the last 17. So no. Our players dont seem to have very many outstanding leaders, I gave you my opinion of why that is. Whats yours? BTW Jimmy had FULL control here as well.
Not gonna let you hijack this thread into another Jimmy/Jerry conversation because you cannot let go of the past. They were a successful combination, but I think it's safe to say on their own things haven't worked out as planned for either.

Now onto topic... I think it boils down to a personality trait that our guys simply don't seem to have among our star players. We have 1 guy. Dez. Other than that, we don't have players that exude confidence. No swag. It's almost like the stars on this team discourage it. If they see it, they want to shut it up. ...and that mentality then spreads throughout the lockerrom.

In contrast, JPP today says, "We're going to put it on them, man. It's going to be a fight. It's going to be a dogfight. There's going to be a lot of blood spilled out there."

You might have a point about the HC not demanding it. Listen to Garrett's response... "We just have to focus on what we need to do," Garrett said. "We have great respect for the Giants, their players, their coaches, their football team. We have to go up there and play our best football."

What a wuss. It's no wonder Garrett never saw eye to eye with Rob Ryan. Rob would've said something to put the team on alert to step it up this week in practice and gotten them fired up to back up the talk.

So yeah, I think the personality of the team is a reflection of their HC and that might be a reason why our leadership stinks. But we have a collection of talent going back to Parcells years. so I dunno... then again, hmmm... maybe their attitude has changed due to the new leadership over the years... from Wade and now Garrett. Less is demanded of them and they only act like their HC wants them to act. Eh maybe both. Introverted personalities and a coach that doesn't get more out them.
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:21 PM    (permalink
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You guys are the new D-Unit vs. Newkwhy. lol

As for the Jimmy years, I can't lie about one thing. I'd take a team full of knuckleheads if they won multiple Super Bowls. It's nice to have upstanding citizens and all, but as a fan I would take the White House again if it brought back Super Bowls. heh
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Old 11-18-2013, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Oh look random off-topic arguing in yet another Dallas Cowboys thread...

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Old 11-18-2013, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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You guys are the new D-Unit vs. Newkwhy. lol

As for the Jimmy years, I can't lie about one thing. I'd take a team full of knuckleheads if they won multiple Super Bowls. It's nice to have upstanding citizens and all, but as a fan I would take the White House again if it brought back Super Bowls. heh
I agree. Drafting all RKGs is nice and all but you need your share of Dawgs as well.
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:08 PM    (permalink
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Not gonna let you hijack this thread into another Jimmy/Jerry conversation because you cannot let go of the past. They were a successful combination, but I think it's safe to say on their own things haven't worked out as planned for either.

Now onto topic... I think it boils down to a personality trait that our guys simply don't seem to have among our star players. We have 1 guy. Dez. Other than that, we don't have players that exude confidence. No swag. It's almost like the stars on this team discourage it. If they see it, they want to shut it up. ...and that mentality then spreads throughout the lockerrom.

In contrast, JPP today says, "We're going to put it on them, man. It's going to be a fight. It's going to be a dogfight. There's going to be a lot of blood spilled out there."

You might have a point about the HC not demanding it. Listen to Garrett's response... "We just have to focus on what we need to do," Garrett said. "We have great respect for the Giants, their players, their coaches, their football team. We have to go up there and play our best football."

What a wuss. It's no wonder Garrett never saw eye to eye with Rob Ryan. Rob would've said something to put the team on alert to step it up this week in practice and gotten them fired up to back up the talk.

So yeah, I think the personality of the team is a reflection of their HC and that might be a reason why our leadership stinks. But we have a collection of talent going back to Parcells years. so I dunno... then again, hmmm... maybe their attitude has changed due to the new leadership over the years... from Wade and now Garrett. Less is demanded of them and they only act like their HC wants them to act. Eh maybe both. Introverted personalities and a coach that doesn't get more out them.
Thats all I was saying, glad you agree. Rob Ryan is in the past as well ;)
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Old 11-20-2013, 08:17 AM    (permalink
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Nope, and these Will Allen quotes from yesterday relay much of what I've thought about our locker room post T.O. era.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ing-potential/

Quote:
“It was a very micro-managed atmosphere. Everything was heightened. Everything was very hyped. I didn’t feel the relationship and the bonding between players and coaches,” Allen said. “…I think that’s the rift that you get and everybody wonders why Dallas can’t win; why Dallas isn’t completing everything it needs to. The players are great. The players are tremendous. The coaches are some of the best in the business. You just need a cohesion there that allows players and coaches to really execute and do their jobs and it’s not something hanging over their heads.”
Quote:
“That’s not fun for anybody,” Allen said. “…We understand that it’s a business but football is a business. Winning is our business. But if we’re not a team, if we’re not together in it all, then we have nothing.

Our "leaders' for whatever reason don't bring this team together, and it's no wonder why we fold every time we face some adversity. No one really has each other's backs, I.E. when Sean Lee got destroyed by a blindside block by Tate last year and he danced right in front of Ware's face. Ware just turned around and went back to the huddle. We're not a team, just a bunch of individuals collecting a paycheck. As long as you say the right things and can avoid being the scapegoat for the season all is well.

Last edited by TheFinisher : 11-20-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
pocketaces
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Quote:
EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Dez Bryant's development might be the best example of Tony Romo's leadership.

Romo has an E.F. Hutton impact on Bryant. When the Dallas Cowboys' quarterback speaks, the receiver listens.

Romo's words -- the criticism shouted on the field and the calmer encouragement on the sideline -- played a critical role in Bryant regaining his composure for crunch time.

Romo yelled at the receiver after Bryant's fumble fortunately rolled out of bounds but basically killed a potential scoring drive early in the fourth quarter. Bryant's only response was to nod his head, knowing Romo was right.

"Oh, it wasnít good. ĎYouíve got to hold on to the ball!í" Bryant said when asked what Romo told him at the time. "Heís being a leader. Heís exactly right. He chewed me out. Thatís what heís supposed to do. He helped me get my mind back right, and thatís what I did."

Several players approached an obviously distraught Bryant on the sideline after that series, encouraging him to keep his head in the game. Romo's words resonated the most with Bryant.

"Hearing those guys, it makes me feel good that they believe in me and count on me like that," Bryant said. "When I hear Tony say something, itís a whole different ballgame. Itís a whole different story because I know he counts on me more than anybody. So I had to come. I had to bring it."

Bryant caught three passes for 32 yards, including two third-down conversions, on the Cowboys' 15-play, 64-yard game-winning drive, playing a key role in fulfilling the prediction Romo made in the huddle before the series started.

"Basically he was saying weíre going to go out there and win this game and weíre going to go home," said Bryant, who followed his leader to help the Cowboys climb back atop the NFC East standings.
Good to hear about our QB
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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GRRREAT to hear about that from Tony. He SHOULD get in Dez's face to let him know he can't be careless.

I always think it's ironic though. If a QB gets on a WR, it's leadership. If a WR gets on a QB, he's a selfish, lockerroom cancer and "me" guy. lol

The real story here though is that Tony kept going to Dez and THAT is how we are going to keep winning. If Dez is just a decoy or Tony doesn't throw to him when he is bracketed, then we're back to ground zero in their relationship.

Yesterday was wonderful, but we need to see this consistently... and that is a story yet to see. *Crosses fingers*
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